Packing Heat...who does it?

[valkyrie]

Smart decisions and planning play an important roll, and are an important tool in avoiding conflict; a gun is just another tool in the bag. Your brain is the deciding factor.

One of the most relevant observations yet in this thread.

I think the biggest problem with this board is most people tend to see others as they see themselves.

Not just this board, but people in general.

Lots of talk and assumptions about escalating hostilities, little to none about diffusing hostilities... interestingly most of the escalation talk is from those who remain adamantly unarmed and therefore, assumed to have not been in a position where another course of action may have been warranted.

Again, these deeply personal choices with regard to preparation are beyond judgment, in my view at least. I can no more criticize someone for their decision to rely on either their wits or Divine Providence than anyone can criticize my decision on when and where I chose to retain my right to self defense... and when, if ever I feel the need to exercise that right.

I believe either decision with such potentially severe consequences deserves respect, not condemnation.

 

[Wanderlusty]

I don't carry, or even own a gun. I have no regrets about doing so. It is unlikely this will change. I am at ease with not being armed.

I understand fully the risks that come with choosing not to carry. I also understand fully the risks that come with choosing to carry.

I have friends who do carry. Several with conceal and carry permits. I am completely at ease around them when they are armed, and trust their judgement.

Whether you carry or don't, in some way or another you take on a certain level of risk. How you choose to handle that risk is completely your call (in this country, at least for now) and as long as you are aware of the dangers and risks of either carrying or not carrying, and accept that as part of the package, then there is no wrong decision.

In other words:

If you carrry...good for you.

If you don't....good for you.

 

[Antichrist]

The most important thing in deciding to carry a handgun for self defense, aside from learning how to safely carry and accurately use it, is to know when to use it.

A gun can be used to threaten other people, a gun is intended to use to threaten other people, when carried in public.

No, not to threaten. To shoot someone. A gun should not be drawn unless you are prepared to shoot. Sometimes the threat leaves when the gun is drawn, but one cannot count on that.

A gun can lead to escalation, as mentioned many times in this thread.

It can, but if one learns when to use it, the vast majority of times it won't.

And a guy who is not aware of the aura created by carrying a gun shold not do so!

Aura created for whom? I lean towards concealed carry, so if I were carrying, there would be no aura created for others. If I were carrying, the only aura created for me would be to know that I could defend myself or another. It's not an aura of shooting anyone who looks at me crosseyed.

I ran into armed groups quite some times while travelling in the sahara or even in the woods of Berkshire MA, a gun wouldn´t have helped but would have led to escalation.
We have been assaulted once in France waiting for the ferry to Tunis, beeing so angry that if I had a gun, violence would have increased or I might even have shot the next guy just looking at our car, not wanting to rob us...

If you carrying a gun would have automatically lead to escalation or shooting someone looking at your car, then I agree, you shouldn't carry a gun.

but the only weapon we carry along is pepper-spray and a big mag-light and our tongue...

You don't think pepper-spray or a mag-light can lead to escalation? Particularly the pepper spray, considering that what is available for civilians is weak and many people are more or less impervious to it.

As for the people who speak of running in to meth labs in the middle of nowhere, who in their right mind would quickly pull out a gun when approaching a house with openly armed people greeting you? Even if you have a gun, why not just say you're lost, and ask for directions?
I suppose some might pull their weapon, but that's what Darwin awards are for, I think.

 

[Maximus Ram]

13 pages..wow:Wow1: and haven't read anything new on either side.
personal choice, personal responsibility


seems to be time for this thread to be closed..please

Great thing about America.. we have a Choice and the Right
use it or not, that's up to the individual.

Have a Good Day, Everyone:coffeedrink:

 

[Colorado David]

The vast majority of time you spend in a concealed carry class covers your legal obligations as an armed civilian. It is seriously drummed into you. There is no thought of bravado or tough-guy gun threats. You are legally obligated in the strictest sense. Your concealed carry weapon is used only to prevent your (or a member of your family's) death or severe bodily injury. You are authorized to use deadly force ONLY to eliminate the threat and you do not become the police auxiliary. Thus, if you are attacked and you draw your weapon and your attacker leaves, you cannot shoot. You have no legal authority to pursue. When the threat is neutralized, you are done. People who make broad statements that the presence of the gun causes an escalation have no understanding of the extremely tight legal parameters of civilian concealed carry. If you want to know the parameters, take the class. Having the class does not obligate you to apply for the license. If you're not willing to spend the hours in class, there are a number of good books available. Simply making statements or taking an opinionated stand out of ignorance does nothing. When I see this subject come up I try to refrain from commenting, but at some point the willful misinformation gets the best of me. When you draw your weapon, a long and painful legal process is begun. You have made a choice to protect your life or the lives of your loved ones not to show who's the toughest guy. If someone is breaking into your car to steal the stereo, you are not authorized to draw your weapon or confront them. They are not posing a threat of death or serious bodily harm.

 

[Schattenjager]

13 pages..wow:Wow1: and haven't read anything new on either side.
personal choice, personal responsibility


seems to be time for this thread to be closed..please

If you do not like this thread, I would urge you to read something else. 13 pages of civil discourse about this very topic illustrates many interesting and varied view points. Much like the fire side chats I have had over the years, opinions vary, but the fun is in the exchange of ideas. Not premature, unmerited, and obviously unwanted by the participants, censorship. This thread will die on the vine when the appropriate time comes from new interests etc.

I know of no other forum in which this topic can carry 13 pages without rudeness and low level intellectual input taking over.

 

[Bill Beers]

I know of no other forum in which this topic can carry 13 pages without rudeness and low level intellectual input taking over.

However, it is virturally impossible to keep weimaraners and laser cats out of a good thread.

A question for those in the know, does any state have CCW reciprocity with CA?

-Bill

 

[kjp1969]

I happen to know two people who used a gun to kill someone in what they thought was self defense. Both went to jail, both are felons, neither can vote or own firearms. One guy couldn't get a job until he started answering the "are you a felon" question differently. I don't know for sure, but I imagine that at least one of them was sued for damages.

Don't think for a second that a gun will keep you out of trouble. If you're very lucky and skilled, you're still going to have a horrible, life changing experience. One that will likely haunt you forever.

A gun is not at all like a fire extinguisher.

 

[Martinjmpr]

However, it is virturally impossible to keep weimaraners and laser cats out of a good thread.

A question for those in the know, does any state have CCW reciprocity with CA?

-Bill

California has CCW for non-LEOs? Since when?

 

[Bill Beers]

California has CCW for non-LEOs? Since when?

I'm not claiming they do. I'm asking if CA recognizes any other states CCW permits.

Here in Oregon, we recognize permits from: AK, AZ, ID, IN, KY, MI, MS, OK, SD, TN, UT, and VT.

-Bill

 

[Colorado David]

California is a May Issue state, which means that the issuance of a license is at the discretion of the licensing authority. In California's case, that would be the county sheriff. A law making California a Shall Issue state with the licensing authority going to the state attorney general has been proposed. Shall Issue means that if you meet the states guidelines for licensure and pass the background check, the state is obligated to issue the license. It takes the political machine out of the process. Here is a guide to reciprocity; http://www.nraila.org/recmap/Recguide.pdf Currently, there are only two states that do not have some type of concealed carry license, Illinois and Wisconsin.

 

[valkyrie]

As for the people who speak of running in to meth labs in the middle of nowhere, who in their right mind would quickly pull out a gun when approaching a house with openly armed people greeting you? Even if you have a gun, why not just say you're lost, and ask for directions?
I suppose some might pull their weapon, but that's what Darwin awards are for, I think.

You had me nodding in agreement right up until then.

Quickly pulling a gun? Approaching a house with openly armed people? Who did that?

Who in their right mind indeed?

I can only speak for my last 2 situations. In the first situation we were stopped at a trail crossing checking maps (we were revising our itinerary, we were on public land and knew it and it wasn't hunting season). We were approached by a guy on an ATV whom I can reliably assume was patrolling their perimeter, carrying both a pistol holstered and a high-powered scoped rifle. As we talked he approached me with his hand on his pistol while I was sitting in my truck. I discreetly brought my gun from under the seat, unclipped the holster flap, flipped the safety off and rested it in my lap with my hand on it (exercising trigger discipline). When he approached the window and was peering around as he talked, his eyes rested on my pistol (still holstered but able to be fired) as we continued to speak civilly. There was mutual respect, and we both knew neither one of us wanted trouble from the other. We parted ways and that was it.

The other recent situation was when, while remote (or so I thought) camping in our tent along a Forest Service trail I was awoken in the middle of the night by my dog's low growling. I peered out to see two figures in the moonlight moving around the fringes of our campsite. With my wife sleeping, I readied my pistol and continued observing them as they scouted around our area. After a while, they disappeared. Needless to say, I didn't sleep the remainder of the night, but personally, I was comforted in knowing that had the situation deteriorated, I had the means to defend myself and my wife.

Would either of these situations resolved themselves just as peacefully had I not been armed? Perhaps, but I am not willing to take the risk of the one time perhaps it doesn't.

Sorry for the long story-telling, I promised myself early on I wouldn't. However, I felt it was necessary, at least for me, to make sure the air was cleared and to stop the mis-characterization that I might be a meth-lab touring, quick-draw vigilante or something.
:sombrero:

 

[buddha]

However, it is virturally impossible to keep weimaraners and laser cats out of a good thread.

A question for those in the know, does any state have CCW reciprocity with CA?

-Bill

It is also virtually impossible to keep a good thread from getting hijacked away from the OP's intent.

"Who carries guns?"

Me. Sometimes. Depending on where I am going, who I'm with, etc. I also carry dogs (all joking aside), which gives me (and my family - this is important) more security 99.9% of the time than guns. I hope never to encounter that .01% situation where I will need a gun and don't have one handy. So far, so good.

Why do I bring family into the equation? I'm not always around, but the dogs are. I am extremely careful about securing my guns so that my toddler can't access it. Depending on the situation, this could make the gun inaccessible to me as well if needed in an instant (might as well carry a brick).

Now, I've been around guns my whole life. I've taken the CCW course recently, but haven't registered yet. I will, but I'm in no hurry. The course was very valuable, and I recommend it to all. Once I have my permit, I will likely carry more than I do now, but don't see myself carrying all the time. Carrying on my person is more secure than carrying in my truck with kids around.

To touch on the topic of guns escalating into violence... As a teenager (18, 19), I had guns pointed at me twice by landowners worried about what these kids are up to out in the boonies (nothing illegal - we just startled them on little used roads at night). Both times, I calmed them down by explaining the situation, and never once felt threatened even though I had a gun pointed in my direction. I was able to quickly assess the situation and realized that no one wanted to shoot anyone. Both times, I had a shotgun in the truck, but never once considered using it in any way.

My $0.02.

Good thread.

 

[kcowyo]

Lots of input, lots of good info. We appreciate the civility you guys are trying to maintain. Keep it up and the thread stays up.


This thread is being moved to the Sportman's section along with the other gun carrying threads for continuity-


:campfire:
.

 

[valkyrie]

I happen to know two people who used a gun to kill someone in what they thought was self defense. Both went to jail, both are felons, neither can vote or own firearms. One guy couldn't get a job until he started answering the "are you a felon" question differently. I don't know for sure, but I imagine that at least one of them was sued for damages.

Don't think for a second that a gun will keep you out of trouble.

I suspect your opinion *might* be less one sided if you had the fortune of also knowing someone who legally killed someone in self defense.

If you're very lucky and skilled, you're still going to have a horrible, life changing experience. One that will likely haunt you forever.

Maybe for you, maybe for some, maybe not for others.

A gun is not at all like a fire extinguisher.

This is undeniably true.