Pre birth of a camper - No laughing!

[canals1164]

I dont know if any one else is having problems with DVLA, we have converted a fire engine and despite Northampton office agreeing to register as a Private HGV Camper body type the registration document came back as a box van body type. I wrote to them and they replyed with a standard letter about origional body type. Have been to Northampton again and they are speaking to Swansea, it seems to be quite dificult to get Camper on the V5.
The problem is the apearance of the truck, I have awnings, windows etc and have even put big decals saying Overland Camper!!
Has anyone any ideas.

 

[Dimen]

I think the box is too big. Offroad capabilities will be greatly reduced. the torsional forces will greatly affect the upgrade when offroading.

 

[docka]

I dont know if any one else is having problems with DVLA, we have converted a fire engine and despite Northampton office agreeing to register as a Private HGV Camper body type the registration document came back as a box van body type. I wrote to them and they replyed with a standard letter about origional body type. Have been to Northampton again and they are speaking to Swansea, it seems to be quite dificult to get Camper on the V5.
The problem is the apearance of the truck, I have awnings, windows etc and have even put big decals saying Overland Camper!!
Has anyone any ideas.

Go to http://sbmcc.co.uk/forum/index.php?act=idx and join up (£15 annually), the forum is very friendly and full of great advice. There's a section on this very subject which you may find useful, dont think you can read that part of the forum without becoming a member though, but it's worth it IMO. Good luck!

PS, i hope it's ok to recommend another forum on this site!

 

[ianc]

I think the box is too big. Offroad capabilities will be greatly reduced. the torsional forces will greatly affect the upgrade when offroading.

Dimen - My wife says your just jealous that mine is bigger than yours.

In all seriousness, I'm not trying to build an offroad vehicle but rather a "bad road" vehicle.

 

[Dimen]

Jealousy has nothing to whit that. These are facts from my expiriences. Also, the box should be mounted to chassis thru three or four pivot points: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-pivot-frame.htm

Why build a 4x4 camper if not for offroading and anywhere to go capabilities. There are many other options for usual way of traveling.

As for me. How big is not a factor. Where I can go was my moto.

You can do more things right now, then after vehicle is builded!

 

[Nigel Evans]

The 814DA panel van is a similar size to Ian's build but has no pivot points. Despite this they are surprisingly competent off road as I recently found out when tackling Slab Common tank track in mine. I suppose there must be someone out there who wants to take their expensive camper rock crawling, if they do I'd agree they need lots of chassis articulation and maybe portal axles.

 

[Iain_U1250]

Chassis articulation is normally something you can avoid only by sticking to sealed or graded roads, once you get to tracks that have not been maintained, and there are washouts, river crossings, or erosion "humps" going diagonally across the road, the chassis will want to flex. A camper box will be very rigid due to it's shape and size - so if the chassis wants to flex, and the box won't let it - something will fail if each time you pass the fatigue limit of the steel - it will just be a matter of time, in some trucks it has been the chassis, for other is has been the box mounts.

I think Ian is looking for something that is capable of travelling on corrugated dirt roads without falling apart, but is not meant to go out into the desert, or off the normal village to village roads where the local drive 2wd and the "chicken buses" can go. I drove around a lot of places in Africa in a two wheel drive Nissan E20 LWB panel van - never needed a 4x4, just put some bigger mud terrain tyres on and had a split handbrake - could brake either rear wheel independently. It served us well - did 100,000km with it. However, I would not even dream of taking it where I plan on taking my Mog, just not the right vehicle.

 

[andylod]

Hi Guys

Love the new pics of the truck Ianc, looks well on the way now.
As for DVLA reclassification, There is no need to lower the weight (merc vario 7.5 ton) to 3.5 ton. Once the vehicle has been converted to a camper it becomes obvious to MOT stations that it will not carry goods, they will just carry out a class 4 mot. I am quite lucky to have a local MOT station that specialise in motorhomes.
The log book,body type reclassification, was easy. Just a letter to DVLA with lots of inside and outside pics. From memory there is a few certain things that have to be in-place, fixed bed, vehicle mounted table with seating, stove, water tank, windows etc.... I also sent a weight cert from our local weigh-bridge although i'm not sure thats really needed.
My log book came back with Motor Caravan as the body type
Having said that it was 6 months ago and knowing DVLA they may well have moved the goalposts now

 

[ianc]

Guys,
Thanks for the comments. As I mentioned earlier, I'm building this for "bad roads" rather than full off-road. However, there is allowance for significant chassis flex using the same spring system which the likes of Woelcke (http://www.woelcke.de/category/expedition/car-15/car.php) and Ormocar use. So it should deal with unmaintained tracks as Iain described but I would not go full off-roading.
The 3 or 4 point mount system is ultimately a better engineering solution but it comes with drawbacks for me:
- Significant increase in overall height (I estimated 20-30cm)
- Doesn't allow for box/cab integration (I wanted this to keep overall height of the overcab down)
- Puts "point" stresses on the chassis which are designed to carry their load distributed over the length (I believe this was the cause of Douglas's chassis fracture.)

If there was no "give" between the chassis and the integrated box/cab (This is how most standard campers are made) then it would act like Nigel's panel van up until point where the box "burst". I've experienced this. The side walls of our US build standard camper came away from the floor after 35,000kms of bad roads in Central America. Which made it somewhat harder to sell when we returned to the US

Is 4x4 necessary? No it's not - You can get out of almost anything with 2WD (Evidence: buggies in the Dakar). But with 4x4 you get all of these as part of the package (or at least you do with the Vario):
- Greater ground clearance
- Diff locks all around
- Low ratio box
- Axles, Hubs etc are heavier duty

I think the big limitation of my design is the height at 3.55m. But that's the compromise for having the amount of room we want.

 

[nagual]

some ideas

Hi there, just found your thread!!

I hope the above picture is uploaded properly showing a 2001 814 4x4 from france (I think)
but as you can see the chassis is either extended or came out of the factory (my suspicion) if this is
not true than the truck has been extended not only at the overhang (fairly easy) but also between the
axles.
there is a company in england called britcom that will do that (extend it between the axles) probably others
this is a new concept to me, but one that could change a lot as 4x4 are always too small!!!

Basically having converted some extreme 4x4s like a unimog, an 1820 mercedes 4x4, the length issue
was always a thing, I have currently almost the same base vehicle from as in this thread, and going to
go for an extension between the axles if possible, there are some issues about this obviously one of which is
the type permission but I may be able to go round that with specialist vehicle taxation class, which means it does not
get tested.
Just an idea as it seems Ian has gone to a lot of pain to get some extra room, and this is another way to go about it,
probably keep the back seats and the crew cab and still get the body he wants on.

I hope the picture I posted will show, as this is my first attempt at dropping one in.

 

[ianc]

Naqual,
Welcome to ExPo.

Extending the Vario chassis is relatively straightforward and the process is well documented by Mercedes in their Bodybuilder manual. See here: https://bb-portal.mercedes-benz.com/portal/ar_van.html?&no_cache=1&L=en

Most good engineering shops should be able to do it. There was a very good website (http://4x4fulltiming.com unfortunately its no longer available) which documented a build where the guy extended the wheelbase from 3.7 to 4.5m. The max wheelbase from the factory is 4.25m.

My original intention was also to lengthen, but I found I was able to get everything I wanted into the space available when I went over the cab. I still would definitely have not kept the crew cab though, it's too much dead space when you're stopped.

I've been promised that I'll get the body back from the fabricators by the end of this week! Really looking forward to getting going on the fit out.

I

 

[nagual]

Hi Ian,

Thats great news, still looking for good company in the uk to do it (extend),
I found that you grow to accept whatever size the living space is,
we have lived in the back of the landrover 110 box, in a unimog 12 ft box, in a 16 ft box on the 1820 4x4, and they were all doable!!
Its just a different type of experience.


Personally I have been looking at 6x6 or 6x4 trucks for a while as we needed to grow, and wanted to end up with a 16ft box plus some loading space
for a tent and crane at back, but kind of had enough of big trucks were everything is heavy!!! so extending a 4x4 to maximum plus some is becoming more
interesting, it is a new idea to me, as I always thought the wheels being close to each other have some relation to the transfer ratios when in 4x4 mode.

Have read some stuff on this thread about the pivoting for the box, we have had a pivot joint for the unimog, but none on the 1820, which has just a box on the chassis frame, and the truth is that it seem to work perfectly well, and we have taken it on some things that should not be called roads, the box itself is grp, which I think is what your is, and seems to hold itself well enough with all the torsion, if I was you, I would have kept the massive winch and the hydraulic legs and have used them on the body, the rams could be turned into stabilisers like crane legs which we have on our crane and are actually used most for levelling the truck up !!, and the winch is quite a tool, which means you get stuck nowhere.
but good luck anyway, and thanks for all the info, as I have SIMILAR TRUCK it helps that someone did all the leg work to find the bits out an put it out there, so thanks for that.

 

[Funrover]

I am no help, but I wanted to say I love this project!

 

[ianc]

Welcome to possibly the slowest project on earth....

I've still to get the van back from the fabricator. I was promised Friday (yesterday). It's now next Friday and they still have not received some of the edge trims.

I have a garage full of goodies to start fitting (If my beloved asks then they're components critical to the safety and security of the vehicle).

I've also handed my notice in to my current employer and was hoping to use the downtime between jobs to get some work done.

On the upside I think it's looking cool!. I'm particularly happy with the way the cab integration looks. It's a tad taller looking than I'd anticipated. It's 3.53m at the moment so I expect to be just under 3.5m (the target) when the gear is in.

 

[docka]

It looks great! And i can guarantee you that it's not the slowest van build on earth...
4 years and counting on mine...