New Scout Electric SUV from VW

[Todd n Natalie]

Looks like they might be planning a 2 door Bronco / Wrangler competitor. That could be interseting!

Scout Already Planning A Two Door Convertible As A Third Model - AutoSpies Auto News

Scout Already Planning A Two Door Convertible As A Third Model

www.autospies.com

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I’d like to see the truck side by side with a Rivian.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

I’d like to see the truck side by side with a Rivian.

Scout's are much bigger than their Rivian counter parts. Scout truck is a foot longer than the Rivian.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/rivian-vs-scout-range-performance-tech-dimensions-and-more

 

[Christian P.]

They got my deposit. I'll trade in my Rav4 Prime for that!

 

[crazysccrmd]

Scout's are much bigger than their Rivian counter parts. Scout truck is a foot longer than the Rivian.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/rivian-vs-scout-range-performance-tech-dimensions-and-more

That article has the wrong measurements - comparing mirrors out with mirrors in for example.

The R1T measures 79 inches across, compared to the Terra which measures the same 91.6 inches.

Mirrors unfolded width (inches)
- Rivian R1: 87.1
- Scout: 91.6
- F150 Lightning: 96.0

Length (inches)
- Rivian R1S: 200.8
- Scout SUV: 207.9 (without spare tire)
- Rivian R1T: 217.1
- Scout Truck: 229.2
- F150 Lightning: 232.7

 

[Maddmatt]

Can't wait - I learned to drive in an SSII, so this is like full-circle for me. I dropped the $100 on the Terra with range extender as soon as I could, then I watched a couple reveal videos (I always like the TFL guys for that stuff) and immediately put in a second deposit for the Traveler. Gives me 2 years to find the cash before I have to make a decision.

At $60k these will be a steal based on the current state of the market, and at $100k I'd still rather have one than a Rivian (which I was considering).

Like others have said, it's the range extender that does it - most of my driving would happily fall within the full electric range of just about anything on the market, but the whole point of living in Colorado is that I can be far from a charging point very quickly - great peace of mind to have that gasoline backup.

 

[jchasse]

So if what I've seen is accurate, for the models with the range extender, the "EV only" range (i.e. no gas in it) is only 150 miles. But ~500 miles total with the extender in use? (The range extender versions have smaller batteries than the pure EV versions. But that ratio still fundamentally seems odd to me, but what do I know.)

And if i understand it, the range extender is essentialy a gas generator to charge the batteries? What's it going to sound like driving one of these? (I already have a deposit down, so I'm not being critical...just curious.)

I'll grill a good friend of mine who just got re-positioned from Rivian's software team to the Rivian/VW joint venture, so he's working on the battery management software for the Scout. I've already told him he gets zero days off for the next 3 years

 

[driveby]

Given that mileage can reduce 1-2% per 100# of tow, that means a 5000# trailer reduces range by ~50%. I'm not sure if that holds true for EV or not, that's a gas mileage hit based on generic averages etc. But that means you'll be overlanding on mostly gas power. For me, 90% of my driving is local and slow, so EV makes a ton of sense. For the long haul trips I'd be on gas. It's still a heck of a work around till battery tech gives us more range....

 

[Cabrito]

As a former Scout II owner I love it, and like how they kept a few body style bits to make it look like a Scout.

 

[shortbus4x4]

So if what I've seen is accurate, for the models with the range extender, the "EV only" range (i.e. no gas in it) is only 150 miles. But ~500 miles total with the extender in use? (The range extender versions have smaller batteries than the pure EV versions. But that ratio still fundamentally seems odd to me, but what do I know.)

And if i understand it, the range extender is essentialy a gas generator to charge the batteries? What's it going to sound like driving one of these? (I already have a deposit down, so I'm not being critical...just curious.)

I'll grill a good friend of mine who just got re-positioned from Rivian's software team to the Rivian/VW joint venture, so he's working on the battery management software for the Scout. I've already told him he gets zero days off for the next 3 years

Time for you to interrogate your friend.

I work for an International dealer and work on a few electric school buses. Wasn't keen on electric but they sure are nice. Wish they would go with a plug in hybrid like the Chevy Volt.

And I got a Terra and Traveler reserved.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a62785957/scout-motors-direct-sales-model-legal-action/

 

[jchasse]

The more I think about this the more curious I become. If driving one sounds like driving an EV with a little gas generator running in it somewhere, that's 100% a deal killer. I'm sure that's not what they're going to cook up, but what? Fake ICE exhaust noise over the audio system?

 

[PNWDad]

Put my deposit down during the presentation for a Terra Harvester. Going to be along 3 year wait ..

Anyways the rear axle is going to be an E-Beam. Looks to be a new custom made model, not one already released.

Most currently used E-beams use a banjo style housing with an electric motor and gear set where the gears go in.


Current trend is to incorporate the invertor into the same assembly, using the axle oil to cool the invertor. Also invertors are now silicon carbide so they are smaller, lightweight, etc. I guess this is called a 3 in 1 e-beam. Here is a ZF model made for 3500 pickups:
Nice but off-road it's too big. You can see their oil cooled invertor on the front under the orange DC plug.

Here is another model from Magna also for the 3500 pickup market. Very large.


If you look at the Scout release they have a similar 3 in 1 E-beam but it's narrower and taller. In the front is a large metal pan that looks like a transmission pan probably holding the invertor. The bottom of the Scout axle is flat and beefy. The motor is on top of the axle, not in front.

The company I think is producing the Scout axle patented a planetary gear set idea in 2017ish, where a motor on top of an axle uses a planetary gear set to provide power. Their CEO talks about the benefits of a smaller motor with lots of gearing vs a large direct drive motor in a few YouTube interviews. This idea allows a very small motor, combined with the recent small silicon carbide oil cooled invertors, and I think we have a winning package.

 

[3laine]

If driving one sounds like driving an EV with a little gas generator running in it somewhere, that's 100% a deal killer.

I'm guessing it's kinda going to sound like that.

That's what it sounds like in the BMW i3 we owned, which is a similar principle.

Follow-up novel/rabbit trail:

That said, the i3 has a ~35hp generator. I don't know if they've said what the power is for the Scouts, but the Ramcharger has a normal ~3.7L V6 as the generator because 1) the average power usage is obviously WAY higher in a Ram, especially when towing, 2) it's what Stellantis has available, and 3) it's way more buffer for people who are stupid and show up at the bottom of a mountain with a dead battery and expect the engine to be the SOLE power source, which is not the right way to run a serial PHEV.

The *right* way to run a serial PHEV is to run the engine well BEFORE you need it, allowing it to keep the battery charged, giving you a power buffer when you need to pass or when the right-sized generator cannot handle a temporary additional load completely on it's own.

But people don't think ahead, and they think they can drive up a mountain at 75 mph with a 34hp generator with a dead battery, and when they can't, they sue BMW (yes, this is a real example).

So, now, Ram is offering a full-size engine, and a full-size battery (virtually the same size as the "standard range" F150 Lightning), but they're rating the battery at far lower range. Why? Because, I believe, they're holding back a BUNCH of battery for the people who show up at the bottom of a mountain with no battery at all, and want to drive 75mph up a mountain towing an 35' Airstream Classic so that stupid people don't have to do even the most basic thinking/planning, so they've hamstrung/deoptimized normal operation to be a buffer to protect against braindead usage.

That's my theory on the Ramcharger, anyway, but the point is generally true for any serial PHEV. Optimal design requires people to use their brain/plan to avoid unnecessarily oversizing the battery/engine, and that's what makes designing them hard, especially if people are going to push the envelope. You almost HAVE to substantially overdesign capability and block people from using it except in emergencies to keep people from getting in over their heads due to poor planning.

 

[Jeremy P.]

I'm guessing it's kinda going to sound like that.

That's what it sounds like in the BMW i3 we owned, which is a similar principle.

Follow-up novel/rabbit trail:

That said, the i3 has a ~35hp generator. I don't know if they've said what the power is for the Scouts, but the Ramcharger has a normal ~3.7L V6 as the generator because 1) the average power usage is obviously WAY higher in a Ram, especially when towing, 2) it's what Stellantis has available, and 3) it's way more buffer for people who are stupid and show up at the bottom of a mountain with a dead battery and expect the engine to be the SOLE power source, which is not the right way to run a serial PHEV.

The *right* way to run a serial PHEV is to run the engine well BEFORE you need it, allowing it to keep the battery charged, giving you a power buffer when you need to pass or when the right-sized generator cannot handle a temporary additional load completely on it's own.

But people don't think ahead, and they think they can drive up a mountain at 75 mph with a 34hp generator with a dead battery, and when they can't, they sue BMW (yes, this is a real example).

So, now, Ram is offering a full-size engine, and a full-size battery (virtually the same size as the "standard range" F150 Lightning), but they're rating the battery at far lower range. Why? Because, I believe, they're holding back a BUNCH of battery for the people who show up at the bottom of a mountain with no battery at all, and want to drive 75mph up a mountain towing an 35' Airstream Classic so that stupid people don't have to do even the most basic thinking/planning, so they've hamstrung/deoptimized normal operation to be a buffer to protect against braindead usage.

That's my theory on the Ramcharger, anyway, but the point is generally true for any serial PHEV. Optimal design requires people to use their brain/plan to avoid unnecessarily oversizing the battery/engine, and that's what makes designing them hard, especially if people are going to push the envelope. You almost HAVE to substantially overdesign capability and block people from using it except in emergencies to keep people from getting in over their heads due to poor planning.

I thought I heard on a podcast the ramcharger engine would turn on at perhaps 30% charge remaining, and around 60% when towing? I coded our i3 so the engine can be turned on anytime below 75% charge, but it definitely gets noisy as it revs up higher the further below the charge setpoint it gets, like when going up a long grade. In our case a long grade is going up to the Grand Mesa where the highway goes from 5k feet to 10k feet in about 15 miles. Of course in our normal daily use it's usually weeks or months between the engine needing to run.