QUEST: Find an Eco-Overlander Vehicle

[DesertRose]

Okay, I have the Seven-Year Itch. Not to replace Jonathan, but possibly my Tacoma.

Why?
- I thought it would be interesting to try to find a real 'ecological' and 'economical' vehicle that is comfortable on the highway, easy enough to drive in the city, and could be used for overlanding (we already own a superb FJ40 and a project Land Rover 88).

- I do this every once in a while (swap vehicles) - I love vehicles, especially 4x4s, and though I adore my Tacoma, it has its faults: poor gas economy for its size, seats only 2, and the cargo area is inconvenient (I loved the convenience of my 4-door FJ55, for example).

So in the spirit of some recent discussions in the Conservation section about environmentally conscious overlanding, I wanted to see if it was possible to find a truck that fit my criteria.

Below is a list of criteria, and my true secret goal revealed. :roost:


ECO-OVERLANDER PROJECT
“Economical & Ecological Overlanding Vehicle”

Primary Goal:

- Replace 2000 4WD Tacoma TRD (V6, Xcab,188K miles, OME, rear-locker, ARE topper, ARB)
- Est. sale price $11,000​

Secret Goal:

- Have enough $ left over to buy a 250cc dual-sport moto :luxhello:​

Criteria for new vehicle:

- Must be high-fuel-economy (i.e. - over 30 mpg average if possible; I don't consider 20 mpg to be remotely economical under my definition)
- Diesel or able to convert to diesel a major plus
- Seating for four
- Prefer 4WD or AWD; low-range very desirable but necessary? not sure
- Comfortable on highway
- Airbags
- NHTSA rating 4-5 a big plus​

Thinking smaller-looking might be more economical, I started looking at things like the Isuzu Vehi-Cross and the Tourag, but was shocked to find out (duh) they are really very heavy and aimed at performance rather than economy. I seriously considered them - SO much fun! - but could not justify cruddy fuel economy. No point in losing the value of my Taco to that.

Then I started looking at cross-overs like RAV4s and CR-Vs, but again - check out the attached PDF chart (I'm a nerd) - they are not that economical. (I include an index factor for economy to compare mileage economy between diesel and gas.)

Chart of comparisons for Eco-Overland "Lites"


Then I looked at vehicles that were diesel - the Liberty - or the Suzukis that can be pretty easily converted to VW diesels. Now we see real economy here.

But the Liberty blows my budget, and frankly, I'm not sure I like the styling all that much. Ironically, Jeep is pleased because the Liberty is appealing to women because they say women want a smaller-sized but still-macho looking SUV, and my reaction is that it's too "cute" and I prefer a Land Cruiser overall . . . maybe it's because I just spent a few weeks driving Jonathan's gorgeous FJ40 nearly every day, and really, really enjoyed it . . . especially the expedition feel, and yes, the coolness and attention I got (I loved all the thumbs-ups and the 'dude' signs I got!).

The Zukes are very neat - tons and tons of cool accessories, with little ARBs (dare I say 'darling?') and racks and lockers, too. But safety and noise on the highway are a huge minus - they're pretty tinny. The Vitaras are better . . . but priced a little high for doing the swap to diesel, which would cost about $4K to do it right. Also, VW diesels have pretty low HP and torque (except the TDI, which are much harder to swap).


So what I'm finding is that the more modern these "small SUVs" have gotten, the heavier, the more powerful, and the more gas-guzzling they have gotten (though more safe). They're not economical at all.

Where to go next?

Any input anyone?

What am I missing?

Frankly I'm leaning back to what got me started on this to begin with: Find a nice FJ60 with a blown engine and replace it with a Toyota diesel . . . or import an Aussie diesel Land Cruiser for $10,000 or so . . . and then I should meet most of my criteria . . . that's the next phase of research now!

 

[jeffryscott]

Having had the Zuk's that you mentioned, personally, I would pursue the Toyota import or FJ60 swap if you can do it within your budget.

MPG's probably wouldn't be too different, and size would be a big plus (the Zuk's fill up fast) and longevity. As much as I like the Zuks (I've owned a Samurai for 10 years, a 4-door Sidekick and the Vitara you all knew) I was always concerned about longevity - especially if you go over lots of rough stuff. I never had issues with any of the vehicles as far as reliability, but the Samurai did start to fall apart at about 150K (failed emissions, transmission). I would expect a similar lifespan with the other two. That said, those concerns wouldn't be an issue with a diesel swap. And having driven a Sidekick, the noise really isn't bad (I used to drive to Phoenix with 4 people in it fairly often and it was easy to converse). Although it may seem a little tinny, I always felt safe and comfortable in it. I also got about 28 pmpg in the stock Sidekick on the highway.

An option you didn't mention for a diesel swap is a Discovery I. They can be had dirt cheap - especially if you find one that has overheated (I've seen them locally kitted out with suspension mods, etc ... that have blown engines for $1000 or $1,500) You can then buy a 2.8L Powerstroke which is based on the 300TDi (If I remember correctly) and the conversion, if somebody else does it, is around 10K. I think engine, kits, etc ... can be had for under 5K (I always dreamed of doing this conversion when I had my Disco) From what I understand MPGs are in the 30s on the highway and you have a safe, comfortable, economical ride.

It will be fun to see what you end up with ...

 

[pwc]

the 2.8 is not that cheap, at least not the kit. the kit will be around $8K depending on exchange rates. Shop time will run you another $5K if you don't do it yourself. Otherwise, I'm going this route with a 110. the downside is it doesn't match your MPG target. Real world, people in Discoveries get around 22MPG/27MPG.

I think for the price the Cruiser might be the way to go.

 

[DesertRose]

Having had the Zuk's that you mentioned, personally, I would pursue the Toyota import or FJ60 swap if you can do it within your budget.

I had a sneaking suspicion, as much as I like the Zukes, after having mostly Toyotas (one 22R 2WD truck, one 22R 4WD truck, one 5VZFE 4WD truck) and one FJ55) I would not be happy with overall quality and durability.

An option you didn't mention for a diesel swap is a Discovery I. They can be had dirt cheap - especially if you find one that has overheated (I've seen them locally kitted out with suspension mods, etc ... that have blown engines for $1000 or $1,500)

Oh now this is interesting. I love the idea of that - the lux of the Disco (and love the looks). The suspension.

You can then buy a 2.8L Powerstroke which is based on the 300TDi (If I remember correctly) and the conversion, if somebody else does it, is around 10K. I think engine, kits, etc ... can be had for under 5K (I always dreamed of doing this conversion when I had my Disco) From what I understand MPGs are in the 30s on the highway and you have a safe, comfortable, economical ride.

Who makes the Powerstroke? Ford? Any reliability issues that anyone knows of? I can do some research. Fuel economy is acceptable, especially if I keep the tires smaller and more moderate.

Any other diesel conversions for Discos?

Great ideas here - keep them coming.

 

[jeffryscott]

The powerstroke is by International, but it is essentially Rover's 300tdi (this is all from memory, been probably three years or more since I really looked).

A donor wouldn't be too hard to find either ...

PWC would certainly know more since they are in the middle of a swap, but Discoweb should have some stuff if you dare go there ....

Why, oh why, can't we get this stuff here without all the hassle. Aaaargh.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Really your only option for something that is mildly heavy duty is a FJ60 land cruiser model.. They are still carbureted so incredcibly easy to deal with electronically (no computer, etc). But a diesel engine of some sort (isuzu 4BT1T, Cummins 4BT) and convert. Purchase a $1500 5 speed transmission of some sort (H55F toyota trans, or a NV4500 - the H555F is cheaper due to less adapters) and then you have all of the criteria. Downfall is they are much older. But much more rugged. You can get rust free good condition 60s with higher mileage and/or running problems for $3G or less..

It does take some mechanical expertise but is really not that tough.. IMO, a diesel swap is easier than a Chevy 350 swap, which people have been doing in cruisers since the 70s...

That is what I would do...

 

[BajaTaco]

Wow - a dual sport bike. How cool is that? I have been kicking around the idea myself. The concept of using one for light solo trips and running around town would more than offset the trips done with the larger 4wd as far as fuel burning and emissions go (especially considering I have no daily commute). The downside is the bodily injury factor. It's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when" and... "how bad" :smilies27 So if you factor in the cost of medical bills and time lost at work, plus all of the environmental impact of your medical care... LOL .... maybe it's a wash.

As far as picking the right vehicle - that is a tough one! I am going to hold out for the upcoming models that will be released in answer to the new diesel reg's and increasing fuel costs. Hopefully Toyota will step up to the plate.

 

[mountainpete]

What about a different direction?

How about a Subaru Forester or Outback wagon? Maybe a Volvo V70 XC Wagon or Audi AllRoad?

Better fuel mileage and excellent cargo capacity and they fit a lot of your criteria and are still quite capable on fireroads, etc.

Pete

 

[DesertRose]

Really your only option for something that is mildly heavy duty is a FJ60 land cruiser model.. They are still carbureted so incredcibly easy to deal with electronically (no computer, etc). But a diesel engine of some sort (isuzu 4BT1T, Cummins 4BT) and convert. Purchase a $1500 5 speed transmission of some sort (H55F toyota trans, or a NV4500 - the H555F is cheaper due to less adapters) and then you have all of the criteria. Downfall is they are much older. But much more rugged. You can get rust free good condition 60s with higher mileage and/or running problems for $3G or less..

It does take some mechanical expertise but is really not that tough.. IMO, a diesel swap is easier than a Chevy 350 swap, which people have been doing in cruisers since the 70s...

That is what I would do...

What started all this was access (right now) to a decent (but not great) condition FJ60 we might be able to get for $2000. Trouble is the interior/exterior is not that great (fair amount of work), and neither is the rest - the transmission would need a little work (four speed manual, better than auto), no AC compressor, leaking radiator, etc. Spector has a low mile Toyota turbo-diesel w/tran for $7000 but we could probably find one w/out the transmission for a lot less. Also probably don't need the turbo, not sure.

BTW, I love your Cruiser - here was mine:

I used it lots for beach diving in Sonora . . . and a great trip to Baja with our kayaks.

There is something great about "Cruiser time" - slow and steady!

 

[DesertRose]

What about a different direction?

How about a Subaru Forester or Outback wagon? Maybe a Volvo V70 XC Wagon or Audi AllRoad?

Better fuel mileage and excellent cargo capacity and they fit a lot of your criteria and are still quite capable on fireroads, etc.

Pete

I looked at those, but mileage is still under 25 for gas.

Also - price. Volvo and Audi would blow my budget and then some (can't finance more) and I wouldn't get my moto!

I know, I ask too much . . .

 

[DesertRose]

Wow - a dual sport bike. How cool is that? I have been kicking around the idea myself. The concept of using one for light solo trips and running around town would more than offset the trips done with the larger 4wd as far as fuel burning and emissions go (especially considering I have no daily commute). The downside is the bodily injury factor. It's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when" and... "how bad" :smilies27 So if you factor in the cost of medical bills and time lost at work, plus all of the environmental impact of your medical care... LOL .... maybe it's a wash.

As far as picking the right vehicle - that is a tough one! I am going to hold out for the upcoming models that will be released in answer to the new diesel reg's and increasing fuel costs. Hopefully Toyota will step up to the plate.

Ha! I wouldn't use the moto for town - too dangerous (especially out where we live).

I do wish I could afford a new vehicle, but it's not in the cards for me. Hence the search for an older one . . .

 

[Martinjmpr]

How rugged does this vehicle have to be? My last vehicle was a Subaru Outback wagon and it surprised me with its abilities off-road. Certainly no rock crawler but at least as capable as most Cute-Utes/Crossovers. A Forester might even be better since it's got shorter overhangs front and rear. There are performance parts available from Australia (including a low-range if you have the manual tranny.) As for MPG I routinely got 22-25 in the city and 28-30 on the highway and that was with an automatic.

Diesel conversions might be tough but other than that, as a daily driver with mild off-road abilities you could certainly do worse than an Outback/Forester/Baja.

 

[mountainpete]

I looked at those, but mileage is still under 25 for gas.

Also - price. Volvo and Audi would blow my budget and then some (can't finance more) and I wouldn't get my moto!

I know, I ask too much . . .

You are asking for a lot :shakin:

Another option: Toyota Matrix 4WD. I had one as a service loaner once - very nice and actually lots of room. But not very good for much other then easy fire roads due to the low clearance.

By the way, I have an 05 CR-V. You won't be happy with the fuel economy. It's my one big disappointment besides the fact that it's a bit underpowered with 4 people in it.

Pete

 

[Scott Brady]

I like the Suzuki route. Doing some work on your Tacoma might be a good option too. Narrow, street/mileage biased tires and some engine efficiency work could get you into the 22-23 range. Then save for a Diesel conversion for the Tacoma. It doesnt quite get you to 30 mpg, but it would save you a lot of $$$

 

[bigreen505]

I still like the idea of putting a VW diesel in your Rover.

I'm also not convinced that you are going to reach your 30 mpg in a 5,000-6,000 lb. diesel cruiser. Perhaps occasionally, but not always. If you are looking at bang for buck, I think the Disco I option merits some consideration if you can find one inexpensively. Initial cost and restoration (i.e. everything besides the diesel swap) are going to be your biggest variables and probably the piece most likely to throw the project over budget.

Subaru Outback is about 22-26, a couple higher if you run synthetics all the way through (engine, transmission, diffs). Forrester is a little lower. I think the AWD system is a major culprit and the engines scream for a sixth gear as there is no real cruising gear.

What mileage is Joaquin getting in Mayahaul with the diesel?