New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Another video of the Defender being used in the "exception" category for what its sole design was "not" designed for and doing pretty damn good. Remember it's bone stock with factory configured tires; not lifted or anything outside of its design and still being compared to a Jeep on rock-climbing and not the other 99% of global travel.

I did 1600 (Odometer 131,684; 08LR3) miles starting on Friday til late last night; short story Oceanside to Sacramento, to Redding, to Yosemite, to Sacramento, to Tahoe, to Mammoth Lakes, to Death Valley, to Alabama Hills and Whitney Corridor, Red Rock (the Cali one), back to Oceanside. Of those 1600 miles, (solo trip with a lady friend so route smartness was of key concern since we were planned solo vehicle, long distance and off-cell grid the vast majority), almost 500 of those miles were off-road from sand, mountain roads, firebreaks, a tad of mild rock crawling, and a ton of high and low desert unimproved roads; every stop had a off-trek excursion via overland travel to the next stop via Gaia maps. For those of us Southwestern based folks, we understand how far you can go without touching tarmac in the Sierras and Eastern Sierra Corridor and those are hard miles to make time off-pavement. For those freeway cruising miles in between, 15.3MPG on 17" KM2's in creature 08 Land Rover comfort with the cruise at 72mph/2100rpm and normal conversation tones inside the vehicle and second row seat NL 52l fridge/freezer chilling the drinks and snacks. Off-road; generally in auto shift and 3-4 gear cruising the desert trails and if low-range 2-3 gear for the occasional 1st gear on the critical steep climbs, rocks, and decent. Ran across a few kitted out LR3/4 up north; can only imagine its the NCLR crew but for the most part it was just a good crowd of all flavors all around doing overlanding; living it, not just taking a rock-crawling excursion for a few miles but actually traveling long ranges in vehicles designed to do so in a wide-variety of environments, climates, and terrain. I can cruise comfortably on the freeway at about 75mph with decent mileage and comfort and 40mph off-road on washboards no problem and then go as slow as technical terrain is needed; the point is there is far more to overlanding than rock-crawling so yeah; I'll digress on all these comparative videos.

I will say, minor setback in Tahoe with a water pump fail; but not the Genuine LR, the replacement Delco I put in long ago and didn't make it anywhere near as far as the original LR spec WP did. I keep a spare alternator and water pump stowed tightly with the fan wrench inside the back panels; are these JLR specificities related to potential overlanding breakdowns; I think not. 1.5 hour set-back (takes longer to bleed the system then change the pump) and back on the road and to the trail and to 9000' above Tahoe Ridge for some epic camping and solo spot. Sub-sea-level of for bit in Death Valley (F-its hot) and then up to 10.5k at Lone Pine Lake in the Mt. Whitney Corridor for some adventure running.

My biggest complaint as always in my LR3 is:............RANGE; it takes planning when I have to carry one or two Jerries and plan my routes so tightly around fuel and I feel the new Defender is going to be the same! I'll digress, my LR3 and the Old and New Defender are not rock-crawler designed like a Rubicon; but out of the box they are pretty close when the "NO MOD" rules are in play. For the rest of the 99% of the overland categories that the Defender and my LR3 were designed for; try and keep up! I have more money in off-grid complete sustainability in my vehicle than I do modifications for performance; tires are all that was needed and I can go to some pretty gnarly spots with a bone stock LR.

Happy trails all you RAGERS who need to see that Defender fail on the rocks and your solid axles and 37's to be off-road..........the rest of us will see it succeed in every other area.

On that note, parked next to this young kid and his lady in their Gladiator in Palmdale on the home stretch after Red Rock. We parked around the same time, exited our vehicles and the kid looked at me and said "Damn, that Rover is sweet.....can't wait to get my lift and my tires so I can go places like this and have it all dirty, my buddies won't let me go til I get all my mods done." I replied to him "thanks man, that's an awesome compliment but you don't need any of that stuff to take your lady out to many of the places we just went to and show her a great time". I gave him my paper Eastern Sierra trails map with a ton of roads he can travel with great spots to cut his teeth on that are safe if he's out alone and welcomed him to the community." His peers were making him feel he couldn't come until his Jeep was up to par and he's telling me places I know any unmodified Jeep or Subaru could drive 10/10 times. Tell me that is not the norm, making a young kid believe he needs $10k in mods to hang on the trails and it's all around; the Internet Expo Pros and haters telling people all this profound knowledge and backing it up with absolutely no substance. Gave him my card and told him about the portal so hopefully he's logging on and getting some good info from other great members that can be backed up with facts and relevance and not emotional projection over vehicle names.

Which one is overlanding all about................??????????
Agreed even White Rim mid season is a heavily trafficked route passable by any stock 4x4. Yet you see groups of jeeps looking as if they are prepared to cross the Darién Gap while a stock Ford Explorer and 6 mountain bikers bike packing go around the Darién Gap bunch stopped preening their rigs before they touch a gravel road ?
 
Truth man; I was coming down from Tahoe Ridge and passed a camping spot full of lifted rigs that must have came in during the morning or sometime after me cuz I didn't see them on the way up and they were only about 1k altitude below me. Shortly after I passed them I had a narrow road excursion with a dude in a newer Subaru Forester with a mountain bike strapped to the roof; dude just pulled into the treelike and let me pass, gave a wave and cruised on like no biggie. Would loved to have seen him drive past the crew of lifted rigs and see if there would be a reaction.

I said it a while back that my time in Afghanistan and Africa showed me what a basic car can do with the everyday person behind the wheel; they just drive and do their thing and for some reason people think all this bling will make you a better driver or more capable without the knowledge, experience, and skill to back it up.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Truth man; I was coming down from Tahoe Ridge and passed a camping spot full of lifted rigs that must have came in during the morning or sometime after me cuz I didn't see them on the way up and they were only about 1k altitude below me. Shortly after I passed them I had a narrow road excursion with a dude in a newer Subaru Forester with a mountain bike strapped to the roof; dude just pulled into the treelike and let me pass, gave a wave and cruised on like no biggie. Would loved to have seen him drive past the crew of lifted rigs and see if there would be a reaction.

I said it a while back that my time in Afghanistan and Africa showed me what a basic car can do with the everyday person behind the wheel; they just drive and do their thing and for some reason people think all this bling will make you a better driver or more capable without the knowledge, experience, and skill to back it up.
I recall one of the auto commercials played on the “Man that guy is going camping” given the vehicle had every conceivable toy strapped to it add. I feel like this trend is more look at me rather than actually getting out there. LoL
I’m the opposite I load up my junk behind a closed garage door and try really hard to not look like I’m some rolling sporting goods store going down the road.
 

Beowulf

Expedition Leader
Bill Burke has some videos up of him driving the new defender in Moab up on FaceBook. It is about what I expected.

 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Truth man; I was coming down from Tahoe Ridge and passed a camping spot full of lifted rigs that must have came in during the morning or sometime after me cuz I didn't see them on the way up and they were only about 1k altitude below me. Shortly after I passed them I had a narrow road excursion with a dude in a newer Subaru Forester with a mountain bike strapped to the roof; dude just pulled into the treelike and let me pass, gave a wave and cruised on like no biggie. Would loved to have seen him drive past the crew of lifted rigs and see if there would be a reaction.

I said it a while back that my time in Afghanistan and Africa showed me what a basic car can do with the everyday person behind the wheel; they just drive and do their thing and for some reason people think all this bling will make you a better driver or more capable without the knowledge, experience, and skill to back it up.
I used to do the same thing in my bone stock 2005 Subaru Outback XT with a manual in the Nevada/Cali/Utah deserts and down in the San Juans. Got a lot of frantic waves and, "you won't make it in that..." comments. I'd just say, "cool, thanks, I'll look for a spot up here to turn around" and kept going. Some trailheads were fun to show up in with that.

Drove a lady's first-gen Forester for her over a landslide debris field with basketball sized boulders and slurry below Schofield Pass once. Boulders were loose and it was a little sporting due to the consequences but it did fine, no trail damage, no flat tires.

The trend in lifted Subies with KO2s now is amusing, but good to see. Have seen people do things with Toyota MR2 Spyders that were unbelievable - sometimes it's better to be lucky than good - and the Top Gear Patagonia Special where they offloaded the Lotus Esprit was awesome.
 
Slight modifications to that brush bar could make it an mid-entry protection until a full bull-bar is available. If it bolts to the winch mount frame than the structure is there; reinforcement or solid plate instead of tube would provide protection for 80% (if not more) of peoples uses on protection. Add mesh protection inside the open areas of the tube bending for tree, branch, and mild debris and roll on without issues for the most part.

I still say I don't need in 95% of cases my TR front bumper and want it aluminum and not steel; the only reason it was ever installed is due to an accident and TR was cheaper than OEM JLR replacement parts.
 

Corgi_express

Well-known member
I've been defending (ha!) Land Rover a lot in this thread, but I have some rage/hate of my own to share....

There is absolutely no way to search for an in-stock Defender equipped with the rear locking differential anywhere in the US, and if there were a way to search for it, you would probably not see any results anyway because the stupid dealers did not order any of them with the locker.

It's like the dealers are bending over backwards to prove all the haters and trolls in this thread correct. The thing can be kitted out to be a proper off roader, but good luck finding some steel wheels. I realize that, just like the Wrangler, most of these will never see dirt, but at least throw us a bone by ordering a few of them with knobby tires, would ya???


Land Rover: this is an incredibly capable vehicle, check out these shots from Moab and Namibia
Dealers: nah, but can I get some of that wood grain on the interior???
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I've been defending (ha!) Land Rover a lot in this thread, but I have some rage/hate of my own to share....

There is absolutely no way to search for an in-stock Defender equipped with the rear locking differential anywhere in the US, and if there were a way to search for it, you would probably not see any results anyway because the stupid dealers did not order any of them with the locker.

It's like the dealers are bending over backwards to prove all the haters and trolls in this thread correct. The thing can be kitted out to be a proper off roader, but good luck finding some steel wheels. I realize that, just like the Wrangler, most of these will never see dirt, but at least throw us a bone by ordering a few of them with knobby tires, would ya???


Land Rover: this is an incredibly capable vehicle, check out these shots from Moab and Namibia
Dealers: nah, but can I get some of that wood grain on the interior???
No more like all the dealers are catering to the soccer mom status symbol and trying to keep price down at the same time.
 

Corgi_express

Well-known member
trying to keep price down at the same time.

Yeah, no... most of the Defenders in the US are SE trim and above, with the expensive six cylinder mild hybrid and a bunch of appearance driven, costly upgrades. There are a lot of $70k+ Defenders on Autotrader, when you could equip an S with all the off road and towing goodies for $10k less.
 
Bill is a big LR fan and has been driving them/training Offroad driving in them for decades. The smallest rim is 18” and the largest tire is 31”, I believe. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Honestly, you can’t wheel in Moab with 18” rims/31” tires. Setting aside the fact that you need 12” of clearance, which the Defender comes nowhere close to achieving, the profile of those tires is way too high and you can’t air down to crawl over most Moab rocks. You couldn’t drag the new defender over Poison Spyder or Steel Bender, let alone some of the more challenging trails.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Most are probably leased so dealers by design will avoid tow packages and off road gear. Leased vehicles are best kept in street tires and left in grocery and wine tour trim.
 

umbertob

Adventurer
Salespeople at local LR dealerships must have been trained to talk people out of rear lockers / HD packs. I had the same experience when shopping for the LR4, "Unless you are towing a really big boat the rear locking differential is a waste of money, the car is that good!" was pretty much the universal answer from Encino, Pasadena, Redondo... Nothing like that in stock anywhere in California, I had to order the car the way I wanted from Solihull - and wait. For the Defender, I figured I would cut off the middleman right away, lol. Unfortunately, it's also true that 99% of the customers walking into a LR dealership these days don't need a low range, let alone lockers.
 

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