Issues with Inka Outdoors
- Thread starter Pathfinder7
- Start date
FJexplorer
New member
Hi Pathfinder! We too are Inka Camperless and are in search for an alternative. We were looking at Wild Boreas XT as it is similar and tangible. I'd love to talk to you about what your experience is with it. Any chance you are on fb and do instant messaging?
Cheers!
I ordered a Hustler-X in October 2016. After consultation with Mike I upgraded that to the Venture OHV in late 2017. I took delivery of it in early March of this year. I think I was originally quoted 6 to 8 months to delivery. I got the same messaging for the reason for delays, but fortunately I finally got my camper.
I'm really disappointed to hear of everybody's troubles. In March of this year, I picked up my camper at the shop and got a tour. I'd say there were 10 to 12 campers in various points of construction in the facility. There were four to five employees around. I sensed production issues were still a problem, but I had no idea of the magnitude of instability.
I don't want to add insult to injury, but my camper is amazing. My wife and I have sat in it or next to it and just gawked at the quality of the construction. Yes, it was very expensive, but I feel like we got what we paid for which is a rarity in these days. I say this only to provide my perspective that I think Mike can design and manufacture an incredible project. It is extremely unfortunate that for whatever reasons, he couldn't execute on the business end.
I'm still dumbfounded as to how things turned out so badly. He has an incredible product with lots of demand as evidenced by lots of deposits. I think his fatal flaw was not keeping those deposits sacrosanct. The point of the deposit should be to keep customers from cancelling on him at the last minute putting him in a cash crunch and to serve to lenders evidence of demand. That alone should have given him a working line of credit to build a couple trailers at a time without having to dip into customer deposits.
He claims to have put basically all his personal assets and equity into the company. I know some of you will disagree, but I have no reason to doubt this. I think he actually was trying to be noble in honoring pricing knowing he was in the red on each unit. Unfortunately, the cash liquidity crunch/production hump/payables problem is far too common in manufacturing and becomes a death spiral if not careful. I speak from experience as an investor in a small manufacturer in Alabama.
Mike should have stopped production before touching the first deposit the second he ran out of operating capital. He could have then put on a dog and pony show to investors or lenders with deposits in hand as evidence of demand. If nothing transpired, deposits would be returned to disappointed customers but probably not seething angry ones. Now, no investor wants to inherit this mess.
I can only hope a phoenix rises from the ashes. It remains a great product with great demand. Mike needs to be left to the design/engineering and someone else needs to run the company. Which is precisely what he appears to be trying to accomplish now. Unfortunately, making people whole doesn't need to be part of that equation. I can only hope for everyone's sake that it works out.
I'm really disappointed to hear of everybody's troubles. In March of this year, I picked up my camper at the shop and got a tour. I'd say there were 10 to 12 campers in various points of construction in the facility. There were four to five employees around. I sensed production issues were still a problem, but I had no idea of the magnitude of instability.
I don't want to add insult to injury, but my camper is amazing. My wife and I have sat in it or next to it and just gawked at the quality of the construction. Yes, it was very expensive, but I feel like we got what we paid for which is a rarity in these days. I say this only to provide my perspective that I think Mike can design and manufacture an incredible project. It is extremely unfortunate that for whatever reasons, he couldn't execute on the business end.
I'm still dumbfounded as to how things turned out so badly. He has an incredible product with lots of demand as evidenced by lots of deposits. I think his fatal flaw was not keeping those deposits sacrosanct. The point of the deposit should be to keep customers from cancelling on him at the last minute putting him in a cash crunch and to serve to lenders evidence of demand. That alone should have given him a working line of credit to build a couple trailers at a time without having to dip into customer deposits.
He claims to have put basically all his personal assets and equity into the company. I know some of you will disagree, but I have no reason to doubt this. I think he actually was trying to be noble in honoring pricing knowing he was in the red on each unit. Unfortunately, the cash liquidity crunch/production hump/payables problem is far too common in manufacturing and becomes a death spiral if not careful. I speak from experience as an investor in a small manufacturer in Alabama.
Mike should have stopped production before touching the first deposit the second he ran out of operating capital. He could have then put on a dog and pony show to investors or lenders with deposits in hand as evidence of demand. If nothing transpired, deposits would be returned to disappointed customers but probably not seething angry ones. Now, no investor wants to inherit this mess.
I can only hope a phoenix rises from the ashes. It remains a great product with great demand. Mike needs to be left to the design/engineering and someone else needs to run the company. Which is precisely what he appears to be trying to accomplish now. Unfortunately, making people whole doesn't need to be part of that equation. I can only hope for everyone's sake that it works out.
Viridis Montis
New member
Thank you for your cogent and balanced post, coopdog. I agree with you completely.
I ordered a Hustler-X in June, 2017. The following November, I made a trip to Inka Outdoor to see the operation for myself. Like you, I saw campers in various stages of construction, staff hard at work, etc. Jeff gave me a full tour, and I was very impressed with the innovative design, engineering, and quality of the products. I spent several hours at Inka, speaking at length with both Mike and Jeff. In addition to gaining a greater appreciation for the quality of the camper I had ordered, I also came away with a sense of the character and integrity of those who would be building that camper.
I don't believe for a minute that Mike or Jeff are crooks, or that those of us who ordered, but did not receive, campers (myself included) are victims of some pyramid scheme designed to abscond with our deposits. I believe that mistakes were made, but that they were honest mistakes. Those mistakes, coupled with a series of circumstances, led to a financial crisis. I am not defending the decisions or actions that Mike may have made along the way, nor am I attempting to paint him as a helpless victim of circumstance. I am just trying to be fair. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Mike and Jeff are good people.
I ordered a Hustler-X in June, 2017. The following November, I made a trip to Inka Outdoor to see the operation for myself. Like you, I saw campers in various stages of construction, staff hard at work, etc. Jeff gave me a full tour, and I was very impressed with the innovative design, engineering, and quality of the products. I spent several hours at Inka, speaking at length with both Mike and Jeff. In addition to gaining a greater appreciation for the quality of the camper I had ordered, I also came away with a sense of the character and integrity of those who would be building that camper.
I don't believe for a minute that Mike or Jeff are crooks, or that those of us who ordered, but did not receive, campers (myself included) are victims of some pyramid scheme designed to abscond with our deposits. I believe that mistakes were made, but that they were honest mistakes. Those mistakes, coupled with a series of circumstances, led to a financial crisis. I am not defending the decisions or actions that Mike may have made along the way, nor am I attempting to paint him as a helpless victim of circumstance. I am just trying to be fair. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Mike and Jeff are good people.
ottsville
Observer
When "good people" make "honest mistakes," truly "good people" strive to make it right even if it means making hard decisions and personal sacrifice. Though Inka most likely set out to sell a quality product and not to defraud somewhere along the line hard and better decisions needed to be made, like maybe to stop taking deposits when lead times got out of hand. Obviously they were neither good nor honest enough, with themselves and others, to make those decisions.
I hate seeing good people get screwed, no matter the source. That's what those "good people" did.
I hate seeing good people get screwed, no matter the source. That's what those "good people" did.
Viridis Montis
New member
Ottsville, clearly Mike made some bad decisions; I do not dispute that. However, what has already been done cannot be undone, and all that he (and we) can do is move forward. I do believe that Mike is currently striving to make it right. It's a long shot, I know, but if Mike is successful at securing the funding necessary to revive Inka Outdoor, he will be in a position to refund deposits and/or build campers. If he is not successful...well, I doubt that any of us will be able to recoup our losses. Like I said, bad things happen to good people.
Like coopdog, I hope that a phoenix is able to rise from the ashes. I'd much prefer that good things happen to all the good people who ordered campers from Inka Outdoor!
Like coopdog, I hope that a phoenix is able to rise from the ashes. I'd much prefer that good things happen to all the good people who ordered campers from Inka Outdoor!
crazysccrmd
Observer
If he can’t come up with investors willing to finance a failed company he should be forced to sell everything he owns to repay his debts. Being a nice guy doesn’t excuse what amounts to theft at this point.
Pathfinder7
Member
coopdog and Viridis,
I don’t know you guys from Adam, but I find it odd that you are both new members who have joined only to comment on this debacle. It also seems that you are both in solid support of Inka and their practices. Viridis, you seem to be pretty calm about the fact that your deposit is likely gone never to return. I am not saying either of you are Inka propagandists, but you must admit the timing and similar stories is a bit sketch.
As far as the original intentions, I could honestly care less at this point. There is no fair and balanced. He used money from previous deposits not to secure materials or capital for my trailer, but to pay for people and equipment for people who ordered a year or more before. That is pretty much the definition of a pyramid scheme. I do not care if they were honest mistakes or not. They offered a product, took the money, and failed to deliver. That’s theft, pure and simple. You want to make it right? Great, get your rich family involved and sell off personal assets. Should I believe that $250k of deposits and another $350k just disappeared into thin air? I’m not a businessman by any means, but to take that kind of loss with this much demand and NOTHING (publicly) to show for it is the epitome of folly.
Do what you have to to get deposits back or answer for it in a civil and/or criminal court. Period. You stole from us, Mike, give the money back and it’s over. Inka is finished, it is highly toxic and untouchable by investors now because of years of mismanagement.
I don’t know you guys from Adam, but I find it odd that you are both new members who have joined only to comment on this debacle. It also seems that you are both in solid support of Inka and their practices. Viridis, you seem to be pretty calm about the fact that your deposit is likely gone never to return. I am not saying either of you are Inka propagandists, but you must admit the timing and similar stories is a bit sketch.
As far as the original intentions, I could honestly care less at this point. There is no fair and balanced. He used money from previous deposits not to secure materials or capital for my trailer, but to pay for people and equipment for people who ordered a year or more before. That is pretty much the definition of a pyramid scheme. I do not care if they were honest mistakes or not. They offered a product, took the money, and failed to deliver. That’s theft, pure and simple. You want to make it right? Great, get your rich family involved and sell off personal assets. Should I believe that $250k of deposits and another $350k just disappeared into thin air? I’m not a businessman by any means, but to take that kind of loss with this much demand and NOTHING (publicly) to show for it is the epitome of folly.
Do what you have to to get deposits back or answer for it in a civil and/or criminal court. Period. You stole from us, Mike, give the money back and it’s over. Inka is finished, it is highly toxic and untouchable by investors now because of years of mismanagement.
Pathfinder7
Member
I am on the Book of Faces. Join the group if you haven’t and I’ll be happy to discuss.
Viridis Montis
New member
Pathfinder7, you are right. I am a new member (although I have been reading the forum on and off for about 2 years), and I joined the forum specifically to comment on the Inka situation. I have never posted to any forum before, because, frankly, I'm not very computer-savvy. I use my computer chiefly for email and to research camping equipment. I chose to post to this forum because (1) it addressed a topic that directly affected me, and (2) I felt moved to share my perspective, even though I knew that my viewpoints might be met with hostility, based on previous posts I had read. Seeing coopdog's post gave me the courage to express my opinions.
Despite your suspicions, I am indeed a customer, who, like you, finds myself without a camper and several thousand dollars poorer. I don't know how I could prove this to you, and I'm not going to try. I do NOT support Inka's business practices, as you stated, because those practices are at least partly responsible for the very painful situation in which we all find ourselves. I support your right to be angry and to express that anger. I support your right to a full refund. I would prefer a camper, but that would be my choice, assuming such a choice were available. What I cannot support is the tone that some of the posts on this thread have adopted. One person criticized Martyn of AT, calling him a "shill" for expressing concern for both sides of this debacle. Another suggested marching on Inka with pitchforks and torches. Really?! I understand (or at least, hope) that the pitchforks and torches suggestion was metaphorical. Still, I think we would all benefit by keeping our posts civil and constructive.
We are each entitled to our own opinions and feelings. The purpose of my initial post was to share my personal experiences and to express my opinion that I do not believe that Mike accepted our deposits to deliberately defraud us, as some have insinuated. From a financial standpoint, I agree with you, Pathfinder7. Regardless of intention, we are out a bunch of money, and that isn't right or fair. You are angry; I am bitterly disappointed. I respect your feelings; I hope that my feelings will also be respected.
QQQ
Member
What exactly would you call it then?
There came a point long ago that inka knew they could not build campers and still accepted deposits, if that isn't deliberate fraud then please explain to us what it is.
Financial problems like this just don't appear overnight, they knew the ship was sinking and kept taking money and yet the guys who lost thousands of dollars need to be preached to about civility and constructiveness??, give me a break.
Would like to add that I don't have a horse in this race but I do find any type of excuse or defense of this company to be laughable at best. It is absolutely reprehesible the crap they are pulling on honest hard working people.
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zimm
Expedition Leader
how may down payments did he get in '17? what was the total production vs orders?
Maybe request the DA claw back/seize all the trailers distributed and auction them off for an equal distribution of funds to all investors. it seems those that received a trailer actually benefited materially at the expense of those that did not.
if someone is from out of state, and does not appear in court or willfully participate, just get the judgment so it haunts their credit until they do.
one cannot profit from a ponzi scheme, even if one is not the perpetrator of the crime. ignorance of a goods provenance (i.e.unwittingly received thru fraud and theft) does not resolve the issue at hand. The possessor of the tainted good isnt criminally liable, but they still don't get to keep it....
kinda out there on a limb for a fraud this size, but worth asking about, if youre about to get 4 cents on the dollar.
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Viridis Montis
New member
Hello QQQ. I'll give you a break if you give me one. Can we call a truce here? I don't claim to have all the answers, and I really don't want (or like) to argue. I'm just expressing my opinions.
You stated, "There came a point long ago that inka knew they could not build campers and still accepted deposits..." May I ask how you know this? I'm not trying to be confrontational--I truly want to understand. I put down my deposit in June 2017 and visited Inka in November 2017. At that time, I saw at least half a dozen campers being constructed. Coopdog said that he saw 10-12 campers under construction when he picked up his camper in March 2018. So, it seems that Inka was actively building campers as of 7 months ago.
You stated that you didn't even have a horse in this race. Well, I certainly do. I am one of those honest, hardworking people you mentioned who has lost thousands of dollars. As such, I feel that I have at least as much right to voice my opinions on this thread as you do.
As for "preaching"...well, you may have me there, QQQ, but I stand by what I said. I believe that civil, constructive dialog is always preferable. That is my opinion. Peace.
You stated, "There came a point long ago that inka knew they could not build campers and still accepted deposits..." May I ask how you know this? I'm not trying to be confrontational--I truly want to understand. I put down my deposit in June 2017 and visited Inka in November 2017. At that time, I saw at least half a dozen campers being constructed. Coopdog said that he saw 10-12 campers under construction when he picked up his camper in March 2018. So, it seems that Inka was actively building campers as of 7 months ago.
You stated that you didn't even have a horse in this race. Well, I certainly do. I am one of those honest, hardworking people you mentioned who has lost thousands of dollars. As such, I feel that I have at least as much right to voice my opinions on this thread as you do.
As for "preaching"...well, you may have me there, QQQ, but I stand by what I said. I believe that civil, constructive dialog is always preferable. That is my opinion. Peace.
QQQ
Member
I refuse to cut these jokers any slack at all, they stole from people under the guise of building them a camper plain and simple, that is my opinion.
As a small business owner I know damn well what my finances are doing, problems like this don't just happen. That is how I know inka knew their ship was sinking and went on like it was business as usual.
The owner even posted some ridiculous BS excuse right here in this thread yet there are still no refunds and no campers because it was all a big lie for a long time and only inka knows how long the charade went on.
Viridis, my apologies to you that my post came across as confrontational, but this type of "business" really pisses me off.
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Just Diamonds
New member
Good afternoon. I wanted to post this information as it is extremely relevant to this thread. I was in Gastonia, NC today for business and decided I would drop by the Inka Outdoor manufacturing location on Industrial Avenue. I was stunned to find a large number of trucks, trailers, etc. with equipment being loaded onto them. I asked 1 man what was going on and he told me that he had just purchased some equipment. I do nto know if they had an auction or they are out of business, but I did contact the building owner's website and the space which Inka occupied is now listed for lease. They had no information on the company itself that they wished to share. I also spoke with another business in the area and they told me that there has been little to no activity at the Inka business in the past 30 days at least. Where there used to be 5-6 or more vehicles, there has been one, or two at the most. Now it is possible they are moving, but even their own website lists nothing about a move. Good luck to all.