More design ideas/questions

[whatcharterboat]

Mick
Mark's yacht is almost done but the keel was stuffed up so they had to make a new one . This is the fridge maker that supplied the kit. Water cooled through the drinking wter tank when power is abundant and reverts back to a conventional air cooled unit when on solar or battery storage. That was how he explained ti to me anyway.


Have a look .s see what you think.

http://www.ozefridge.com.au/system_package.htm

 

[Mickldo]

Mick
Mark's yacht is almost done but the keel was stuffed up so they had to make a new one . This is the fridge maker that supplied the kit. Water cooled through the drinking wter tank when power is abundant and reverts back to a conventional air cooled unit when on solar or battery storage. That was how he explained ti to me anyway.


Have a look .s see what you think.

http://www.ozefridge.com.au/system_package.htm

Ozefridge was the one that I was thinking of using to make the fridge/freezer but I was unaware they did the watercooling. I reckon I will go this way when I do mine. Thanks for the link John.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Mick Found these fridge pics. We built this truck about a year ago (have already posted some pics of it in an older thread) and built our own fridge that follows the profile of the outside of the truck (see the bottom pic) so that there is no wasted void behind it. The compressor was mounted under the oven and vented with louvred grills and an extra computer fan. We used 50mm urethane foam around the cabinet plus the standard 40mm insulation in the outer wall of the truck.

We tried a eutectic system first with some of the tank protruding into the lower fridge compartment but found the standard Isotherm plate worked better as a freezer. We really thought the eutectic would have been better than it was but it just wouldn’t freeze even though the tank was covered in ice. Now it freezes way faster than my household fridge. You probably can’t see it, but just behind the end of the bread bag is a small grill with a thermostatically controlled mechanical flap that dumps cold air from the upper freezer into the lower fridge.

A lot of guys complain about the normal RV/ Marine fridges not being up to the rigors of offroad use. Mainly shelves breaking and food stuffs ending up all over the place. So the boss wanted to have a go at making something really tough and up to the task. See the locks for traveling and heavy duty shelving slides. I think they use some Tupperware containers in it as well to help organize things but they aren’t shown in the pics. We’ve got all the molds now so if anyone wants the option it will be really quick to build.

I suppose you will go sheet alloy won’t you like a Trailblaza? Or coldroom panel with aluminum angle corners? We will probably look at the Ozefridge too. Mark across the road said they were really easy to deal with and the kit was no hassle to install. He’s not so lucky with the keel on that boat though. It’s a bolt on steel fin keel with lead cast in the base and stands about 1400 or 1500 mm high but ended up with a twist that’s too bad to fair out. So it’s just sitting there waiting for the replacement. $400k boat too. Doh. Full teak "old school" interior but cut with a Mark's own CNC table router. Most amazing cabinetry and joinery I've ever seen in a yacht. Absolutely zero tolerances.

BTW That’s one of the alcohol stove/ovens that we talked about next to the fridge.

Talk next week. Have a good one.
John

 

[Mickldo]

Mick Found these fridge pics. We built this truck about a year ago (have already posted some pics of it in an older thread) and built our own fridge that follows the profile of the outside of the truck (see the bottom pic) so that there is no wasted void behind it. The compressor was mounted under the oven and vented with louvred grills and an extra computer fan. We used 50mm urethane foam around the cabinet plus the standard 40mm insulation in the outer wall of the truck.

We tried a eutectic system first with some of the tank protruding into the lower fridge compartment but found the standard Isotherm plate worked better as a freezer. We really thought the eutectic would have been better than it was but it just wouldn’t freeze even though the tank was covered in ice. Now it freezes way faster than my household fridge. You probably can’t see it, but just behind the end of the bread bag is a small grill with a thermostatically controlled mechanical flap that dumps cold air from the upper freezer into the lower fridge.

A lot of guys complain about the normal RV/ Marine fridges not being up to the rigors of offroad use. Mainly shelves breaking and food stuffs ending up all over the place. So the boss wanted to have a go at making something really tough and up to the task. See the locks for traveling and heavy duty shelving slides. I think they use some Tupperware containers in it as well to help organize things but they aren’t shown in the pics. We’ve got all the molds now so if anyone wants the option it will be really quick to build.

I suppose you will go sheet alloy won’t you like a Trailblaza? Or coldroom panel with aluminum angle corners? We will probably look at the Ozefridge too. Mark across the road said they were really easy to deal with and the kit was no hassle to install. He’s not so lucky with the keel on that boat though. It’s a bolt on steel fin keel with lead cast in the base and stands about 1400 or 1500 mm high but ended up with a twist that’s too bad to fair out. So it’s just sitting there waiting for the replacement. $400k boat too. Doh. Full teak "old school" interior but cut with a Mark's own CNC table router. Most amazing cabinetry and joinery I've ever seen in a yacht. Absolutely zero tolerances.

BTW That’s one of the alcohol stove/ovens that we talked about next to the fridge.

Talk next week. Have a good one.
John

I like that fridge/freezer. The way it has the chest freezer on the top and the slide out fridge.

Because I want a fridge in the boat and the camper I "ideally" would like to use the same sort in both. I like the water cooled Ozefridges. Both the boat and the camper will have their own water tanks so I could use the same type in both.

I want to use something like the VIP's Bogo suggested, maybe in an aluminium shell outer and a fibreglass inner.

The boat will definitely be built in but I haven't finished working out the final layout of the campers kitchen yet. I'd like it to be built in too but that part might have to wait.

Earlier in the thread I was talking about ducting the air in the camper. I could duct the air from the cabin out to the fridge in the boat too.

Notice I said "ideally" up above^^. Practically though I will probably have to just have the one self contained fridge and swap it between the two, depending on whether I am on land or on water. Having the water cooling and the air ducting might make it hard though to swap between the two. Back to the quick release fluid connections we were talking about at the start of the thread.

I suppose though I still have my 40L Engel that I can put into the boat or the cab of the cruiser. I'll just have to catch more fish in the boat.........

 

[haven]

John,
Beautiful work, as always!

 

[whatcharterboat]

Chip

Thanks Chip. I passed on your comment to everyone at work today.

Wished you could see them for real and up close. Those benchtops are actually a synthetic granite that we use in our own molds. And the floor covering has a metal flake/fleck in it. The photos never seem to do them justice. So believe me, any praise from only seeing a few pics is well recieved.

Thanks again.

 

[dhackney]

John,

+1 on beautiful work. Great stuff and an inspiration to us all.

RE: the fridge
Did you consider having a tray or bottom that slid out with the drawer? It would hold the cold air in the fridge rather than dumping it all out everytime the drawer is opened.

 

[Bogo]

RParts sells them as well as others.
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Box_Building/insulation/insulation.asp

On the vacuum insulation panels I mentioned before. I was contemplating hacking one of the portable chest refrigerators and putting the cooling mechanism into a double walled VIP lined box. I figured it was a cheap way to get a cooling mechanism as a whole Engal MT45 is cheaper than most refrigerator compressor/condenser/evaporator kits. With the extra insulation abilities of the VIPs it would have to work less or could do a larger box.

 

[Bogo]

http://www.ozefridge.com.au/system_package.htm

Here in the US they call the phase change eutectic style holding plate refrigeration or freezer. They do have a lower temperature limit based on the phase change temperature of the material used. The principal advantage they have power wise is very few motor start power draws. Otherwise they likely would be similar in power consumption to the same compressor used with properly sized evaporator and condenser. With a large enough holding plate you can run it once during the day when the sun is up and the solar panels are pumping out juice or you are driving. No losses storing power in the batteries. The other thing I'll note is they don't work well with vertical doors as they can't cool the air down fast. They really only work with chest type designs. They are also not great at freezing or initially cooling stuff.

 

[whatcharterboat]

hI dOUG

RE: the fridge
Did you consider having a tray or bottom that slid out with the drawer? It would hold the cold air in the fridge rather than dumping it all out everytime the drawer is opened.

Doug It's not shown in the pic but there is a Tuperrware container/crisper that fits neatly in below the drawers or alternatively a combination of containers could be used. We've only done one so far so sure there is room for improvement. Your idea of a bottom bin on slides is a good one. I'm sure that would be quite user friendly.

BTW Did you get my email last week??

They really only work with chest type designs. They are also not great at freezing or initially cooling stuff.

We have a eutectic chest fridge on the yacht I crew on. Not like the Ozefridge with the water/air cooling but a conventional aircooled condensor type like an Isotherm. Isotherm also do a watercooled condensor which is a jacket around a skin/hull fitting. The trouble with those is that unless you have water flow under the boat they tend to heat the water in the skin fitting so they aren't so efficient especially if you're anchored in still Northern waters here.

The Isotherm on the yacht is perfect for its application. If you only run the motor every few days for an hour or two, the tank will chill down and hold with only a minimal power consumption for the following days.

BTW I like the days when we run the motor cause thats the only time during a passage we score a hot shower. Haha.

Anyway, I think the Ozefridge with the water cooling option would be very efficient while you're travelling (and batteries are charging) in hot country.

I figured it was a cheap way to get a cooling mechanism as a whole Engal MT45 is cheaper than most refrigerator compressor/condenser/evaporator kits. With the extra insulation abilities of the VIPs it would have to work less or could do a larger box.

Sounds great, but do you think you'll be able to get one apart successfully? I'm sure it would work well at the end of the day.

Engel and Waeco are very popular here but these are the best portable fridges I've seen. See the link.

http://www.norcoast.com.au/

They are made about 1/2 an hour South of here. We used to use there kits and build them in under seats on boats I used to build a long time ago but now their main business is the Trailblaza's. Very heavy duty and great insulation. The best feature is what you can't see and that's the way they wrap the coils around the inside of the cabinet. Very efficient cold transfer. They also sell a lot of vaccine fridges for foreign aid etc. And do a range of insulation up to 5" and offer extra heavy duty tread plate construction and a heap of other optional stuff. See the link anyway.

They used to just build custom shop fridges and somehow found their niche in portables.

 

[dhackney]

Doug It's not shown in the pic but there is a Tuperrware container/crisper that fits neatly in below the drawers or alternatively a combination of containers could be used. We've only done one so far so sure there is room for improvement. Your idea of a bottom bin on slides is a good one. I'm sure that would be quite user friendly.

I was thinking of something that slid out with the bottom drawer/tray that formed a "bucket" for the cold air so it didn't just flow out every time you opened the fridge. It could make a big difference in cycles of the fridge and therefore overall energy requirements.

BTW Did you get my email last week??

Yes, thanks. Sorry for the delay. Reply is coming. Been offline for a while and just posted these comments via an internet cafe. Should have a reply back to you in the next few days.

 

[whatcharterboat]

I was thinking of something that slid out with the bottom drawer/tray that formed a "bucket" for the cold air so it didn't just flow out every time you opened the fridge. It could make a big difference in cycles of the fridge and therefore overall energy requirements.

Yeah Doug. I understood what you meant about the "cold bucket/trap" (especially with a eutectic system). It would be easy enough for us to mold one close to the shape of the cabinet, fit it on s/s slides and attach it to the door.

Also It would be easier to access things at the bottom of the fridge. Again > great idea. The next couple are having fairly high quality marine fridges but I'm sure we'll look at the "cold bucket" for our own cabinet in the future.

Really didn't mean to hijak Mickldo's thread but the lucky bloke has gone up to the Gulf country for a week for a party/fishing trip so serves him right. Haha.

Yes, thanks. Sorry for the delay. Reply is coming. Been offline for a while and just posted these comments via an internet cafe. Should have a reply back to you in the next few days.

Hey. No rush. Whenever. Just making sure you got it.

Take care. John.

 

[Mickldo]

Really didn't mean to hijak Mickldo's thread but the lucky bloke has gone up to the Gulf country for a week for a party/fishing trip so serves him right. Haha.

I don't care about the hijacks. That's what these threads are about. I have been learning heaps about fridges from what you guys have been chatting about in my absence.

 

[Mickldo]

After my trip to Cloncurry, where the temp didn't go under 40 degrees C the whole trip, I now realize that I need to work more on insulation and cooling. Even though the windows are tinted and I had them cracked a little bit for ventilation the temp on the fridge thermometer was around 50 degrees C for the ambient temp. We had the plastic bag on the loaf of bread melt to the crust. The wife had a bag of Chico Babies that melted into one molten mass of candy. Who knows what else was damaged by the heat.

I think my idea of a filtered ventilation to the cabin will work but I think I will need better insulation than what I had planned.

 

[Mickldo]

While I was doing all that driving up to the 'Curry and back I had a couple of thoughts on my camper.

I want to chop the 105 into dual cab and extend the chassis to give me enough room for the camper shell. Normally you extend the wheelbase too so you get the front and rear axle weights right. The other way is to add a lazy axle or do a six wheel drive conversion. I am not a fan of lazy axles but there aren't too many good 6x6 conversions out there.

As a bit of a thought continuation from my boat thread I came up with the idea of running the forward rear axle as per OEM specs and have the add-on rear axle driven by an electric motor to make a hybrid. You could drive it as per normal and just have the rear as a lazy axle, just have the rear driving with the electric as a RWD configuration or you could have the whole six driven by a mixture of drivetrain and electric. Being ABS the 105 already has wheel speed sensors which may or may not help rig it all up.

What do you all reckon? Am I dreaming again (or still??)?

Worst comes to worse I can just disable the electrics and just have a lazy rear axle. The 105's have fully floating axles so the motors wouldn't be an integral part of the wheel assemblies.