You want a Wrangler or a pickup. Go buy one.
New Defender Rage/Hate Thread
- Thread starter DieselRanger
- Start date
You want a Wrangler or a pickup. Go buy one.
DieselRanger
Well-known member
Here we go with the "field repair" thing again.
So do you carry with you all of the components that might fail in the field with you when you overland? If so, where do you keep your food, your emergency gear, your sleeping gear, your tools, ... etc? Do you bring driveshafts? Crankshafts? Timing belts?
I have been driving in all conditions all over the world for 30 years, never ever seen a fuel pump fail in the field in a properly maintained vehicle. Have seen plenty of idiots drive their shitbox 4x4's into places when they should have known better, and been forced to tow it out or field-strip and replace stuff - and that's their own damn fault. New vehicles are developed to standards and tested to those standards - and in LR's case, tested beyond those standards. The likelihood of things like a fuel pump failing on modern vehicles is so low in comparison to even a new-at-the-time 1980's CJ that it's not worth considering, as long as you're servicing on schedule. I don't go out to bash my truck to see how much abuse it can take before it breaks - that's akin to setting a pile of money on fire. I want to have fun, and setting a pile of money on fire is not fun. When you really get into the new LR platforms, you notice that driveshafts are tucked up inside the structure, lines are very thoughtfully run to avoid their exposure to rocks and stumps that can snag and tear them and to guard against friction wear, and critical components to have some armor on them - aluminum, but there's still some protection there, and that can be upgraded. A dented muffler isn't going to strand you, and ultimately even a punctured DEF tank (sits under the left front seat) won't strand you if you don't stop/start the engine more than 10 times. Careful line selection as with any 4x4 will avoid radiator damage to the intercooler that sits in front of the left front wheel in the Td6, but D5 took a nose dive at speed off a sand dune in Peru on a LR press junket and suffered no damage to the cooling system, to the surprise of all journalists present.
Does ******** happen? Yup, sure does. But all you can do is play the odds, and the odds are with modern vehicles, that the kinds of things that used to fail in the field, don't.
When these are 35 years old and have 350,000 miles on them...yeah, maybe that will be a problem, but by then finding parts for any internal combustion engined vehicle is going to be an issue unless you bring a 3D printer and a shitton of plastic and metal powder with you.
DieselRanger
Well-known member
Unfortunately, in order to sell these vehicles in the US, Europe, and increasingly, China - the largest markets in the world - they require very advanced computer systems, sensors, and things like forced induction and high pressure fuel pumps with direct injection in order to achieve emissions certification. Even the Wrangler has a turbo 4 for compliance now. And a mild hybrid.
THAT is why being a "global vehicle" is important. As explained and ignored already, the US, and specifically California, effectively dictate emissions regulation and thus engine design for the entire world, except for those automakers who can afford to tailor their offerings for specific markets. Jaguar Land Rover is not and never has been one of those automakers.
EricTyrrell
Expo God
lol. A "global" vehicle that globally lacks even the most basic of support, such as tire availability or shops that can work on the thing. Life with a luxury Defender will be comfy, if you live near a dealership.
DieselRanger
Well-known member
Plenty of tires available. If you're overlanding, then you take spares with you. By default, there aren't pop-up tire shops in the Black Rock Desert or the Atacama. And a set of Compomotives plus some BFG's or whatever your tire of choice is, is a minor expense and easy to do.
And if you drive a car made after about 2000, there's a lot of stuff you can't repair without a computer anyway. Sorry. If you want a road-legal vehicle bought new, such is the world we live in. If you don't like it, vote libertarian, because even the Republicans won't go so far as to repeal every regulation out there.
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nickw
Adventurer
I think he's just looking for a rig that is as effective as Defender is overlanding and is more comfortable on road but I may be missing something?
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EricTyrrell
Expo God
Most of the world outside NA, does not stock 18"+ tires, or have any idea how to work on these things. It's only global within the small dealership network. It may be the world we live in, but that doesn't fix it.
REDROVER
Explorer
Yes of course I do have spare parts with me always,
Fuel pump
Upper and lower ball joints
Gallon if transmission fluid
Gallon of engine oil
welding equipment,
Cutting tools and drill
3000 watt power inverter.
field repair aspect is 100% critical for me,
In the Pacific northwest most trails are endless with no cell service or tow service,
You have 2 options, walk for 3 days to get help, or help yourself on the spot.
and this criticism is not only for new defender that’s for any fancy 4x1.
Fuel pump
Upper and lower ball joints
Gallon if transmission fluid
Gallon of engine oil
welding equipment,
Cutting tools and drill
3000 watt power inverter.
field repair aspect is 100% critical for me,
In the Pacific northwest most trails are endless with no cell service or tow service,
You have 2 options, walk for 3 days to get help, or help yourself on the spot.
and this criticism is not only for new defender that’s for any fancy 4x1.
nickw
Adventurer
Option 3 - go with a buddy which is the "safe" way to explore anything off the beaten path. I'm in the NW also and we take our Motos up into the Gifford-Pinchot high alpine, a breakdown up there (by yourself) is a big deal.
Sadly that is true for JLR. Their dealer network for the US is coastal/large urban areas. While they have expanded, it is always predicated on high income zip codes. JLR has zero presence in the upper midwest / nothern intermountain west. Years ago when I was looking for a RRC LWB the search results were dominated by TX, NJ, CA, FL and GA. In my travels across the Midwest I hardly ever saw another LR. It is somewhat better but with JLR moving upmarket we shall see. So to your point JLR does lack even the most basic support for large areas of the US, well other than you can call roadside assistance and they will flat-bed you the hundreds of miles to the nearest dealer.
nickw
Adventurer
Something to keep in mind though regarding things like tires, I don't have the time nor desire to look this up regarding the new Defender, just because something is specced with 18" or 19" rims doesn't mean it can't fit smaller stuff. I'm guessing 17"s are the smallest, it is for many new rigs, but my 2018 Audi SQ5 came OEM with 20's and I put some 18" winters on it. The current Rangers, non-base models, come with 17's or 18's but 16's fit. So it's definitely possible to get around the tire problem in some (not all) circumstances. Obviously brake rotor size is generally the limiting factor.....just food for thought.
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DieselRanger
Well-known member
You can say that about any vehicle. Hasn't stopped them from driving from South Africa to India, or across Africa for that matter.
Box Rocket
Well-known member
In my opinion, even traveling with another vehicle it is good practice to carry spare parts etc. whether the vehicle is new or old. Traveling with more than one vehicle is always safer. A disabled rig can be left and you can get a ride out with the other vehicle (assuming they have room). But there's always the risk of losing stuff from an abandoned, disabled vehicle. I think it's a selfish imposition to just expect someone else to drive you out if something goes wrong with your vehicle and you're unable to fix it. I think it's important to be as self-sufficient as possible. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. That means, being prepared with your knowledge of the vehicle and how to fix it as well as the proper tools and parts for the most common failure points and also some less common.
Personally, besides fluids and a fairly complete tool kit I carry all belts, fuses, electrical repair items. For mechanical parts, I generally carry spare driveshafts (stored under the vehicle), spare axle shafts, ujoints, spare brake pads, spare rod ends, spare hub studs, spare wheel studs and wheel bearings. Various other nuts bolts, various sized o-rings. A way to charge battery powered tools. CO2 tank that can be used for Air tools. Of course a number of different items in a recovery kit that can be used for self recovery or for recovery from another vehicle. Depending on the trip, I've also carried spare starters, fuel pumps and even a complete differential.
In the past 30 years of driving off road and in remote places the only field repairs I've needed to make to my own vehicle that required any parts were belt replacement and a few minor electrical fixes. With a fortunately good track record of not needing extra parts, it doesn't stop me from taking them. I'd rather have it and not need it.
Modern vehicles still have the issue of many computerized systems that is difficult to prepare for and difficult to address in the field.
Personally, besides fluids and a fairly complete tool kit I carry all belts, fuses, electrical repair items. For mechanical parts, I generally carry spare driveshafts (stored under the vehicle), spare axle shafts, ujoints, spare brake pads, spare rod ends, spare hub studs, spare wheel studs and wheel bearings. Various other nuts bolts, various sized o-rings. A way to charge battery powered tools. CO2 tank that can be used for Air tools. Of course a number of different items in a recovery kit that can be used for self recovery or for recovery from another vehicle. Depending on the trip, I've also carried spare starters, fuel pumps and even a complete differential.
In the past 30 years of driving off road and in remote places the only field repairs I've needed to make to my own vehicle that required any parts were belt replacement and a few minor electrical fixes. With a fortunately good track record of not needing extra parts, it doesn't stop me from taking them. I'd rather have it and not need it.
Modern vehicles still have the issue of many computerized systems that is difficult to prepare for and difficult to address in the field.