new to me 89 4-runner, looking for info

[pcampbell]

I had 15x8 of unknown backspacing. They did stick out some which allowed the tires to protect the sheet metal in many instances. The problem with 15x7 is going to be tire wear. it's gonna bulge quite a bit and wear out the middle with much road driving.

Pics here:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=429657&postcount=57

The PO cut a part of the front fender behind the tire. It wasn't needed though except to make it look like crap.

The pinch weld on the front inner fender is one possible contact point when the tire is turned at full lock. A BFH might fix it, especially with the minimal flex of the IFS. Solid axle rigs often have to "tub" the area, even after moving the axle forward to typical 1". I didn't have to after my SAS but the body lift was likely the reason.

On the rear, it's tough to cut enough without getting into the inner fender which will expose the interior of the truck. Welding in a strip of sheet metal will cover it.

 

[hillbillyjake]

ya, i was kinda thinking i was going ro have to put some metal back in the rear fenders when i got done. oh well. maybe i will try the 15x8 and see what they are like. if they dont stick out to far then i wont worry about it. i just dont want any problems getting it inspected or with the cops around town. we'll see.

jake

 

[hillbillyjake]

well, i took out the plastic inside the rear cargo area o get a look at the work involved to make the 35's fit and i just dont think it's gonna happen. i just think there would be a huge amount of sheetmetal work involve dto even coem close. plus i think that 35's woukld compromise the style of build i'm looking for. i think i may go with 15x7 like i previously mentioned with 33x10.50 km2's. i think this will get me very close to being covered by the fenders plus be more manageable for the truck

also, took the front sway bar off tonight. it looked like it may have been limiting travel from what i could tell. any personal experience with driving with the sway bar off? i don't want an indy car but i dont want dangerous either. ran out of time tonight so i will drive it tomorrow to find out.

jake

 

[BLKNBLU]

well, i took out the plastic inside the rear cargo area o get a look at the work involved to make the 35's fit and i just dont think it's gonna happen. i just think there would be a huge amount of sheetmetal work involve dto even coem close. plus i think that 35's woukld compromise the style of build i'm looking for. i think i may go with 15x7 like i previously mentioned with 33x10.50 km2's. i think this will get me very close to being covered by the fenders plus be more manageable for the truck

also, took the front sway bar off tonight. it looked like it may have been limiting travel from what i could tell. any personal experience with driving with the sway bar off? i don't want an indy car but i dont want dangerous either. ran out of time tonight so i will drive it tomorrow to find out.

jake

You will be able to fit 33/1050 with no lift. Maybe some pinchweld pounding. Maybe a touch of t bar crank. You will want to re-gear though with the 33's. I ran 31's on the stock gearing and it was a little doggy but acceptable. I think 33s would have been a drag.

On the swaybar you will get mixed opinions. Most will say do it. I'm one of the few against it. I don't think the benefits are worth the risk. In another thread I semi-related an incident I had years ago with my runner where I was cut off on the freeway at 55mph and I had to jerk hard left and then right again with 3 other passengers in the truck. I don't know how we didn't tip or how I didn't soil myself but it was close. I hate to think of how it would have turned out with any less stability.

That said, swaybar removal will absolutely increase travel, but it's all down travel which is not really useful in an IFS rig. If you lift a tire does it matter if it's 3" off the ground or 1"? Not really. Without a locker your fronts have stopped turning. Even if it's just barely touching the ground is it doing you any good? The IFS front solution is an ARB. The truck won't feel much different with it off. (I know, like a dip**** I tried it for a couple weeks despite my history) But the reality is you aren't going to recreate a real emergency move when you're checking it out in a parking lot somewhere. It'll be on the road some night at 50-60 mph with a totally black cow in the middle of the road.

Sorry. My 0.02 :smiley_drive:

 

[pcampbell]

If the question is will 35s fit, and will the IFS survive if you are sensible about driving it? Yes.

If the question is are 35s necessary, especially for an expo style rig, and are they even a serious compromise for that application...I say yes.

If I were to do it again, from scratch, starting with a 1st or 2nd gen IFS rig, I would stay around a 33x10.50, no lift, and focus on armor. Everything will do better, parts, gas mileage, etc etc. And you will not notice the difference.

I have a friend with a 1990 4runner. Bone stock except for sliders, 33x10.50 tires, and a small spacer in the back to level it out. It has 220k+ miles on it, a junky 3.0 V6 that is just about on its last leg, and he has followed our group through every single trail, all the way to 4 diamond difficulty. Sure, he had some trouble on the more extreme stuff, but more often than not, that tough little truck just took him to the top, everytime.

For what you are doing, you will likely go everywhere you want. Driving skills will get you a million times farther than 35" tires. For insurance, get a good winch, carry a few spare parts, brace the idler arm, armor it, and put a locker out back to seal the deal. Gears are also a wise investment, but you may be able to live with 4.88s with the 33s.

I'm now building a 3rd gen 4runner with pretty much that formula, except it will have a minor lift, otherwise pretty basic.

So, despite my long winded ranting about 35s, if you are asking an opinion on what alternatives, 33s really do make more sense....to me anyway.

 

[BLKNBLU]

If the question is will 35s fit, and will the IFS survive if you are sensible about driving it? Yes.

If the question is are 35s necessary, especially for an expo style rig, and are they even a serious compromise for that application...I say yes.

If I were to do it again, from scratch, starting with a 1st or 2nd gen IFS rig, I would stay around a 33x10.50, no lift, and focus on armor. Everything will do better, parts, gas mileage, etc etc. And you will not notice the difference.

I have a friend with a 1990 4runner. Bone stock except for sliders, 33x10.50 tires, and a small spacer in the back to level it out. It has 220k+ miles on it, a junky 3.0 V6 that is just about on its last leg, and he has followed our group through every single trail, all the way to 4 diamond difficulty. Sure, he had some trouble on the more extreme stuff, but more often than not, that tough little truck just took him to the top, everytime.

For what you are doing, you will likely go everywhere you want. Driving skills will get you a million times farther than 35" tires. For insurance, get a good winch, carry a few spare parts, brace the idler arm, armor it, and put a locker out back to seal the deal. Gears are also a wise investment, but you may be able to live with 4.88s with the 33s.

I'm now building a 3rd gen 4runner with pretty much that formula, except it will have a minor lift, otherwise pretty basic.

So, despite my long winded ranting about 35s, if you are asking an opinion on what alternatives, 33s really do make more sense....to me anyway.

Completely agree. As I was gathering parts for my SAS, I got my truck adequately armored and locked in the rear. At that point I started following the big boys almost everywhere. Somewhere in that timeframe I also discovered ExPo and really began to wonder what I wanted to do with the rig. In the end I went ahead with the SAS but I think the truck is really too big for long trips. I'll give it a season of hard wheeling to see if it settles a bit but I'm already casting my glance around for another truck (oy) to set up for ExPo.

 

[hillbillyjake]

drove it without the sway bar tonight and didn't really notice it being off. i think it will stay off.

i think for my needs at this time i am going to go with 33's, locker in the rear, and regear 4.88 or 5.29's. after that i will focus on theh utmost in reliabilty. i go to pirate and see guys with no lift and 35's and kinda lose focus with where i want to go with this ride. thanks to everyone for keeping on the groound. i wont do alot of highway driving with this rig when its done so i may go with 5.29. mr decisive strikes again. thanks again for all the info.

jake

 

[hillbillyjake]

also, any suggestions on gears (brands) and where to pick them up?

locker experiences and recomendations?

jake

 

[BLKNBLU]

Just say no to the 5.29s. I have them with 35s and I think its too much. We are talking about nearly the same thing here.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27502

That thread has these calculators. I found the 4x4offroads one and dustboy found the Randys R&P one. I think the 4x4 one only calculates for 4th gear. I think your truck calculates out to 4.66 gears based on a stock tire of 29" (235/75/15) Crunch the 4.56s, 4.88s, and 5.29s as you see fit through both of those calcs and see where you think you would want to be. Keep in mind the result from the 4x4 calc should be close to the result of "manual" on Randy's if I'm reading this thing right.
http://www.4x4offroads.com/gear-ratio-chart.html
http://www.ringpinion.com/Calc_RPM.aspx

I have a rear lock right that I like very well, but I've never had to deal with snow/ice yet so... but for the price it's fantastic.

 

[hillbillyjake]

did the install of the exhaust manifold and down pipe. i thought that would eleviate the ticking under the hood from the cracked exhaust manifold but it is still ticking just as loud. my guess is the timing chain. i am going to try ordering the engnbldr kit this week. it's a have to do any way but i'm hoping it will quiet thing s down. will see.

jake

 

[hillbillyjake]

have decided on 33's and 4.88's. what year(s) came with the factory 4.88's that will fiti my 89 4 runner? i would love to be able to pick up a set of front/rear center sections to just bolt in. what should i be looking for? will this work?

 

[bmh]

did the install of the exhaust manifold and down pipe. i thought that would eleviate the ticking under the hood from the cracked exhaust manifold but it is still ticking just as loud. my guess is the timing chain. i am going to try ordering the engnbldr kit this week. it's a have to do any way but i'm hoping it will quiet thing s down. will see.

jake

tapping valves make a very loud tapping.

As for gearing, I think you should buy a couple gear sets and install kits. All new parts make for peace of mind.

 

[BLKNBLU]

tapping valves make a very loud tapping.

As for gearing, I think you should buy a couple gear sets and install kits. All new parts make for peace of mind.

x2 on that. If this is your first 22re, keep in mind that the valves are noisy on these engines.

In regards to the 4.88s, keep in mind that the factory rear thirds can't be set up with anything else as far as gears. If you break one, it's Toyota only for replacements. If you decide on a different size, aftermarket gears won't work. OTOH if you are dead certain about 4.88s it is an economical solution.

Some mention of it here.
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=2790.0

I'll try to find what had the 4.88s. I think it was 89-95 auto tranny V6s with the 31" tire option but I'm not sure.

 

[bmh]

OTOH if you are dead certain about 4.88s it is an economical solution.

not necessarily. Around here a 3rd can go for as much as 150 per, especially if it's one with 4.88 (which are rare-er than the others). For 300 bones you should be able to find gears and install kits. Only problem is the install. If you are local to Colorado I can pass along the number of a guy who will set them up for 150 a diff. 600 bucks and you should be good to go. It sounds like a lot of money, but if there is one thing I have learned while modding my truck, it's to do it once - do it right. Otherwise you will spend more money in the long run.

 

[hillbillyjake]

not local to colorado by about 2k miles. if i could find some one around here to set my gears up for $150 apiece and do a good job i would definetly go that route, but i have heard nothing but bad about the local shops. i talked with east coast gear supply and he wants $1200 for f/r gears and a spool w/ a 5 year warranty. i'm considering this but it seems like ALOT of money. opinions on this are welcome. so likke i need to scratch the factory 4.88's. thanks again

jake