Is the Ranger the Hilux we've been wanting?

[nickw]

1ton is 1ton everywhere on planet earth.

I mentioned “20 years ago” as a proportion for the different approach between NA and the rest of the world regarding 1ton truck.

A 2019 1tom truck outside NA are way refined machines.




Slowly..

The problem is the designation, "1 Ton(e)" doesn't mean the same everywhere and has largely lost it's significance here stateside. A domestic 1 Ton, 3500, F350, etc. has way more capacity than 1 Ton(e) Hilux....in most cases, 2x or 3x @ 10,000+ Kg towing and 3,000+ Kg of payload capacity.

 

[Buliwyf]

A ''one ton'' F350 can carry 2 tons, and tow 7 tons.

It's been slang for over 30 years in the US now.

 

[DorB]

Why would Toyota put 2.5 ton brakes on a 4 ton truck? Seems silly.

Opposite.



Slowly..

 

[Deleted member 9101]

1ton is 1ton everywhere on planet earth.

Lol.... Suuuure. Wanna compare a "one ton" Yota to a "one to domestic?"

 

[DorB]

Lol.... Suuuure. Wanna compare a "one ton" Yota to a "one to domestic?"

No..
You can always load 1 ton on a semi with14 ton spare..

There’s always a bigger fish.

The point is that for decent load capacity, NA are mostly limited to full sized trucks while out of NA you have other options.
Not just Toyota.


Slowly..

 

[shade]

Even though there's a small group of complainers (us), Toyota & Ford are smart to split their lines for the NA market. From what I've seen, most Tacomas and Rangers (honestly, all NA light pickups) carry little to no load for most of their lives, so tuning the handling for light loads makes them more comfortable for their use. Has anyone driven a new HiLux & Tacoma or new global & NA Ranger in stock form back-to-back recently? That would be a more interesting comparison to me than part numbers.

It would be interesting to compare the real world load handling of an old Toyota V6/AT Xtracab SR5 Pickup (HiLux in NA trim) with a 3rd gen V6/AT Access Cab SR5 Tacoma (or old vs. new Ranger) with both in stock form. Finding a Pickup or Ranger with a fresh OEM suspension would be difficult, though.

Run them both through a standardized course empty, again at their gross weight limits, and repeat in a marginally overloaded state. I suspect that the ride quality would be much better in the new version when empty, but as the weight increased, the old version might be just as comfortable. The new version would probably win on acceleration & braking, empty or loaded. Iirc, my '93 Pickup rode much better with a load, and my '12 Tacoma was smacking the rear bump stops with a relatively light load. Replacing the rear suspension fixed the Tacoma's shortcomings, but it's sad to need do that on a new truck.

 

[shade]

The point is that for decent load capacity, NA are mostly limited to full sized trucks while out of NA you have other options.
Not just Toyota.

I think that's an important point. There's no reason a smaller chassis can't be designed to carry a heavier load.

I can't speak to the strength of the frame & axle being sufficient to heavier than OEM recommended loads, but replacing the suspension on my Tacoma made it much more comfortable unloaded, and allows it to carry heavier loads with ease. Every time Toyota introduces a new top tier trim level, I keep hoping to see them release a model with similar improvements, along with an increase in payload weight.

If the frame & axle will support it, I see that as a quick way for Toyota to improve their standing in the midsize market. Even if a Tacoma Loadmaster model didn't sell in high numbers, once people learned that the same frame & axle used on other trim levels could support more weight, that might drive sales of those models, too.

 

[Dalko43]

Dont confuse desire with demand.

When desire induces people to spend their money, then desire = demand.

There is a demand for more capable midsized trucks in the North American market.

My f150 was cheaper than a similarly equipped Tacoma and it uses less fuel. It also obliterates the Tacoma in towing.

It really doesn't get better fuel economy, but go ahead and tell yourself that.

A better tower, I agree...

a 1 ton hilux overseas is not a 1 ton america truck, its a toy.

^This. Overseas, hilux and comparable trucks are viewed as the 1 ton work trucks, but here in North America we view 1/2 tons and 3/4 ton's in a similar role. Part of that is a cultural thing....in overseas markets, where roads are bad or smaller, contractors and owners want a smaller truck. Here in the land of big everything, people want, well, bigger trucks for work.

I will also note that overseas markets have a somewhat different perception of what is safe handling compared to North American markets...even if the Hilux were here, I doubt many would feel comfortable hauling a full 2k lbs in its bed.

 

[2025 deleted member]

When desire induces people to spend their money, then desire = demand.

There is a demand for more capable midsized trucks in the North American market.



It really doesn't get better fuel economy, but go ahead and tell yourself that.

A better tower, I agree...



^This. Overseas, hilux and comparable trucks are viewed as the 1 ton work trucks, but here in North America we view 1/2 tons and 3/4 ton's in a similar role. Part of that is a cultural thing....in overseas markets, where roads are bad or smaller, contractors and owners want a smaller truck. Here in the land of big everything, people want, well, bigger trucks for work.

I will also note that overseas markets have a somewhat different perception of what is safe handling compared to North American markets...even if the Hilux were here, I doubt many would feel comfortable hauling a full 2k lbs in its bed.

Its not about them wanting a smaller truck, its all they can afford. They would rather have a more comfortable fullsize.

 

[shade]

When desire induces people to spend their money, then desire = demand.

There is a demand for more capable midsized trucks in the North American market.

Demand has to translate to actual sales. Even with its undying spirit, Jezza's Bristol Beater would sell poorly in NA today.


There are those that wistfully winge about the indefatigable midsize truck of legend, and then there's the reality of the market. OEMs have kept their midsize trucks a step behind fullsize models, but with the NA midsize market heating up, maybe we'll see competition similar to what's been going on in the fullsize segment for years. With a good suspension and more power, the Ranger Raptor is a positive sign that at least one OEM is ready to do more than offer what are basically appearance packages once you get past a rear locker.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

It really doesn't get better fuel economy, but go ahead and tell yourself that.

You are 100% incorrect. How many 4 door Tacomas get 24-25 MPG at 70 MPH or 27-28 MPG doing 65? How many Tacomas have a life time average of 20.9 MPG? Hell, how many Tacomas can get 20-21 MPH doing 80? So, please explain how I "don't really get better fuel economy."

Before you question the accuracy of the display, I entered a correction factor and its accurate to with in a 1/10th.




Look at the bottom numbers, that's why I get such good fuel economy. With 3.15 gears I require very little boost to maintain a steady speed. This pic is a screen shot of cruising at 70MPH. At 65 it never produces boost unless there is a pretty long/large hill.




So, once again I'll ask...how do I not get better fuel economy than a Tacoma?

 

[shade]

So, once again I'll ask...how do I not get better fuel economy than a Tacoma?

Laziness on Toyota's part.

They know how to make fuel efficient cars. Translating some of that tech to a truck doesn't seem to be a stretch, especially since their competitors are doing it.

 

[shade]

I'm hoping the 4th gen Tacoma is something special. Toyota doesn't have much of a chance in the fullsize market, but they're giving away their midsize dominance.

They could also give up and go the way of the Ridgeline. I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me to see the Tacoma fully embrace a grocery getter, unibody design. That would open some space for a NA HiLux, though.

 

[doug720]

Demand has to translate to actual sales. Even with its undying spirit, Jezza's Bristol Beater would sell poorly in NA today.


There are those that wistfully winge about the indefatigable midsize truck of legend, and then there's the reality of the market. OEMs have kept their midsize trucks a step behind fullsize models, but with the NA midsize market heating up, maybe we'll see competition similar to what's been going on in the fullsize segment for years. With a good suspension and more power, the Ranger Raptor is a positive sign that at least one OEM is ready to do more than offer what are basically appearance packages once you get past a rear locker.

^^^Why one NEVER buys a used a Rapter!!!

 

[RedDog]

I noticed the base price of a new Ranger here is higher than that of the F-150 in the corresponding trim level.