Odyssey vs. Diehard Platinum

[Hilldweller]

Um...if you had such great results...why did you need so many?...

Life-safety systems.
Using an intelligent battery tester, federal code mandated replacement when the batteries dropped to 60% of rated amperage capacity.
Depending on where the system was located, some of the off-brand (read: Chinese) batteries would be toast in a year. But I'd often see Interstates happily humming along for more than 6 years.

Sometimes I went through hundreds of batteries in a week. Summer in Florida is brutal on batteries.
I had my choice of what batteries to sell; I got them all for about the same price in bulk. A dollar or 3 more for an Interstate made sense to me but some customers wanted "the cheapest" I had and they got it.
I liked Interstate the best because of the huge range of sizes that they offered. Little, big, odd shapes, didn't matter; my supplier almost always had them and I could get them right away.

 

[spressomon]

Related: Exide filed for bankruptcy protection this week.

 

[ebg18t]

Related: Exide filed for bankruptcy protection this week.

Hopefully this restructuring helps.

Quote From the biz news:

Exide, a Big Maker of Car Batteries, Files for Bankruptcy
BY MICHAEL J. DE LA MERCED
Exide Technologies, a major manufacturer of car and truck batteries, filed for bankruptcy protection on Monday as it sought to repair its finances amid rising costs for materials and the shutdown of an important operation.

As of March 31, Exide had $1.9 billion in assets and $1.1 billion in liabilities, according to a court filing with the federal bankruptcy court in Delaware.

The company will continue to operate normally while in Chapter 11, and has secured $500 million in financing from JPMorgan Chase to keep its operations running. It also named Robert M. Caruso of the consulting firm Alvarez & Marsal as its chief restructuring officer.

In a court filing, the company cited the price of scrap lead in North America, which accounts for 40 percent of its costs of goods sold. It has also grappled with intense competition from its primary rival, Johnson Controls, which poached Wal-Mart Stores as an exclusive customer.

Exide had also struggled with its big exposure to the European market, which makes up more than 51 percent of its revenue. The company also faced $31 million in debt interest payments due in August and $51.9 million worth of bonds maturing in September.

In perhaps the final straw, Exide experienced an enormous setback when California's Department of Toxic Substances Control ordered the suspension of a lead recycling facility for failing to comply with state regulations.

Exide's shares have fallen 92 percent in the last 12 months, closing on Friday at 20 cents apiece.

“Our restructuring will allow us to strengthen our balance sheet and complete the operational changes that build upon the strategies that we have been pursuing,” James R. Bolch, Exide's chief executive, said in a statement. “Over and above these efforts, we intend to become even more aggressive in reducing costs, taking actions with respect to underperforming business segments and to focus on the most attractive areas for future growth.”

Its biggest unsecured creditors include Wilmington Trust, which represents $51.9 million worth of bonds, and the Oracle Corporation.

The company, based in Milton, Ga., has 3,600 employees.

It is being advised by Lazard and the law firms Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom and Pachulski Stang Ziehl & Jones.

 

[teotwaki]

Life-safety systems.
Using an intelligent battery tester, federal code mandated replacement when the batteries dropped to 60% of rated amperage capacity.
Depending on where the system was located, some of the off-brand (read: Chinese) batteries would be toast in a year. But I'd often see Interstates happily humming along for more than 6 years.

Sometimes I went through hundreds of batteries in a week. Summer in Florida is brutal on batteries.
I had my choice of what batteries to sell; I got them all for about the same price in bulk. A dollar or 3 more for an Interstate made sense to me but some customers wanted "the cheapest" I had and they got it.
I liked Interstate the best because of the huge range of sizes that they offered. Little, big, odd shapes, didn't matter; my supplier almost always had them and I could get them right away.

Dang, don't confuse us with FACTS! Fingerpointing and mudslinging are acceptable but please no facts, LOL :elkgrin:

 

[ETAV8R]

Guess I can take that "used" Exide off my list.

 

[tperkins]

Just had my father pick up a Group 34 to install in my Dakota since the battery has crapped out since I've been gone. This way I'll have running vehicle when I get home in a week or so.

Paid $183.99

 

[teotwaki]

time to necromance this thread!

I am watching for a sale on the Diehard Platinum batteries. I installed mine in March of 2009 and it is a little bit down in specs. After a good charge and sitting at rest it will settle to 12.5 volts and roughly 715 CCA

If someone spots a new sale please post up!

 

[remote camper]

time to necromance this thread!

I am watching for a sale on the Diehard Platinum batteries. I installed mine in March of 2009 and it is a little bit down in specs. After a good charge and sitting at rest it will settle to 12.5 volts and roughly 715 CCA

If someone spots a new sale please post up!

Am looking to put Diehards (or Odysseys) in an Xterra and a Forester. So, if I run across a sale, will post back. The Platinums might be harder to find as Sears' financial troubles mount. If that happens, will just go to Odyssey.

Since the Platinums are a rebranded Odyssey, it follows that their charging needs would be the same. Have confirmed that with their engineering staff. If you maintain your battery according to Odyssey's recommeded charge profile, you can ignore the additional input below. Otherwise, hope it can help somebody.

Your battery might benefit from desulfation with a 2012-AGM from the BatteryMinder folks. I have 2 Platinums in my Powerstroke and keep them at above 12.9 volts when resting at 77 deg F. Most of the time when the truck is not in use, I keep them floating at 13.6 volts @ 77 deg F with full time desulfation. Battery charging voltage must be raised when it gets colder and decreased when it gets warmer. The 2012-AGM takes care of that automatically. Just try to wedge or duct tape the temp sensor pigtail so that it senses battery temp and not ambient or get the longer temp sensor cable. The 2012-AGM is about $72 right now on Amazon. It should be fine as long as your Platinum hasn't been deeply discharged or deep cycled. I can't promise it will recover your Platinum. I think it's worth a try, though.

If deep discharge or deep cycling is the case, then Odyssey recommends a more aggressive charging profile that its Utimizer chargers are designed to provide and include desulfation. Here is a typical charge profile: http://www.odysseybattery.com/ultimizer.aspx. Note the higher absorption and float voltages. They are also designed to provide an inrush of current in the bulk stage for deeply discharged batteries that is better suited to the Odyssey's unique construction and chemistry.

Refer to the Support section of their website to choose the right charger for your battery. I know the 25 amp Ultimizer is also available on Amazon and is the minimum recommended for the batteries I run on the Powerstroke. I don't think the 2012-AGM is an approved Odyssey charger, but from my discussion with their engineering staff, as long as the battery never sees a deep discharge, it's charge profile and desulfation will be fine. Even if the 2012-AGM desulfator can't rescue your current battery, it can take better care of your new one.

Platinums (Odyssey) batteries cost a lot more to acquire and prefer higher absorption and float voltages to obtain maximum life that regular flooded battery chargers aren't able to provide. So, there is also the additional initial cost of a suitable charger that many aren't willing to spring for. If one can be happy with about 25% less life, then pass on the better charger. All AGMs are not the same as there are some that are designed only as starting batteries and are said to be happy with regular charge profiles. However, their performance doesn't hold a candle to that of the Odyssey.

 

[mhiscox]

Thanks for taking the time to write this detailed information. Much appreciated.

 

[dstock]

I've noticed both my Diehard Platinums are resting at about 12.2-12.3 when I check them after sitting overnight. I had some recent issue with my NL system not charging my aux battery in high ambient temperatures. The starting battery never had a charging issue, and after switching out components the NL system seems to be operating normally. The batteries are 2 years old at the most and the alternator is charging at the 14.1-3 range.
I haven't changed anything electrical wise on the JK so I am not aware of any parasitic drain, and since it is happening to both batteries equally, I'm wondering if I need to explore Ultimizer option, or if the NL system just can't handle the demands of the Platinum/Odyssey batteries.

 

[teotwaki]

I've noticed both my Diehard Platinums are resting at about 12.2-12.3 when I check them after sitting overnight. I had some recent issue with my NL system not charging my aux battery in high ambient temperatures. The starting battery never had a charging issue, and after switching out components the NL system seems to be operating normally. The batteries are 2 years old at the most and the alternator is charging at the 14.1-3 range.
I haven't changed anything electrical wise on the JK so I am not aware of any parasitic drain, and since it is happening to both batteries equally, I'm wondering if I need to explore Ultimizer option, or if the NL system just can't handle the demands of the Platinum/Odyssey batteries.

Bypass the National Luna system and wire your starter battery normally to the vehicle's stock harness. See if it charges normally and go from there.

 

[teotwaki]

-----------------snip---------Platinums (Odyssey) batteries cost a lot more to acquire ---------------------snip-------------.

A cheaper battery might be about half of the D/H Platinum but might last 2 1/2 years. Maybe $90 vs $180? My D/H Platinum is close to 6 years old.

Is there a AGM battery that is significantly cheaper than $180 that will last 6 years?

 

[dstock]

Bypass the National Luna system and wire your starter battery normally to the vehicle's stock harness. See if it charges normally and go from there.

Yeah, since it take about 2 secs to bypass it, that will be my first step.

 

[remote camper]

I've noticed both my Diehard Platinums are resting at about 12.2-12.3 when I check them after sitting overnight. I had some recent issue with my NL system not charging my aux battery in high ambient temperatures. The starting battery never had a charging issue, and after switching out components the NL system seems to be operating normally. The batteries are 2 years old at the most and the alternator is charging at the 14.1-3 range.
I haven't changed anything electrical wise on the JK so I am not aware of any parasitic drain, and since it is happening to both batteries equally, I'm wondering if I need to explore Ultimizer option, or if the NL system just can't handle the demands of the Platinum/Odyssey batteries.

1) It sounds to me like your Platinums are being slowly killed off. Are they installed in parallel in a system when you observe these voltages? (I don't know what a JK is so I don't know if there is a parasitic drain.) What loads are the Platinums experiencing? Here is a chart showing what your state of charge is based on your voltage measurements http://www.odysseybatteries.co.nz/Support/StateofCharge/tabid/782/Default.aspx. Got this from a New Zealand location. Was having trouble finding a suitable chart at Odyssey's main site here in the US.

2) Smart charging systems are supposed to stop charging when temperatures exceed certain limits. Temperature compensating chargers are best oriented to battery temperature instead of ambient. I can't remember the exact (battery) temp charging should cease, but I think it's around 122 deg F.

3) Alternator charging voltage provided is really not sufficient to fully charge the Platinum in the absorption stage. The battery needs 14.7 volts to be able to accept all the current it can take. When battery current drops to <100ma, charging voltage should drop to float of ~13.6 volts. This is not the way alternators are designed to operate. Here is a link to the Technical Manual describing in greater depth the needs for these batteries. http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-001_0411_000.pdf . While there is a lot of information here one can get lost in, the important thing is to have the correct charger. There is a way to charge the battery manually, but I don't recommend it unless you have time to baby sit the process and follow it to the letter.

4) I am guessing that the NL system is a "National Lunar" system. I'm not familiar with it. All I can offer is that for the maximum life to be extracted from the Platinums, the charge profile of your charging system should be what Odyssey recommends. So, I suggest comparing the NL systems charge profile to the recommended Odyssey charging profile. I would abandon the NL system if it isn't up to the task.

 

[remote camper]

A cheaper battery might be about half of the D/H Platinum but might last 2 1/2 years. Maybe $90 vs $180? My D/H Platinum is close to 6 years old.

Is there a AGM battery that is significantly cheaper than $180 that will last 6 years?

I doubt it. But I hestitate to say absolutely not because it might depend on your application. It might last many, many years if kept at 100% SOC and used only as a light duty backup that would preclude even a single deep discharge. In this class of battery, you get what you pay for. I doubt seriously that a $90 AGM is going to have deep cycle capability. Having that ability speaks to how well it will recover from a deep discharge, even if it's only accidental or occasional. Most of the AGMs sold at a popular chain warehouse (S*Ms) are not deep cycle rated as is the Platinum/Odyssey.

You might still be able to recover some life in those 6 year old batteries. The only way to find out is to try. But after 6 years, don't know how much time you'd be willing to dedicate to that!!