Isuzu npr 4wd

SkiFreak

Crazy Person
Where do I start?

What is the surface bonding area of two 5ft 8020 aluminum rails. And what weight could that withstand?
Wow! That's a very open ended question...
If you want to know the surface bonding capability of anything, you need to read, or know, the specifications of the product/s you intend to use. There is definitely no "one size fits all" answer to that question.
As @rruff noted, there are a multitude of factors that need to be considered, and without taking all of those into account it is next to impossible to know how much weight any bond would withstand.

When you are not a DIY builder sometimes that is not possible.
Correct me if I am wrong here, but as I see it, you are a DIY builder.
You are not buying an "off the shelf" camper. Despite not actually building the box yourself, you have specified many changes to be included by the manufacturer.
Not including reinforcements inside of the panels is simply a failing in project planning. Yes, I know... you don't always know exactly what you may want at the start of a build, but this does not negate the fact that reinforcements could have been included if you had planned ahead. You didn't, so now you just have to use an alternative method.

Having said that, you are not the first person that has wanted to add fixtures to a composite panel.
@Peter_n_Margaret has given one example of a tried and tested method that you could use. There are also numerous other ways you can achieve your goals.

This guy uses a 5 gallon bucket to catch the cold water until hot water comes.
As many others have done for decades. :)
 

gator70

Active member
Where do I start?


Wow! That's a very open ended question...
If you want to know the surface bonding capability of anything, you need to read, or know, the specifications of the product/s you intend to use. There is definitely no "one size fits all" answer to that question.
As @rruff noted, there are a multitude of factors that need to be considered, and without taking all of those into account it is next to impossible to know how much weight any bond would withstand.


Correct me if I am wrong here, but as I see it, you are a DIY builder.
You are not buying an "off the shelf" camper. Despite not actually building the box yourself, you have specified many changes to be included by the manufacturer.
Not including reinforcements inside of the panels is simply a failing in project planning. Yes, I know... you don't always know exactly what you may want at the start of a build, but this does not negate the fact that reinforcements could have been included if you had planned ahead. You didn't, so now you just have to use an alternative method.

Having said that, you are not the first person that has wanted to add fixtures to a composite panel.
@Peter_n_Margaret has given one example of a tried and tested method that you could use. There are also numerous other ways you can achieve your goals.


As many others have done for decades. :)


I am not a DIY builder and therefor there are limitations to what I can preplan for. We did a great job on the floor and a layer of frames for a superior subframe attachment.

No modification to the internal panel construction was available. I could guess the composite panels were purchased by the supplier from a separate vendor, to be used on 25 different models.

Pre planning for the external ladder was not possible.
 

gator70

Active member
To support more weight than surface bonding a alternative is possible. A welded fabrication off the subframe as a basis (or floor) to mount the bottom of the ladder could be scoped.
 

Peter_n_Margaret

Adventurer
If you glue long bits of aluminium (or any other material) to the fibreglass skin of sandwich panel, you also need to allow for the different thermal expansion rates (they will expand and contract at different rates with temperature changes). That information needs to be combined with the elongation before break of the adhesive at those extreme temperatures. Putting all of that together will provide the minimum thickness of the adhesive required before it is torn apart.
This can be reduced by including expansion/contraction joints.
Ignoring these factors can end in the structure tearing itself apart before you even leave the driveway.
In my current vehicle (built 20 years ago) I required some glue joints to be a minimum of 3.5mm thick.
My temperature delta T was 60C (-10 to +50C), you may need something higher than that?
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
 

SkiFreak

Crazy Person
To support more weight than surface bonding a alternative is possible.
For a ladder that is mounted vertically on a composite panel, the majority of the forces will be in shear.
Bonded attachment points should easily withstand those forces, assuming that the correct surface preparation and adhesive were used.
If internal reinforcement does not exist, bonding onto composite panels is by far the most common method in use.
 

gator70

Active member
Now that I continue to plan the last items on the habitat, I think about what I would do differently if I did this again. Nothing is ever perfect and there is always compromises.

I worked hard to get the total height as low as possible and still sleep above the cab. The total length is about that of a MB sprinter 170 ext. Yes 200 mm longer would have been nice. For a tall cabinet for hanging items. On one side and a bit longer counter top space in the kitchen.

I would have moved the roof hatch 150 mm forward. It is now center in the space.

The dinette floor could have been raised, yet the storage advantage would only be 6 inches.

I needed one large and one small MPPT controller, so two of the three over head cabinets above the kitchen are missing 50% of depth.
 
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rruff

Explorer
No modification to the internal panel construction was available. I could guess the composite panels were purchased by the supplier from a separate vendor, to be used on 25 different models.
What is detail of your panel construction? Skins, foam, adhesive.
 

gator70

Active member
Found the answer posted earlier. No panel detail: https://australmotorhomes.com.au/slide-on-campers/truck-mount/savanna-3-5/


~$47k full up in $US, is certainly a good price. I'm very leery of anyone not giving panel details, though.

Not mine or made by this company

That model has a Australian layout and mine is USA layout

  • This model is a full two feet higher off the ground than mine
  • More designed for a FUSO than a Isuzu frame
  • That model is not made for subframe mounting, rather flatbed
  • The truck cab clearance is much too small for subframe articulation
For example, I have no roof vent for more solar panel installation. I have three small side wall fans strategically placed.

I did use some design cues from that one.
 
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SkiFreak

Crazy Person
From my understanding... the original plan was to go with the Australian manufacturer, which I suggested was not an optimal solution, given that the whole layout was designed for a RHD vehicle.
@gator70 changed his mind at some point and went with a Chinese company, who built the complete camper to suit a LHD vehicle and shipped it to the US.
There are a lot of red herrings in this thread, so it is challenging at times to know what is actually his build and what isn't.

All that said, I too would want more information regarding the panel construction if I were going down this outsourcing path.
But hey... it's not my build. :unsure:
 

SootyCamper

Active member
@gator70 can you share the specifics on the 4wd conversion? For those of us looking to convert Isuzu chassis there's a lack of choice. So any info you can share is super valuable

I've spoken with RidgeRock over the phone and requested a quote via email with available options(havnt received it, its been a month). All I he told me over the phone was $29k for the conversion but really no real detail on what is included in the price.

What front axle is used? What transfer case is used? Is the rear axle kept stock? What gearing was used.
 

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