Long Jeep.....chasing unicorns

[MotoDave]

Yea I can see how it would cost that much to build a truck like ICON does in small quantities, just can't imagine every paying that much for any vehicle.

I figure you're a jeep guy, hence using a jeep based aqualu tub, but did you consider doing a land cruiser version? You're not using much from either so I don't imagine the cost it much different.

Hmm, I wonder if an aqualu jeep tub is cheaper than a FJ40 tub. Toyota tax and all.

 

[Metcalf]

I've considered it, I actually have a soft spot for old 'cruisers. I do think the jeep tub wins though for highline type front clips, tops, doors, etc. The LJ size tub is still rather well supported so getting a top and doors to fit will be an off the shelf affordable type thing.

 

[Metcalf]

Just a few random things and thoughts...

I gave Aqualu a call. They are swamped. They are still working on quoting what I need. I'm not too worried about it since this is a slow project.

I was working through some stuff on the rear suspension and how it impacts the tub design.

Basically. I want to be able to store a 40" tire on the rear floor. Since most later cj's, yj's and tj's only have a floor that is 36" wide this presents a problem. Originally I was thinking that it would be pretty easy to have Aqualu widen the floor out to 40". This would give me a little more space for the large tire. Working though the suspension design however I realized that I would probably not have enough room for the rear shocks to be outboard the frame, upright, and inbetween the inner wall of the wheel tub and tire. I would have to create a pocket for the shock and tower to the inside of the wheel tub.

I would be paying Aqualu to make the floor wider and then having to make a pocket for the shock tower.

So why not just keep the floor the stock 36" width and just make a pocket to the outside for the tire? The tailgate opening is only about 34" wide anyways so its not like I would be able to slide the tire out anyways......for that matter the tire would be trapped in basically one location by the shock pockets anyways.

In the end this change should save me some money. Honestly, making a 2" 'deep' pocket to the outside of the tub with a 20" radius will probably be easier than trying to cover a shock tower.
With the floor being 36" wide and the frame only being about 34-35" to the outside of the rail I shouldn't have any issue running the shock between the inner wheel tub wall and the tire. The tower should be simple enough since there is only maybe a 1/2" to 1" offset from the frame to the inner tub panel. Depending on how shock lengths lay out I might even be able to use the same shock tower on the front and rear. The front is going to be a coilover 2.5" I think so I would have a little extra room around the shock in the rear....or be able to swap to coil springs if I don't like the airbags as a primary rear spring. With the way the frame kicks different front and rear I think it might work out pretty dang close in height too. The front shock will probably be on top of the axle tube while the rear will be slide back to the rear for airbag clearance.

Isn't designing vehicles from scratch fun!

I've been researching some other fun things with this project too....

Adding cruise control might be a little more challenging that I thought. Basically it looks like you need to run a GM body control module on the newer engines to make it work. I think this should also allow the use of a tow/haul switch for the transmission programming too. With a full separate set of programming tables for the 6l80 you should be able to do some really interesting things like start/stop in any gear full manual control of the transmission. From what I have read the 6l80 programming is pretty dang good from the factory. If I have to pay to add the BCM for cruise the tow/haul transmission tables are just a bonus.

I'm not really after a super cushy vehicle here, just something slightly more modern than my dodge or flat fender. As far as modern conveniences go my list is pretty short....

-Windshield wipers
-windshield washer
-Cruise, oem level control, not aftermarket
-Tilt steering column, maybe telescopic if I can find a clean enough looking aftermarket column.
-heater
-defrost

-stereo. Kinda optional at this point. I do like the cheap little mechless deck in my Dodge but once you get a stereo in place and make it sound good the weight and complexity really adds up.

-GPS. For my adventures I think one of those larger baja style GPS units might be worth having. It would also display speed which could eliminate the need for a separate speedometer.

-Some kind of obd2 gauge that can read stuff from the engine computer.

-The last 3 things could all be provided by a tablet mounted to the dash these days too? I don't know how long it would last in a jeep, but maybe with the proper case it would be ok?

Fun stuff.

 

[AmericaOverland]

This is my LJ: in the photo without the mosquito netting, I'm in single bed mode, and in the photo with the netting, I'm in double bed mode. I've used the single bed mode most of the time, and I've used it camping at faire and on the rode to Ohio.

 

[wgyouree]

Very interested in this thread. My goals for my LJ are similar to your plans for your ground up rig. A rig that'll handle almost any trail, go hundreds of miles on pavement comfortably, and carry equipment and sleeping arrangements for those two week trips through the wild. I'm interested in seeing what you come up with, I might be able to use some of those ideas in my rig Checked out your Unimog camper thread too, good stuff!

 

[redthies]

Hmm, I wonder if an aqualu jeep tub is cheaper than a FJ40 tub. Toyota tax and all.

Land Cruiser bodies are about 10% cheaper than Jeep, if you compare 103" CJ8 body to 100" Stretched FJ40 body. The price difference likely has to do with the "step" in the hood cowl that is present on Jeep tubs. Having helped Todd finish up some bodies for an icon shipment, I can assure you there is a ton of man hours getting the tubs to a point where he is satisfied with them. That little step in the Jeep cowl would add many hours to the fab and finishing time.

 

[Metcalf]

Land Cruiser bodies are about 10% cheaper than Jeep, if you compare 103" CJ8 body to 100" Stretched FJ40 body. The price difference likely has to do with the "step" in the hood cowl that is present on Jeep tubs. Having helped Todd finish up some bodies for an icon shipment, I can assure you there is a ton of man hours getting the tubs to a point where he is satisfied with them. That little step in the Jeep cowl would add many hours to the fab and finishing time.

Don't you have to buy the cowl in addition to the tub on the landcruiser stuff though? That makes a complete 'tub' about 7100.00 for a stretched fj40. The cj8 bobbed tub which basically comes with the front cowl/firewall in one-piece is only $4200ish?

That would make the landcruiser about 40% more expensive for about the same thing?

 

[Metcalf]

This is my LJ: in the photo without the mosquito netting, I'm in single bed mode, and in the photo with the netting, I'm in double bed mode. I've used the single bed mode most of the time, and I've used it camping at faire and on the rode to Ohio.

Thanks for posting some pictures. It really helps to get a sense of scale.

I was thinking about netting the other day....and curtains. I am half wondering if something couldn't be integrated in to the soft side windows on a soft top. On the road, being able to pull some dark curtains over the windows to keep people from looking in when stealth camping would be very nice.

 

[Metcalf]

Very interested in this thread. My goals for my LJ are similar to your plans for your ground up rig. A rig that'll handle almost any trail, go hundreds of miles on pavement comfortably, and carry equipment and sleeping arrangements for those two week trips through the wild. I'm interested in seeing what you come up with, I might be able to use some of those ideas in my rig Checked out your Unimog camper thread too, good stuff!

Thank you.

I thought about using a LJ as a base for a long time. Once I got into the area where I thought I would need a different engine, transmission, transfer cases, and axles I just couldn't justify starting with a mostly complete vehicle to only not use most of it. I will admit that it would make some things easier, in the end I think I will be better off starting from scratch.

I looked LONG AND HARD at this LJ at easter jeep this year. It was one of the best built I have seen in a long time, it also performs VERY well off road.

http://shop.poisonspyder.com/Articles.asp?ID=285

Talking with the owner, he was wishing for a V8 and a better transmission.

My vehicle will probably be more basic than your off the floor LJ. I am planning some more modern conveniences, but mine will be more spartan overall.

Keep an eye on the build, hopefully you will get some ideas you can use. This will be a long long long project for me though, don't expect to see things too fast

 

[marshal]

sounds like you need a scrambler aqualu tub and to set the wheel base at 108-110" and drop a GM drivetrain/line in it. 6.5L and all.

boomshakalaka.

 

[Metcalf]

sounds like you need a scrambler aqualu tub and to set the wheel base at 108-110" and drop a GM drivetrain/line in it. 6.5L and all.

boomshakalaka.

The scrambler body has a little bit too much 'butt' on it for me, even with the rear axle moved back to the 110" range. I also need to move the front axle forward to fit the larger tires at the lower overall height I want. The LJ length tub comes out just about perfect for the 110" wheelbase in my opinion......it is also a little better supported as far as tops go than the scrambler.

6.5 as in diesel? Not what I am looking for really.

There is a lot of little tiny details that go into the combination I am planning on using. Its about the overall package, but not one part or another.

 

[marshal]

here is my friends scrambler aqualu tub with 116" wheel base, which mind you is JKU wheel base

thats a 40x14.50R17 KM2 by the way

 

[Metcalf]

Looking through some of the other pics it looks like that tub was bobbed a bit from full scrambler length?

The stock CJ8 tub is 24" longer than a normal TJ/YJ/CJ7 tub. If the rear axle was moved back to a position similar to a stock SWB jeep rear axle is that would be a wheelbase of like 117.5" with the front axle in the stock position. I need about 2" of front stretch to get the rear of a 40" tire to clear the fender I have in mind at the overall height I have in mind. The JKU wheelbase seems to be a good wheelbase but starting to get a bit long in my opinion if you want to keep the vehicle lower. The LJ length tub is only 15" longer ( 9" less than a CJ8 ) than a TJ/YJ/CJ7. I think overall its a good compromise in body length for the 110" wheelbase I want to run. Its kinda like the 3 little bears.....this one is too short, this one is too long, this one is just right....

As I mentioned before. The LJ length tub has the best aftermarket and factory support for off the shelf tops. Soft, hard, half, frameless, etc. The CJ8 does ok but I really like the idea of a frameless soft top with the rear bulk of the body minimized BUT just enough room to sleep inside The frameless tops are also the least expensive full top option which is nice.

 

[marshal]

sounds like you need to find a front end collision totaled LJ tub and then get your hands on a frame.

 

[Metcalf]

sounds like you need to find a front end collision totaled LJ tub and then get your hands on a frame.

I talked through this a bit earlier in the thread, but I have decided to buy the aqualu tub and build my own frame from scratch. The stock TJ frame isn't really anything to write home about and the tub would have to be pretty heavily modified for some of the things I have in mind.