Is the Ranger the Hilux we've been wanting?

[Deleted member 9101]

I think I am unlike other Americans in that I do want a Hilux primarily because I want the simplicity. I'd prefer the infotainment center to not control everything, want crank windows and a stick shift is all. I don't have a GoPro and don't have a phone that needs syncing to anything. Blah. I do like having V6 and air conditioning. I was wrong to not have it all those years with the '91...

Other than the stick shift, Ford will sell you that exact truck.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Dont confuse desire with demand.

Oh...most people on this site do. They clamor for a Hilux... With out realizing it would already be sold in the US if Toyota thought that they could make a profit.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Other than the stick shift, Ford will sell you that exact truck.

Don't I know. It's what I'd buy right now if I'm honest. Lower end spec truck plus optioned locker. Perfect.

It will be very interesting to see how this generation holds up and what Ford does with the next Ranger generation. It'll be more interesting to see what Toyota does with the 4th gen Tacoma and new Prado/4Runner/Hilux and how much global chassis converge or not.

 

[nickw]

Lol, if us Toyota fans are getting 'soft' for wanting a dampened tailgate, what does that say about the average 1/2 ton (to include F-150) owner who has come to expect power-everything and 360-degree camera's and massaging seats?

Dampened tailgate is NOT an "offroad" feature, but it is a logical one...sort of like adjustable headlights (which Toyota was also an early adopter of). I'd rather have the tailgate fall slowly than slam down every time I have to open it...it's a peace of mind thing.




Yes, softer suspension plays a role in articulation, though oddly enough during a TFL tow test with the Tacoma and Ranger, the weighed-down Tacoma had more space between its axle and the bump stops compared to the weighed-down Ranger:



Does the Ranger truly have a manual shift mode? Or does the system only allow you to set upper and lower gear limits...there's a big difference. Manual shift mode is definitely preferred for technical offroading and hard towing.

Crawl control (for both the Ranger and Tacoma) is a gimicky feature that I don't care too much for either. However, ATRAC (available on the MT Tacoma's and many 4runners and Tundra's) is not a gimmick...it replicates the functionality of a mechanical locker by actuating the brakes. A mechanical locker is obviously preferred, but ATRAC paired with a rear locker will get you just about anywhere as long as you know what you're doing.




The 70 series isn't nearly as capable offroad as the hype would have you believe. Some well-known 70 series owners (Andrew St. Pierre White and Ronny Dahl) have made some specific comments about the 70's front axle articulation, or lack thereof. It's prized, first and foremost, for its durability.

The Tacoma definitely isn't in the same league as the 70 series, based on a number of factors. But for the IFS midsized truck category, it arguably has set the offroading benchmark...that's a subjective assessment on my part, but I'm definitely not the only one who has that view.

I don't know what it says about other owners, I'm saying we somehow dealt with tailgates that were not dampened for, like, ever and it was never an issue. I still can't get the image out of my head, two old school loggers with stagged pants, corks, red suspenders and Filson flannel shirts in the redwoods of Nor Cal, having lunch, their silver metal lunchboxes, big roast beef sandwich and cups of strong black coffee on the back of their 196X FJ45 and the other with his 194X Powerwagon complaining how hard their tailgates are to open or close....of all things.

Yes it has a manual shift mode. You can limit the gears in "D" which is a cool feature and in "S" you can manually shift it.

I know ALL about the 70....trust me. Offroad in the context of overlanding / expedition use is the discussion here, not rock crawling on the Rubicon, figured that was a given.

To stir the pot a bit:

Rear diff - Ranger @ 220mm (same as Rubicon) vs 4Runner/Tacoma @ 208mm
Crawl ratio - Ranger @ 47 vs Tacoma @ 36
Frame - Ranger fully boxed vs Tacoma C-channel
Front bumper - Ranger steel vs Tacoma plastic
Engine - Ranger higher torque / diesel curve vs Tacoma higher revving / car curve
Departure - Ranger @ 25.4 vs Tacoma @ 23.9

I am certainly not saying the Ranger is the end-all be-all, but if we wanna look at design metrics that point to a vehicle being better offroad, we can't ignore the stuff above and pick and choose where the Tacoma wins (which it does in some cases).

 

[DaveInDenver]

I don't know what it says about other owners, I'm saying we somehow dealt with tailgates that were not dampened for, like, ever and it was never an issue. I still can't get the image out of my head, two old school loggers with stagged pants, corks, red suspenders and Filson flannel shirts in the redwoods of Nor Cal, having lunch, their silver metal lunchboxes, big roast beef sandwich and cups of strong black coffee on the back of their 196X FJ45 and the other with his 194X Powerwagon complaining how hard their tailgates are to open or close....of all things.

Yes it has a manual shift mode. You can limit the gears in "D" which is a cool feature and in "S" you can manually shift it.

I know ALL about the 70....trust me. Offroad in the context of overlanding / expedition use is the discussion here, not rock crawling on the Rubicon, figured that was a given.

Those crazy hipster loggers.

They surely would have hated the move to a centered tailgate handle with rod linked catches to hold it closed.

We all KNOW a *real* pickup tailgate has two solid latches to hold it shut and keep the bed walls (with external cargo hooks) from splaying out.




ETA: Why they were made that way was really for a reason, unsupported bedsides just don't go the distance.

 

[nickw]

The 2010+ Prado and 4Runner use the 208mm (8.2") axles. The IMV trucks (e.g. Hilux) and some 16+ Tacoma use the 225mm (8.75") axle. The Tacoma uses an Eaton/Harrop locker (not the traditional Toyota e-locker) when equipped.

Not all Tacomas use the 225mm diff. The manual transmission models have the 225mm diff while automatic transmission models have the 208mm with the exception of TRD Offroad, all of which have 225mm axles. So the axles are common in the Toyota family to some extent.

As for the Hilux vs Tacoma axle, as I mentioned earlier the two trucks do not share the same track width so the axles are not likely to be identical. The Tacoma track is more than 2 inches wider.

Interesting, I had no idea, I thought all Tacoma/4runners had the 8.8 axle.

Something else to note, when the Tacomas first came to the states they had the R&P steering and coil vs torsion bar IFS / Pitman. At the time the Global hilux stuck with torsion / pitman and the Yota heads were UP IN ARMS, R&P is no good, not durable, the Hilux doesn't have it. Well, push to clock forward a few years, the Hilux went with R&P with Coil along with all the Land Cruisers. That was an instance where it was released in the US FIRST only to be adopted by the Global platform down the road. My point, I dunno....I guess the Yota guys are a funny lot.

 

[nickw]

Those crazy hipster loggers.

They surely would have hated the move to a centered tailgate handle with rod linked catches to hold it closed.

We all KNOW a *real* pickup tailgate has two solid latches to hold it shut and keep the bed walls (with external cargo hooks) from splaying out.

View attachment 532045


ETA: Why they were made that way was really for a reason, unsupported bedsides just don't go the distance.

View attachment 532046

Love it, I also REALLY like those hooks on the sides of the beds, those would come in handy. I still wanna retrofit one of these to a modern truck:

 

[Todd780]

I think different people have different understandings of the word "worked."
Someone who drives his/her truck to haul construction gear on a daily basis is truly "working" the truck...and he/she will continue to own that truck even if fuel prices go up.
Someone who drives his/her truck to drop kids off at school and go play on a dirt road every other month might be "working" their truck in some fashion, but it's not the same sort of work.

This is true. However, even if I don't work my truck everyday, a car will not perform tasks that I use my truck for on weekends or holidays.
If it could, I'd be driving a used Corolla to work everyday.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Dont confuse desire with demand.

I just want real wheel bearings (that you can repack and they last forever) and a live front axle with no vacuum/electric CAD.

No more of the $200 sealed for life delicate needle bearing BS that can go bad for reason at all. The fun ones are the pressed in ones, while cheap those are a bugger to change in a shop and forget about it on a trail. Gotta pull the knuckle off and block the wet noodle shaped thing in the press to press them apart and back together.

Love it, I also REALLY like those hooks on the sides of the beds, those would come in handy. I still wanna retrofit one of these to a modern truck:

View attachment 532047

You can get the side latches in a stupid handy package for nearly any truck. I wish an OEM could make a normal looking liftgate and forget the gimmicky tailgate steps.

 

[calicamper]

Lol, if us Toyota fans are getting 'soft' for wanting a dampened tailgate, what does that say about the average 1/2 ton (to include F-150) owner who has come to expect power-everything and 360-degree camera's and massaging seats?

Dampened tailgate is NOT an "offroad" feature, but it is a logical one...sort of like adjustable headlights (which Toyota was also an early adopter of). I'd rather have the tailgate fall slowly than slam down every time I have to open it...it's a peace of mind thing.




Yes, softer suspension plays a role in articulation, though oddly enough during a TFL tow test with the Tacoma and Ranger, the weighed-down Tacoma had more space between its axle and the bump stops compared to the weighed-down Ranger:



Does the Ranger truly have a manual shift mode? Or does the system only allow you to set upper and lower gear limits...there's a big difference. Manual shift mode is definitely preferred for technical offroading and hard towing.

Crawl control (for both the Ranger and Tacoma) is a gimicky feature that I don't care too much for either. However, ATRAC (available on the MT Tacoma's and many 4runners and Tundra's) is not a gimmick...it replicates the functionality of a mechanical locker by actuating the brakes. A mechanical locker is obviously preferred, but ATRAC paired with a rear locker will get you just about anywhere as long as you know what you're doing.




The 70 series isn't nearly as capable offroad as the hype would have you believe. Some well-known 70 series owners (Andrew St. Pierre White and Ronny Dahl) have made some specific comments about the 70's front axle articulation, or lack thereof. It's prized, first and foremost, for its durability.

The Tacoma definitely isn't in the same league as the 70 series, based on a number of factors. But for the IFS midsized truck category, it arguably has set the offroading benchmark...that's a subjective assessment on my part, but I'm definitely not the only one who has that view.

The 10spd gives you Manual shifting 1-10 but it won’t shift into in appropriate gears ie you can’t shift to 1st when going 40mph nor will it shift into 10th doing 40mph.

My Sequoia lets me choose 1-5 but has the same speed nanny when you press the buttons or pull the gear lever down.

So I don’t get this infatuation with Manual gear selection. As far as I know only low trim models of some CUVs lack the Manual gear choices. Like the basic Forester, basic RAV4 and CRV. Which case not really a big deal.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Just takes spending cash twice to get what you want. The 2005+ Tacoma bed is kind of a cosmetic joke anyway.




Truth is I'd probably be thinking cab-and-chassis if only it was an option...

 

[calicamper]

Other than the stick shift, Ford will sell you that exact truck.

Same with Dodge. You can even get the rubber floor pan for rinsing out the floor.

 

[calicamper]

GM offers basic Colorados also.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Same with Dodge. You can even get the rubber floor pan for rinsing out the floor.

Except for it's not a midsize. Unless you mean the Gladiator.

 

[nickw]

The 10spd gives you Manual shifting 1-10 but it won’t shift into in appropriate gears ie you can’t shift to 1st when going 40mph nor will it shift into 10th doing 40mph.

My Sequoia lets me choose 1-5 but has the same speed nanny when you press the buttons or pull the gear lever down.

So I don’t get this infatuation with Manual gear selection. As far as I know only low trim models of some CUVs lack the Manual gear choices. Like the basic Forester, basic RAV4 and CRV. Which case not really a big deal.

Even my newer SQ5 wouldn't let you get away with anything, it was fairly unobtrusive, but if I threw it in 6th, I couldn't lug it down to 5 mph. I think the ranger is fairly unobtrusive TBH, I was playing around at 30 mph and slammed it down to 2nd on accident, big driveline thump, redline, whoa, it works!

Played with my truck this morn on the highway. In "Sport" mode it auto-limits itself 1-7 with higher shift points. When in sport mode, you can manually select higher gears though, up to 10, and it will stay in that gear within reasonably wide set parameters. You can select 1st or 2nd from a standstill, once moving around 5-10 mph you can select any gear up to 7th. I was doing 15 mph(ish) in 7th, and it stayed in that gear until I was up to highway speed. Once up to a certain speed X, it will allow you to select 8/9/10. Once up to speed you have free reign from redline to 10th....in case you or anyone was wondering