LR3 rock crawling carnage

[Ray_G]

I don't even know if the parts would be available on this side of the pond or if they would have to be shipped in from the motherland. But it is an intriguing idea.

Hmmm, I may need to look into this over here-the penchant for such vehicles is fairly high in this area. Sadly the dealership is sometimes less than helpful but it would make for an interesting excursion.

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Follow up since I got bored/intrigued. This appears to indicate that much of the the RRS is the same as the D3 armored:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic68665.html?highlight=Armoured+bushes
Moreover when you dive into one the primary D3.uk sponsor/vendors you find this:
http://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/lr...-suspension-arm-rbj501590-lr0239306-385-p.asp
backing out one screen to the suspension setup, intriguing that the RRS/HD LCA is one, the coil sprung is another, and finally the air sprung is another.
http://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/front-suspension-lower-arms--fixings-139-c.asp

A final edit; if my currency conversion is correct the Advanced Factors cost of 84 GBP equates to ~$128 USD/control arm. Compare that to a major U.S. online retailer's cost of $250...it would be fascinating to see what the shipping is from the UK as unless it's $200+ USD, it may be cheaper to order from over there!

 

[zelatore]

I did an hour or so of reading last night on the subject and found there are different part numbers for the ball joints and bushings in the front. There should be different numbers for the air struts as well but I haven't found those as yet.

It looks like most of the front end components may be the same between the armoured LR3 and the RRS. More research is needed to confirm, and of course I haven't actually called anybody to see if I can get those part numbers.

 

[RoyJ]

Looking closely at the fracture, you can see some old and some new. Clearly this was cracked for some time prior to the complete failure.

Hmm, the fact that it started cracking near the weld makes me wonder if it's poor welding? Perhaps the joint was heat stressed too much (too fast cooling rate), but you'd think stuff like this is robotic, under perfect temp control...

How heavy is your rig btw?

Some of the control arm designs don't look all that different from my Explorer, which is only 4800 lbs. I wonder if Ford cheaped out on part of the design, and tried to re-use inhouse components designed for lighter trucks. Fully loaded I'm around 6000 lbs (RTT, food, water, fridge, all gear), and I know many LRs are 7000 - 8000 lbs!

 

[mpinco]

Looking at the control arm/s, stress vectors and point of failure/s I'm not sure the AdvancedFactor arms are any better. Thinking gusset's off the control arm that spreads the force around the bushing tube is needed. (Non-mechanical engineer opinion, but I did sleep at the EE/Sys Engr hotel and take mechanical courses !)

 

[A.J.M]

The front lower arms on the mk1 RRS are the same as the armoured arms for the D3. They have a different bush design but also the ball joint is 37mm instead of the standard 35mm.

The rear upper arms, again have a different bush design.

Both fit with no issues. I have done both "upgrades" to my 04 D3 and there has been no issues with ride, handling or getting the tracking etc aligned.

 

[Hell Pie]

Perhaps some aspect of the polybush installation weakened the arm? People use heat to loosen stuck control arm bolts, sawzalls to cut out the bushings and then presses to shove the bushings in. Any of the those could introduce stress fractures that would then be worsened by off roading.

 

[zelatore]

Hmm, the fact that it started cracking near the weld makes me wonder if it's poor welding? Perhaps the joint was heat stressed too much (too fast cooling rate), but you'd think stuff like this is robotic, under perfect temp control...

How heavy is your rig btw?

With 2 people and camping gear she's about 7500 lbs. Certainly not a lightweight!

 

[zelatore]

Perhaps some aspect of the polybush installation weakened the arm? People use heat to loosen stuck control arm bolts, sawzalls to cut out the bushings and then presses to shove the bushings in. Any of the those could introduce stress fractures that would then be worsened by off roading.

I don't recall the rear bushings being particularly difficult to remove. Some of the fronts were tough and I used the sawzall to cut the outer sleeve but I remember the rears just pressing out like normal. We didn't use heat on any of them as we didn't even have a torch on-hand.

The control arm bolts were no problem at all. This is a life-long CA truck; corrosion isn't an issue for us like it is for the midwest/NE/SE/etc. I've almost forgotten what rust looks like compared to when I lived in Indiana!

For the time being I don't plan to do control arms unless I find more cracks. I just did the poly bushes and new ball joints early this year. Perhaps next year I'll switch everything over to RRS/Armoured LR3 as PM.

 

[zelatore]

The front lower arms on the mk1 RRS are the same as the armoured arms for the D3. They have a different bush design but also the ball joint is 37mm instead of the standard 35mm.

The rear upper arms, again have a different bush design.

Both fit with no issues. I have done both "upgrades" to my 04 D3 and there has been no issues with ride, handling or getting the tracking etc aligned.

Do you know if the valving is any different on the struts? One thing I've really wanted to do is firm up the damping on my rig. They are very soft to start with, then add the extra weight of the skids/bumpers/sliders/winch/gear/etc and to get back to correct ride height you increase the spring (air) pressure but of course the damping remains the same so it can't really keep up. This might be a reasonable way to help regain some ride control.

 

[mpinco]

Is it me or do those AdvancedFactors welds look like crap?

 

[Nonimouse]

In the EU the more 'sensible' preparation folk tend to fit SuperPro rather than Polybush. Mainly due to Polybush being a lot less forgiving in the squidgy department and SP's being a lot better made; an being machined for long lasting lubricant retention

I feel the strut failed simply because you are pushing the vehicle beyond it's design envelope

 

[A.J.M]

I don't believe the valveing is different, it would be unnecessary costing to make them different.

I would need to look into if there are any design changes or benefits to one or the other.

 

[Funrover]

Man, I really should just buy an RRC for crawling.

I love this, but I am biased. Sorry to see the breakage.

 

[proper4wd]

Couple of things. IMO the bilstein strut broke because it was not manufactured to the same spec as OEM. Weak weld. Have not ever seen this failure on an OEM strut.

The poly bushes certainly contributed to the failure of the upper arm. Much stiffer bushing = less shock absorbtion = more fatigue in the metal instead of in the bush. Especially on washboard road.

And lastly the valving between LR3 and RRS struts is most definitely different. I do not have concrete evidence to back that up - just thousands of miles driving each platform back to back. Much firmer suspension in the RRS.

 

[zelatore]

I just stumbled across this old thread and thought I'd post an update.

Remember back when I broke that strut all those months ago? The guys at Shock Warehouse were sending a call tag to return the old part and were going to send me a new replacement under warranty?

Yeah....the new part did come.

Last week.

It took rather longer than expected. Shock Warehouse claimed they were unable to get any parts from Arnott. True or not I don't know (I have no reason to doubt them, but it still feels a bit questionable). Regardless, after much time the new strut is here. Now if the rains wil l clear up this weekend I'll see about getting it installed along with some other work. Gotta get ready for my next big snow trip in February.