More design ideas/questions

[whatcharterboat]

Fridge Ventilation

ink to a photo of the back of their fridge and cupboard.

Mick When you are looking at BLA check out the fridge ventilation kits for remote compressor fridges. These are piping/ ducting adapters, grills, hoses, etc that go straight onto the condensor. Might be something there interesting, Some of the bilge blower components are adaptable as well. As are common PVC plumbing fittings.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Mick

I wonder if there is a way I could get the air to get sucked past the filter, cool/heat the camper, cool the fridge, dry the clothes cupboard and then get exhausted outside. :hmm:

Mick Been giving this some more thought. This a great idea of yours. Fliter > fan> duct > fridge > pressurised dust free camper when travelling.

The duct sealed straight to the condensor will be critical though (learnt this the hard way). Don't rely on the condensor fan to suck the air and don't just vent it to the general location of the compressor/condensor. Actually seal the duct to the condensor. Sorry Don't have time to find the BLA link to the kits right now. Big uni assignment due tomorrow. Let me know how you get on.

Yeah I think the new ones have improved a wee bit

"A wee bit" Never picked you for a Kiwi.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Mick

I'm never going to get any work done. One last thing I promise .

A guy over the road from our workshop builds yachts. He just fitted a locally made fridge kit that is air and/or watercooled. Not a like the normal watercooled coil around a hull skin fitting. This one pumps water in and out of you water tank via a tiny drinking water pump. Hardly efficient power wise but would be fine while you were driving especially with a small radiator in the line. When you pulled up the the condensor fan would take over. This was a quality marine kit around the same bucks as an Isotherm from BLA. Will find out more details if you want. Just another option to think about.

 

[Mickldo]

Haha. Me too but I had the top down in my FJ40 shorty. Stopped dead then got buried in the cloud. Couldn't see Julie for ages. Could just hear all this coughing, gaging and laughing so I knew she was still in the car. Haha.



Sounds great.



Mick Have done this before using kits from Engel, Norcoast Refridgeration (now Trailblazer), Isotherm and i think Vitrofriggio. They all make them. Some come pregassed with quick connect fittings. The Engel kit came with one line inside the other. That was cool. Check BLA as well.

Don't get sucked in to getting the optional 240V kit. Spend that money on a bigger charger if you want to run 240v.

Hard to beat a Trailblazer in the way that they run the tubes around the inside skin. IMO the 125mm insulation model although pricey would have to the ultimate camping fridge but you will certainly save a few hundred bucks doing it yourself and it will be the optimum size/shape and not a comprimise.

I know the BLA cattledog backwards by now. Their kits is how I found out about the DIY fridge thing. Didn't know Engel did DIY kits, I love my 40L Engel. There is nothing wrong with the Danfoss compressor but I like the Sawafuji motor in the Engel.

I was planning on 75-100mm insulation originally but it looks like I need to do way more research on the subject. You've seen the four Plate Alloy Boats of Australia books haven't you? They had a good article in one of them (can't remember which one) on making fridges and freezers.

 

[Mickldo]

Mick When you are looking at BLA check out the fridge ventilation kits for remote compressor fridges. These are piping/ ducting adapters, grills, hoses, etc that go straight onto the condensor. Might be something there interesting, Some of the bilge blower components are adaptable as well. As are common PVC plumbing fittings.

Have you checked out some of the other marine suppliers as well. Sam Allen Wholesalers, Marine Warehouse, Harrold Marine.

Another good one is Marine Systems Australia if you are chasing any stainless steel plumbing fittings.

 

[Mickldo]

Mick Been giving this some more thought. This a great idea of yours. Fliter > fan> duct > fridge > pressurised dust free camper when travelling.

The duct sealed straight to the condensor will be critical though (learnt this the hard way). Don't rely on the condensor fan to suck the air and don't just vent it to the general location of the compressor/condensor. Actually seal the duct to the condensor. Sorry Don't have time to find the BLA link to the kits right now. Big uni assignment due tomorrow. Let me know how you get on.



"A wee bit" Never picked you for a Kiwi.

Ducting it so it works with the slide out modules might be a drama though.

Although the air only needs to pressurise the cab when traveling. When stopped and the slides are out the air could be ducted out of the bottom of the slide out. When traveling the exhausted air from the fridge would just go back into the cab where it could pressurise the cab.





If you have an assignment due what are you doing surfing the net? Get back to work.


Instead of "wee bit" I could've said they have changed a **** load.

 

[Mickldo]

I'm never going to get any work done. One last thing I promise .

Yeah Right

A guy over the road from our workshop builds yachts. He just fitted a locally made fridge kit that is air and/or watercooled. Not a like the normal watercooled coil around a hull skin fitting. This one pumps water in and out of you water tank via a tiny drinking water pump. Hardly efficient power wise but would be fine while you were driving especially with a small radiator in the line. When you pulled up the the condensor fan would take over. This was a quality marine kit around the same bucks as an Isotherm from BLA. Will find out more details if you want. Just another option to think about.

Hmm....another good idea to ponder. I suppose if the water tank was big enough it would dissipate the heat enough. It might be worth looking into.


Along a similar idea.... I once saw in an early 4wd Monthly mag a Troopy that had its water tank plumbed so it had a small metal line going up to the cab (about 1/4") that was ducted into the cabs air-con ducting. There was a little tap on the dash and when the wanted a drink they would turn it on to get ice cold water. IIRC they also pressurised the tank with their ARB air compressor to pump the water to the cab.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Engel v Danfoss

There is nothing wrong with the Danfoss compressor but I like the Sawafuji motor in the Engel.

Mick Engel make some good gear. When I did pipeline robotics (just before Warrior) we used alot of gear that was built by them. Mainly planetary gearboxes and servo motors. IIRC the Engel motors @ 12 volts only draw about 3.7 amps whereas the Danfoss pull about 4.6 amps. Little bit of trivia.

I didn't know Engel did DIY kits, I love my 40L Engel

The Engel kit I installed was in a 40' cruising cat and worked really well. Probably the easiest to install. The compressor was in a box with a remote temperature dial and it had a 240V lead coming out of it as well as a 12volt pair. It was an auto changeover. Just supply 240v and it drops the 12v. Also only one gas line or should I say one inside the other.

What about the air and/or watercooled unit I mentioned? Does that interest you?

One thing with BLA I found is that you have to check if they actually sell what's in the cattledog. You know how you mentioned other calorifiers the other day, well when I rang them a couple of months back about the Quirk and the Isotherm calorifiers, they told me that the 240v heating elements hadn't passed the Australian Standards so they weren't going to sell them even though they look great in the catalogue. Nothing wrong with the calorifiers. Just that no one wanted to pay for the testing.

You've seen the four Plate Alloy Boats of Australia books haven't you? They had a good article in one of them (can't remember which one) on making fridges and freezers.

Yep. Read it just recently. Mate, that is the best magazine going. That particular issue with the refrigeration article had so much info that was transferable to expedition vehicles I think I'll subscribe to it in the future.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Along a similar idea.... I once saw in an early 4wd Monthly mag a Troopy that had its water tank plumbed so it had a small metal line going up to the cab (about 1/4") that was ducted into the cabs air-con ducting. There was a little tap on the dash and when the wanted a drink they would turn it on to get ice cold water. IIRC they also pressurised the tank with their ARB air compressor to pump the water to the cab.

The Air con (when it used to work)on my Honda was vented through the glovebox so that you could keep cans chilled. That was neat( for a while anyway)

 

[Mickldo]

Mick Engel make some good gear. When I did pipeline robotics (just before Warrior) we used alot of gear that was built by them. Mainly planetary gearboxes and servo motors. IIRC the Engel motors @ 12 volts only draw about 3.7 amps whereas the Danfoss pull about 4.6 amps. Little bit of trivia.



The Engel kit I installed was in a 40' cruising cat and worked really well. Probably the easiest to install. The compressor was in a box with a remote temperature dial and it had a 240V lead coming out of it as well as a 12volt pair. It was an auto changeover. Just supply 240v and it drops the 12v. Also only one gas line or should I say one inside the other.

What about the air and/or watercooled unit I mentioned? Does that interest you?

One thing with BLA I found is that you have to check if they actually sell what's in the cattledog. You know how you mentioned other calorifiers the other day, well when I rang them a couple of months back about the Quirk and the Isotherm calorifiers, they told me that the 240v heating elements hadn't passed the Australian Standards so they weren't going to sell them even though they look great in the catalogue. Nothing wrong with the calorifiers. Just that no one wanted to pay for the testing.



Yep. Read it just recently. Mate, that is the best magazine going. That particular issue with the refrigeration article had so much info that was transferable to expedition vehicles I think I'll subscribe to it in the future.

Yeah, I like the idea of the air/watercooled one. I'd appreciate it if you could dig up some more info on it.

I got told the same thing about the calorifers when I rang up about them a couple of months ago too. But I got a newsletter from them a week or so ago saying that they had been re-released.

 

[whatcharterboat]

I got told the same thing about the calorifers when I rang up about them a couple of months ago too. But I got a newsletter from them a week or so ago saying that they had been re-released.

That's good to hear. The Australian Sigmar Marine importer lives here in Noosa so we are going to buy them now. The same ones that Webasto sell.

I'd appreciate it if you could dig up some more info on it.

Done. I'll post something back up here so the other guys can see too. Give me about 10 days.

Got to go Mick. Have a killa flu. Talk to you next week.

 

[Mickldo]

That's good to hear. The Australian Sigmar Marine importer lives here in Noosa so we are going to buy them now. The same ones that Webasto sell.


Done. I'll post something back up here so the other guys can see too. Give me about 10 days.

Got to go Mick. Have a killa flu. Talk to you next week.

I might have to get their details off you. PM me if you want.

Both of my girls are in bed crook with the flu too. I am hoping I don't get it too.

 

[Mickldo]

Yeah, I like the idea of the air/watercooled one. I'd appreciate it if you could dig up some more info on it.

I got told the same thing about the calorifers when I rang up about them a couple of months ago too. But I got a newsletter from them a week or so ago saying that they had been re-released.

I actually had to order one of these Isotherm 24L calorifers just this week at work. I started plumbing it up today. Once it is finished I'll take some photos of the install. It is going in a food vending trailer we are building.

 

[Bogo]

For refrigerator and freezer insulation there are Vacuum Insulation Panels (VIPs). They start at about R25 per inch and go up to R50 plus per inch. The catch is they have to be made to size, they cost allot, and they slowly loose some insulating capacity over the years. Where space is at a premium they could be a way to save valuable space and improve efficiency of the refrigerator/freezer.

Do a google on "Vacuum Insulation Panels" and lots of links will come up.

RParts sells them as well as others.
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Box_Building/insulation/insulation.asp

Using their prices for a refrigerator with an 24"L x 18"W x 18"D interior volume it is about $431US for the VIP panels. That makes an R28 insulated box. The best foam I know of would require at least 3.5" to get the same insulating ability. For the box I used 2 * 20" x 19" end panels, 2 * 18" x 24" side panels, 2 * 24" x 20" top and bottom panels.

Something to think about. You don't have to do all sides of the refrigerator/freezer as VIPs. Say one side of your refrigerator will always be next to the heater or is the outside wall. You could just use a VIP on that side.

I haven't run the numbers but I bet for a full time expedition rig or RV that boondocks all the time they would pay for themselves in extended battery life through reduced electrical use and not having to run the engine as much or allowing for a smaller solar panel area.

 

[Mickldo]

For refrigerator and freezer insulation there are Vacuum Insulation Panels (VIPs). They start at about R25 per inch and go up to R50 plus per inch. The catch is they have to be made to size, they cost allot, and they slowly loose some insulating capacity over the years. Where space is at a premium they could be a way to save valuable space and improve efficiency of the refrigerator/freezer.

Do a google on "Vacuum Insulation Panels" and lots of links will come up.

RParts sells them as well as others.
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Box_Building/insulation/insulation.asp

Using their prices for a refrigerator with an 24"L x 18"W x 18"D interior volume it is about $431US for the VIP panels. That makes an R28 insulated box. The best foam I know of would require at least 3.5" to get the same insulating ability. For the box I used 2 * 20" x 19" end panels, 2 * 18" x 24" side panels, 2 * 24" x 20" top and bottom panels.

Something to think about. You don't have to do all sides of the refrigerator/freezer as VIPs. Say one side of your refrigerator will always be next to the heater or is the outside wall. You could just use a VIP on that side.

I haven't run the numbers but I bet for a full time expedition rig or RV that boondocks all the time they would pay for themselves in extended battery life through reduced electrical use and not having to run the engine as much or allowing for a smaller solar panel area.

G'day Bogo

Good to see you over here.

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely be looking at something like this.