New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Blaise]

My wife has toured internationally with me on the back of a motorcycle. She's spent plenty of days in non-airconditioned, solid axle jeeps. We've traveled in extremely remote areas with extremely uncomfortable transportation because it was the only way to get around. We've bought the least expensive and most inconvenient 3 legged flights to save money.

Guess what? We're in a modern country and make great money. And it's 2020. We're not gonna suffer through the 1960s to make it 'real' LOL

Thank you, I'll take my modern rover and Ducati Multistrada. Not for a second do I want to go back to a worse machine.

Below... On the Chinese border, two-up on a 109cc scooter. The next two days we didn't touch pavement. I think I'll keep her.

 

[Red90]

My wife daily drives her own Defender and it is what we use on all our travels. It makes a great touring vehicle.

 

[Colin Hughes]

I am being 50% glib and joking and 50% serious when I say that this sentence shows a thought process so alien to me that I literally can't trust anything you say after reading this. I'm not a particular LR fan either. But wow. No comprendo mucho.

Well, it was sitting at about 370,000 kms, it needed all the control arms, rear brakes, emergency brake and the control box for the AB coil conversion kept acting up. I’d had to replace the instrument cluster, rad, coolant expansion tank and the conversion to coils, etc to the tune of about $6k so do do all the other stuff would have had me putting more money into the truck than it was worth. Plus the ongoing can bus issues from salt corrosion. The Jeep could get me to where I wanted to canoe and mt bike, pull my trailer and got much better gas mileage. Dealing with a longer commute, I pulled the trigger. However, the transmission issues and never finding a comfortable seating position had me looking for something else. I made the jump to a 4runner as the equivalent LR vehicle, an LR4, same year and mileage was more than I could afford at the time. I’m quite happy with the 4Runner. Comprendo now?

 

[Scott Brady]

Scots opinion is his opinion
World thinks it the other way around.

What do you think my opinion is?

 

[REDROVER]

Wasn’t your opinion that new defender or any modern Land Rover is as reliable as 100 series land cruiser/ Toyota from 2000 to 2003 era.
Man You been around great 4x4s enough, to know,
100 series is one of the top SUVs in the world.
Resale value, capability, durability, laser cut engineering of that vehicle is unmatched.

 

[Blaise]

What do you think my opinion is?

He thinks your opinion is wrong. lol.

 

[Scott Brady]

Wasn’t your opinion that new defender or any modern Land Rover is as reliable as 100 series land cruiser/ Toyota from 2000 to 2003 era.
Man You been around great 4x4s enough, to know,
100 series is one of the top SUVs in the world.
Resale value, capability, durability, laser cut engineering of that vehicle is unmatched.

My opinion is that the new Defender is an exceptional performer with genuine specs, yet it is unproven.

To dismiss it out of hand is purely confirmation bias, and doesn't serve anyone well. Why wouldn't we want a brand new SUV with a 2,000 pound payload, 35" wading depth, lockers, and a factory raised air intake to be successful?

I did not say that a modern Land Rover is as reliable as a 100. That would be impossible to know. My comment was only that the reliability rating of Land Rover in 2019 is essentially the same of Toyota in 2003. That is a fact, but should of course be interpreted with some caution, as it does not correlate directly. That is a total of all models, and only reflects the first three years. By 10 years, I suspect that gap to widen significantly.

The key takaway for me is that reliability is one component of vehicle selection, and most environments in the world simply do not demand ultimate reliability. Some buyers are nervous travelers, so ultimate reliability is the most important attribute, even if it is a trip along the Mojave Road.

I enjoy Land Rovers for that they are. Even the fact that Land Rover supported the Camel Trophy, or would plan a trip to Namibia like this speaks to the spirit of the brand- should that not be celebrated?

 

[REDROVER]

I really hope defender is a good vehicle.
And I hope that all of our negative views turn out to be wrong.
Only time will tell.

Part of the hate comes not only because of the reliability factor, it’s also the type of buyers it attracts, when you see Kardashian clan driving velvet wrapped Range Rover, and doing defender preview in cochlea, it seems like Land Rover wants those and neglected its enthusiasts.

only time will tell, what’s gonna be like having the new defender.

and by the way this arguments is what makes this country beautiful,
We can argue and disagree and maybe sometimes be a little rude, however at the end we still enjoy watching any Land Rover or 4x4 out playing.

 

[REDROVER]

What’s wrong with not agreeing with someone?
we all have our own ways of looking and translating things.

 

[Blaise]

should that not be celebrated?

You're correct - it should.

But only if it has solid axles and no EAS, and not traction control, AC... etc, etc etc. lol.

I'm with ya. I was super happy when the JL came out, even though it's not for me. And i'll be happy when the new 4Runner and Land Cruiser come out. I don't get all the hate for the Defender finally being here.

 

[nickw]

I really hope defender is a good vehicle.
And I hope that all of our negative views turn out to be wrong.
Only time will tell.

Part of the hate comes not only because of the reliability factor, it’s also the type of buyers it attracts, when you see Kardashian clan driving velvet wrapped Range Rover, and doing defender preview in cochlea, it seems like Land Rover wants those and neglected its enthusiasts.

only time will tell, what’s gonna be like having the new defender.

and by the way this arguments is what makes this country beautiful,
We can argue and disagree and maybe sometimes be a little rude, however at the end we still enjoy watching any Land Rover or 4x4 out playing.

Name another status symbol rig that was extremely high priced when it came out, is based on an military offroad vehicle that has no merit being on road but is driven on road 99.9% of the time and had a certain type of buyer associated with it.....you should know this one.....

Not the Gwagen, although that is a good guess and certainly fits the criteria also.....

 

[REDROVER]

Haha I don’t know any other ?
I am a Land Rover owner, I forget things.

And you right, I argue at the H1 forum because most of them are garage queen and pretending.

I am not picking sides.

 

[soflorovers]

It’s a shame
That you compare Land Rover product ( specifically a vehicle that is not even being sold yet to Toyota 100series.

Scots opinion is his opinion
World thinks it the other way around.

just a shame to compare Land Rover to Toyota Land Cruiser.
Average 100 series has 220.000 miles and still going extra strong and selling way more than junk Rover.
More than 80% of land rovers end up in the junkyard before they hit 120.000 miles

I can’t wait to see the crossover defender on top of the tow trucks, and it’s coming.
So you guys can keep it shut.

Funny, more people seem to side with Scott than you, but hey *shrugs shoulders* whatever. Where are you getting your numbers for the 100 series? Does that include all the ones that have completely rusted out? Also your comment regarding 80% of LR's is trash (unless you're talking about D2's, in which case you may have a point). Go on Autotrader right now and search for LR3's with over 200k miles. There's actually a few of them, and I'd argue there's way more on this forum (There's a thread dedicated to them); mine has 175k HARD miles (My truck is fairly well known around here - plenty of people have already told me about the abuse its taken). The people with high mileage LR3s keep them since they're not worth much due to their unearned negative stigma for unreliability. Whereas some Toyota owners thing a 100 series with 200k is still work over 10k, and one with 300k and tons of rust is worth what a 140k mile LR3 is worth - I'll simply never understand some people. What I don't understand about you in particular is that you're the sort of individual that praises LRs of old, yet you don't understand that the numbers are very clear: LRs have gotten much more reliable and much more capable over the years.

We get it, you're not gonna buy a new Defender. Enjoy the RRC and Defender of old, and when those inevitably fail because you've got a blown headgasket or something else relatively minor leaves you stranded, don't blame the tech. My main issue with your posts is that you speak down to us as if none of us have ever owned LRs of old and new. Many of us have owned plenty of Buick/Rover V8 rigs AND the new air suspension vehicles. I'm honestly shocked you're on this forum. Given your overall attitude and nature, I'm surprised you didn't try posting on here with a typewriter or a carrier pigeon. What's next, gonna convert your RRC/Defender to leaf springs so that it's more in line with the older Series rigs? Gonna pull the synchros out of the trans? Heck, you don't need AC, heat, radio, or insulation, right?

 

[soflorovers]

270K miles on it when it went to its next owner, original engine, never had to do head gaskets, only thing that ever required it going on a tow truck was when the starter died. Even then, I could have bump started it (5 speed) and driven it to the repair shop. It had much less rust (next to none) and a much cleaner interior than any of the high mileage 100 Series trucks I've seen for sale.
I don't know where all these sweeping generalizations come from - More than 80% of land rovers end up in the junkyard before they hit 120.000 miles - me thinks someone's hooked on the Fox "Fake News" channel. This thread definitely provides entertainment while I'm in self-isolation. Flame away lads!
View attachment 576312

She's...she's...she's beautiful

 

[soflorovers]

In my experience the old Land Rovers are no less reliable than other comparable vehicles.

The new ones are quite bad compared to similar new vehicles. This is the opinion of every owner I personally now that has bought one new in the last ten years. There is no reason to believe that the new Defender will be any different.

Sounds like you need to make new friends.