question to all LR owners

TeriAnn

Explorer
SaMingTRD said:
I'm looking for an expedition rig to go on 1 week to 1 month outings. I see so many members on here with toyotas and wonder why you guys build up LR's instead?

I haven't a clue as to why people build cadet branches of Land Rovers up for expedition style travel. That puzzles me too when I bother to think about it.

But if you look at the main Land Rover branch, from Series one through Defender you will see a rugged vehicle that can be literally rebuilt on the trail with little more than a screw driver and adjustable spanner. These vehicles are about as close as you can get to the ultimate 4X4 tinker toy set. The rectangular design allows for dense interior packing. Bolt & rivet on panels can be swapped out, easily modified and replaced with other things. These vehicles can be easily converted into specialists. Optimized for most any role.

Put a 1948 Land Rover next to a 2008 Defender and there is no mistaking the design continuity. 60 years of refining a good design. The Series II was introduced in 1958 with the same basic body and frame style as has the newest Defender. There is a surprisingly large number of parts that will interchange across 50 years of production. During those years most of the changes have been to meet increased safety requirements and upgrade off road ability. There were many special variations built over the last 60 years creating a rich combination of bolt on parts that can be used to build a specialist vehicle.

GRmoab.jpg

This is my 1960 Land Rover. It came from the factory with a front axle housing stamped as made in 1958. This Series II Land Rover started out as a pickup. Over the years I have converted it to a pop up camper using mostly Land Rover parts from various years and models, including Defender parts. This vehicle is 48 years old and is going stronger than when she was new. You don't see that much in other brands. But it is not uncommon in Land Rovers.​


Parts of these vehicles are seriously overbuilt and parts are more fragile than they should be. But the weak parts are well known as are multiple ways to strengthen them.

To the British, 100 years is a short time and 100 miles is a long way. Most 50's & 60's British vehicles were mostly designed to require service about twice a year. Therefore standard service intervals are 3000 miles. Land Rovers need to be serviced a lot more frequently that most other vehicles to stay in top functional condition. A lot of people don't service them frequently enough and end up with quirky unreliable vehicles. The old adage "take care of your gear and your gear will take care of you" is very true for Series and Defender Land Rovers. Reliability is a matter of upgrading the factory weak points and frequent preventative maintenance per the factory maintenance schedule. A lot more work than keeping a Toyota going for sure.

It has been said that Land Rovers were the first motorized vehicle that most peoples of the third world first saw. It has also be said that Series Land Rovers have more charisma in a single lug nut that most other brands could ever aspire to.

They question could be posed why not use one as the basis of a long range expedition vehicle?

SaMingTRD said:
I'm a tall guy, 6 foot 3

That could be a good reason. I think Series Land Rovers are optimized for a driver that is 5'8" tall. As you get taller they be come progressively more cramped. I would suggest around 6' or 6'1" as about the maximum hight for anyone hoping for any kind of comfort in a Series rig. Defenders can handle taller people. You could sleep inside a D90 with a stretcher style bed that fits inside over the passenger seat. There should be just enough space for you to lay down in the back of a 2 door D110. Other than that there are always roof top tents or some creative body modifications.

Should I mention that you should be at least a little masochistic in order to be happy with a Series Land Rover or a Defender and to have a lot more money than sense to find joy in owning any of the others.

And whatever the version of Land Rover, if it is used for off road travel, the owners tend to be nice people. Masochistic, self reliant, at least a sigma off normal (you need to be at least 2 sigma off normal to be a Series owner) to the point where some might say eccentric or just plain nutters. But whatever else you might be tempted to call Land Rover owners who take their Land Rovers off road as a group, "good people" also works.
 
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R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
I think it comes down to this:

They are pretty much as bad as all the stories you've heard.

If you still have to have one, damn the consequences, then you're the right type of person to own one.
 

revor

Explorer
We know our Rovers so well we'll fix anything one the trail!!

It is an Emotional thing isn't it.. Mine have been very reliable, considering what I have put the Black 97 Disco through it should be a pile of metal in the driveway!!

The shaft was from an "extreme" built Disco on 37's that had taken some very serious steering hits!!
 

Funrover

Expedition Leader
So pics of broken on trail:
Caused by too much flex
IMG_0192.jpg


Altermator Died on trail
IMG_6236.jpg


Not pictured is the PS hose blown out and the broken spider gear!


After what I have put her through I can't complain!
 

Spikepretorius

Explorer
Mercedesrover wrote:
Is it just me, or does that diff look very dry???
Yes! He drove it back down the mountain in front wheel drive, back to base and then 200km or so down the highway back to Cape Town. I don't think there was a drop of oils left but there was no way he was going to allow photos of a Landy being towed back home.

He fixed it the next day, using the same housing and some spare parts. According to him it's that pin that holds it all together that's the weak link.

It was quite a rescue effort actually we were busy tackling the toughest mountain trail in South Africa. The trail is actually closed down because it has become too dangerous but we got special permission from the land owner. We had to get this guy up to a point where we could turn him around and back down again. It involved multiple vehicles tugging from different angles. A really interesting experience. He wasn't stressed and he still loves his Landy
In pic number 4 here you can see we had to get him all the way up to the vehicles in the distance. He then volunteered to turn and go back the way we came, alone, so he wouldn't ruin it for us!
 
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Green96D1

Explorer
sinuhexavier said:
Time will tell, but I think the D1 is destined to be a classic similar to the original FJ, yet even more rare. While not as styled as the Defender it has the combination of comfort, amenities and function.
I agree. I think it will become a must have for a offroader. just like the 85 toyota Solid Axle Pickup for the yotas guys.
 

Michael Slade

Untitled
Mercedesrover said:
Ignition module. On that trip alone (8000 miles) I changed the following:

Ignition module
Fuel pump (in the tank, of course)
1 bank of injectors
Two fuel filters
Coil
Throttle position sensor
Rear diff

I sold the truck after that trip.

I'd be sour and looking for a way to make my own trucks too if I'd have had that kind of luck. I don't blame you for being on the path you are right now.
 

timaus13

Observer
Hello everyone

Hello fellow 4x4 owners.
I am not one eyed when it comes to 4x4 makers and vehicles.
Having owned numerous Models.

Over many years isolated on a very very very small Island.
Tasmania.

I have come to the conclusion that any 4x4 is a good 4x4 IF IT Gets Serviced and Maintained Regulaly.

At present I own and drive 2 4x4's.

Expedition Vehicle is my 2 door 1976 Range Rover.
Photography Vehicle is my Toyota 1978 2 Door FJ40.

Both these vehicles get a full weekend of maintainance after every offroad trip I go on. Starting with a wash, then when they are clean and dry I climb under them and inspect from front to rear for any damage, breaks or other malidy.

Too date both are Super Reliable.
I would not Hesitate to take My Range Rover back up to the West Coast Of Tasmania with only hours notice as it lives in my driveway all week as I drive a Company car through the week.

This is my strategy for 4x4 exploration and Reliability.

Cheers
Just My 2 cents worth.:safari-rig:
 

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
SaMingTRD said:
I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying. LR projects this allure of adventure that other names like nissan, jeep and toyota (well maybe the FJ40) don't do it for me. Any average joe can own a toyota and it will run for 200,000 miles of neglect, amazing but again it's a toyota. I'm not looking for resale value either, I'm looking to have this rig for 10+ years and have some great memories because of it.
So you want a Toyota then???? If you want to spend more time making positive memorys than fixing your truck get the Toyota... Any average Joe can own a Rover too, they just spend more time in the Garage than us guy's who got it right the first time ;)

I find it so funny that the assumption is that if you buy a Rover you'll automaticly be whipping through the Jungle or across the African sahara... You could do that in a VW Bettel for god sakes. The point is to have a vehicle that's capable of getting you there and back: that's why you buy a TOYOTA!!!!

These are mechanical apparatuses with more in common with a tractor than a significant other. Get over it. While I'm not a huge fan of the newer Landcruisers I respect them for what they are: extremely robust and capable 4x4's. If you want nostalgia, get a 40 or 55...

Rovers are neat trucks too, I love the D1, and the Series Rovers/Defenders are clearly a ledgend of their own, but that has nothing to do with being BETTER than their toyota counterparts. I have been watching the Camel Trophy vids all weekend and marveling at how far those trucks with the tiny tires got in that mess.

Rovers are neat, but when you bash a Totota in the same sentence that you praise a Rover you show that it's not about valid points or actual experience, more a false feeling of... well, I don't know what it is. Call it Rover blindness.

Never fear though guy's n gals, us Toyota folk don't carry grudges and we'll all be more than happy to pull you out and tow you home :shakin:

Cheers

Dave
 
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Alaska Mike

ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
4Rescue said:
So you want a Toyota then???? If you want to spend more time making positive memorys than fixing your truck get the Toyota... Any average Joe can own a Rover too, they just spend more time in the Garage than us guy's who got it right the first time ;)

I find it so funny that the assumption is that if you buy a Rover you'll automaticly be whipping through the Jungle or across the African sahara... You could do that in a VW Bettel for god sakes. The point is to have a vehicle that's capable of getting you there and back: that's why you buy a TOYOTA!!!!

These are mechanical apparatuses with more in common with a tractor than a significant other. Get over it. While I'm not a huge fan of the newer Landcruisers I respect them for what they are: extremely robust and capable 4x4's. If you want nostalgia, get a 40 or 55...

Rovers are neat trucks too, I love the D1, and the Series Rovers/Defenders are clearly a ledgend of their own, but that has nothing to do with being BETTER than their toyota counterparts.

Rovers are neat, but when you bash a Totota in the same sentence that you praise a Rover you show that it's not about valid points or actual experience, more a false feeling of... well, I don't know what it is. Call it Rover blindness.

Never fear though guy's n gals, us Toyota folk don't carry grudges and we'll all be more than happy to pull you out and tow you home :shakin:
Saying a Toyota "doesn't do it for you" isn't exactly brand bashing, especially after you note the reliability. To be honest, Toyotas have never really "done it for me" either. That's more a function of styling than anything else, but I admit I am swayed by a artfully turned curve. would I spend the same time and money building any Toyota that I am on my Rover? Nope, not a chance. However, I can see why someone would- if it floated their boat.

Funny (as has been mentioned before) that some Toyota guys come to the Rover section and tell everyone to buy a Toyota, but the "favor" is rarely (if ever) returned. Interesting...
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
As the owner of 4 Toyota's I come over to the LR sub-forum to better understand these vehicles. It is why I clicked on this thread, for the probable compare and contrast. I like the styling of some of both brands, each within particular age ranges and/or model types (I never expect to own a 200 series or a narrow headlight Series). I completely fail to understand the whole "XXXX's suck, buy a YYYYY" mentality. Imagine what a boring world it would be if we all drove QQQQ's.
 

4Rescue

Expedition Leader
Alaska Mike said:
Saying a Toyota "doesn't do it for you" isn't exactly brand bashing, especially after you note the reliability. To be honest, Toyotas have never really "done it for me" either. That's more a function of styling than anything else, but I admit I am swayed by a artfully turned curve. would I spend the same time and money building any Toyota that I am on my Rover? Nope, not a chance. However, I can see why someone would- if it floated their boat.

Funny (as has been mentioned before) that some Toyota guys come to the Rover section and tell everyone to buy a Toyota, but the "favor" is rarely (if ever) returned. Interesting...
I come over to this side becasue it's the one page outside of the Toyota section to see really neat Expo-rigs. Most of the others just aren't quite up to snuff IMO.

I wasn't really refering to the "doesn't do it for me" comments, it was more this stupid attitude that there's some mythical connection between Rovers and Expeditions... I know they're iconic, but then so Landcruiser.

As for a "reason" to build a Rover: Do it because you specificly WANT a Land Rover, becasue there are clearly ALOT better options out there.
I always find it funny how the guys in Rover threads will openly admit that these trucks have issues but then justify them by saying "but it's a Land Rover..." or "it's an emotional thing..." and then call our Toyotas "soul-less"... When in reality the reliability record is what it is and soul-less as my totota may be, I dare you point to a better made 4x4 on the planet.

Cheers

Dave
 
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MuddyMudskipper

Camp Ninja
4Rescue said:
I come over to this side becasue it's the one page outside of the Toyota section to see really neat Expo-rigs. Most of the others just aren't quite up to snuff IMO.

I wasn't really refering to the "doesn't do it for me" comments, it was more this stupid attitude that there's some mythical connection between Rovers and Expeditions... I know they're iconic, but then so Landcruiser.

As for a "reason" to build a Rover: Do it because you specificly WANT a Land Rover, becasue there are clearly ALOT better options out there.
I always find it funny how the guys in Rover threads will openly admit that these trucks have issues but then justify them by saying "but it's a Land Rover..." or "it's an emotional thing..." and then call our Toyotas "soul-less"... When in reality the reliability record is what it is and soul-less as my totota may be, I dare you point to a better made 4x4 on the planet.

Cheers

Dave


While there are PLENTY of vehicles used for overlanding it is hard to deny that there is indeed a mythical connection between Rovers and overlanding which for some people is reason enough for them to use a Rover. Whatever the individual's "connection" may be, it is no more valid than your "connection" with Toyota. So if a guy buys a Rover because it conjures images of cruising along the Serengeti but can barely keep up with the maintenence to cruise the mall in Seekonk let him, its not your car or your money.

Before this turns into a chest beating contest, I double dare you to step away from the keyboard, calm down, stay on topic, and let this thread run its course in a more positive manner.
 

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