Rango.....1942 Willys MB

[jeepdreamer]

I spy...

No big surprise but its looking great sir! (We've come to expect greatness from you) heehee!
Not to muddy your thread but I wanted to give you some motivation. I was heading into work this morning (Grafenwoehr Germany) and about wrecked pulling into the parking lot. Sitting there quietly near the Post office was this! I managed a handful of poor cell phone shots and ended up late. I managed to trac the guy down during lunch and talked to him. Its a '49 and his father bought it in '53. Everything original too! So when your done with yours and have made it amazing it can be handed down through the family for generations!

 

[Metcalf]

Not to much stuff tonight.....

I welded in the tube sleeve things in the rear crossmember/bumper.....

Weld, flap disc, weld in hole, flap disc, chamfer hole....

I then test fit the rear bumper on the tub to make sure the holes lined up.

IT FITS! It went together pretty well. Some of the tabs need to be straightened out a bit but it all came together.

I REALLY need to buy a better camera....taking pictures in the shop is annoying me with the low light.

Finally I measured up most of the other body mounts that I need to build. I have four that are 1.5" offset, two that are 1.125" offset, and one small crossmember that needs to be 23.875" wide mounting holes and spread the entire frame ( still need to get a height on that one too! ). The last crossmember in the rear section is the 'machine gun' crossmember. I still don't really know what I want to do for that one....

 

[reece146]

The last crossmember in the rear section is the 'machine gun' crossmember. I still don't really know what I want to do for that one....

IIRC it has a really funky shape...

Maybe just cut it out and add something that will actually strengthen the frame? I forget if there is anything else in the same space that might interfere. With that x-member out of the way is there enough space to do some kind of under floor storage? More fuel? Sorry, been a while since I've looked over a flattie.

I tripped over the YJ frame a bunch of times today while working on other stuff. You'd think I'd remember to weigh it...

 

[jeepdreamer]

Gun mount..

The last crossmember in the rear section is the 'machine gun' crossmember. I still don't really know what I want to do for that one....[/QUOTE]

maybe mount one of these? :Wow1::wings:

 

[Metcalf]

IIRC it has a really funky shape...

Maybe just cut it out and add something that will actually strengthen the frame? I forget if there is anything else in the same space that might interfere. With that x-member out of the way is there enough space to do some kind of under floor storage? More fuel? Sorry, been a while since I've looked over a flattie.

I tripped over the YJ frame a bunch of times today while working on other stuff. You'd think I'd remember to weigh it...

I basically need to add something to take its place. I am thinking I might use a section of 1.5 or 1.75" tube and tuck it in the area where the rear floor makes it first step. Then have a plate for the body to sit on in the middle like stock. If I did it right that tube could have the rear shocks mounted to the ends. The interface to the frame could be pretty easy.

I also need to add a small crossmember to take the place of the 2 body mounting bolts where the K-member attached to the frame ( about at the axle level ). I think I can do that with some small channel or box tubing.

I will probably be mounting a small air tank under the rear floor. Some day I will probably build a nice aluminum fuel tank to fit under the rear floor, but things are REALLY tight with the low suspension and shifted axle position.

 

[Metcalf]

The last crossmember in the rear section is the 'machine gun' crossmember. I still don't really know what I want to do for that one....

maybe mount one of these? :Wow1::wings:[/QUOTE]

That looks like the cannon on the front end of a A10!

 

[jeepdreamer]

That is correct, sir! I'm going through a JFO school right now and get to be up close and observant of the working end of these.
You don't happen to know anyone that has an extra oil tube bracket for a Willys 134 do you?

 

[Metcalf]

I got a new camera so I could take some better pictures in the low garage lighting. Basically I just spent an hour or two playing with the new camera and taking lots of reference pictures and measuring things......

A few people have been asking me about the frame so I thought I would take some pics to show the fit of the Willys MB body on the frame....

Here is the rear kick and how it fits with the body. The MB frame has two steps in the rear body section. The stacked 4" tube worked out really well here I think. For a common tube size if you put the kick in the frame in the right spot at the right angle it works out pretty good. The factory frame is curved in this section and that would be REALLY hard to duplicate in a simple and easy frame.

Here is a shot down the belly section. This was a kind hard angle to get while everything is on the table. As long as you get the frame width right this are is pretty easy to work out. The 4" tube is actually slightly shorter ( I think 3/8" IIRC ) than the stock frame in this area. If I was going to do it again I might think about using 5" tall tubing in the belly area. I'm going for max belly clearance, but its going to be TIGHT to get the drivetrain tucked up THAT much. A 5" tall rail would make that easier. For most people even a 6" rail might not be a bad idea if you want a flat belly pan. With a 5 or 6" rail I think you would probably have to do something a little more exotic with the spring hangers to keep the overall height down.

Here is a view of the front fender to frame interface. I think this turned out really nice so far. For just a long cut to taper the frame I think I got it pretty close! This is with the front fender in the stock location still. When I raise and push the fender a bit this gap will get larger. I may have to add something to cover the gap to keep the big chunks out.

The spring hanger locations could be modified to leave the kicks in the same location fairly easy. If you want to run larger tires I don't think the 3" wheelbase stretch front and back is bad idea, especially if your going to all the trouble to make a new frame

These pictures are also with the body repositioned to that it is very close to the final location ( to about 1/8 front to back ).

I also measured for the rear crossmembers again. The main rear bumper crossmember seems to need a 1 5/8" drop from the top of the rear kicked rail to be in the right spot. I played around with the rear mounting taps to get them more level and redid the measurement. I will probably check it at least once more before I weld the bumper to the frame.

The rear crossmember for the two body mounts bout 1' ahead of the rear bumper ( where the K-member use to spread out to the frame ) needs to have a 1 1/4" raise from the top of the new frame rail. I am going to look around for some channel or box tube that might work well. I will probably do a full side to side crossmember at this location to help support the rear floor.

A better picture of the rear bumper/crossmember. I rounded the ends of it off to clean it up a bit. I still need to weld in some 1.75" strap to box the ends.

Here is the bottom of the sleeve I welded in for the inner mounting bolts on the rear crossmember. My cordless dremel battery ran out so I still have a little touch up to do to the lip corner after welding.

That's it for now....

 

[Metcalf]

That is correct, sir! I'm going through a JFO school right now and get to be up close and observant of the working end of these.
You don't happen to know anyone that has an extra oil tube bracket for a Willys 134 do you?

I have a friend that has one and would probably take some pics and measurements for you if you wanted to make one.

 

[Metcalf]

A little bit of a milestone tonight.....

First I marked the rear bumper/crossmember for the install on the rear of the frame. I like marking in blue and then using a scribe. It give a nice thin line that is fairly easy to see and doesn't rub off too easy. I then usually 'text' out what the lines are for. This way if it takes me a few days to use the line I know what the line is suppose to be for.

Next I gave the tub a body lift. I kinda like it.....NOT! It does get the body out of the way so I can play with the frame....

Getting the rear bumper clamped on the rear of the frame was a little bit of a pain. Its a good thing I have lots of scrap tubing around and a few clamps. First I clamped a short section on the bottom of the 2nd rear crossmember.

Once the piece was clamped in I aligned it to the back of the frame. This was pretty easy with the clamps snugged but not tight. I used a dead blow and some aluminum tubing scrap to 'flush' the rear surfaces. Once I had it close I started tightening down the clamps and double checking these clamps. They need to be pretty tight....but not crushing the tubing or anything.

Clamping the rear bumper was a fun exercise in balance and dexterity. The bumper doesn't weigh THAT much but its hard to run those clamps with one hand!

Next I started aligning the rear bumper with the hammer. Tap, measure, tap, tap, measure, tap, tap, measure, measure, measure. I set the rear bumper 1.75" down from the top of the rear frame rail. I think the measurement is between 1.625 and 1.75, but the tub is 70 years old so its kinda hard to tell sometimes. Once I got everything where I wanted it I started snugging down the clamps.

Then I spent about 20 minutes trying to roll the welder over to the back of the jeep. Even with only one project this garage gets tight!

A few good tack welds along with some big sparks down my sleeve and I was ready to remove the clamps...

Here is the final position of the bumper from the underside looking rearward.

And here is the tub in its final position on the frame and bumper. I was able align the holes with a pry par easy enough and then let the full weight of the body on the frame. 3 out of 4 holes lined up perfect. I could slip a bolt in by hand. Once of the bolts is a little tight on the passenger side inner bolt. This was one of the areas that saw some tub damage from the bending of the old frame. I will play around with that mounting tab a little bit more, but will probably have to open it up about 1/16 or so.

I like that the new rear bumper looks close to stock but will be a fully boxed unit when its done. I will also be rebuilding the mount for the pintle hitch and installing a new pintle hitch with a cast in molded 2" ball. I like those units the best since they are smooth and round on the bottom.

Any thoughts so far. This thread has been pretty quiet lately.

 

[reece146]

Any thoughts so far. This thread has been pretty quiet lately.

Love what you are doing, haven't been posting much because I could prattle on and monopolize your thread (i.e. be a pain).

Is there enough gap between the tub and the top of the bumper? It's hard to tell if there is any at all in the pictures.

 

[Metcalf]

Love what you are doing, haven't been posting much because I could prattle on and monopolize your thread (i.e. be a pain).

Is there enough gap between the tub and the top of the bumper? It's hard to tell if there is any at all in the pictures.

As long as your talking about old jeeps....or new jeeps....or basically anything with 4wd...or go-fast desert 2wd things....I don't really care if you rattle on with questions in this thread. My best hope would be more questions might make me think about other ways to do things or things I might be overlooking.

Currently there is a VERY minimal gap between the rear bumper and body. I will be adding a small plastic or brass shim washer ( less than 1/8" thick ) between all the vertical body mounting locations when it goes together for final assembly to help with rub and movement at the mounting locations. The body is basically hard mounted on these old jeeps.

 

[locrwln]

Sorry for the lack of responses, I have been checking the thread daily and enjoying every bit of it.

Keep it up.:ylsmoke:

Jack

 

[jeepdreamer]

Looking great! Couple of random thoughts to add..
*First I marked the rear bumper/crossmember for the install on the rear of the frame. I like marking in blue and then using a scribe. It give a nice thin line that is fairly easy to see and doesn't rub off too easy. I then usually 'text' out what the lines are for. This way if it takes me a few days to use the line I know what the line is suppose to be for.Quote* Nice tip! I always have a hard time marking stuff. For rough things I have been using a sharpie but its kinda thick. For finer stuff I usually use a straight edge and a razor blade... have to try your idea.
*haven't been posting much because I could prattle on and monopolize your thread (i.e. be a pain).Quote* That was kinda my thought too... I tangent to easy and didn't want to detract from your work. But now that you have opened the flood gates...! Heehee!
I think it would be funny to roll a pair of huge tires next to the jeep/frame as its sitting on the table. Just stand them next to the wheel wells and take a side pic. Got any farm tractor tires laying around?
IIRC, the early jeeps used about a 1.5x1.5" chunk of what looked like old tire(?) to act as a body buffer? I think you will want something to allow a little flex other than a bronze washer. Otherwise you may stress some of the body welds? IMHO Jeeps are different from most modern vehicles and race cars as you kinda want some flex in the frame/body/overall package. The key is to keep it within reason.

 

[Metcalf]

Looking great! Couple of random thoughts to add..
*First I marked the rear bumper/crossmember for the install on the rear of the frame. I like marking in blue and then using a scribe. It give a nice thin line that is fairly easy to see and doesn't rub off too easy. I then usually 'text' out what the lines are for. This way if it takes me a few days to use the line I know what the line is suppose to be for.Quote* Nice tip! I always have a hard time marking stuff. For rough things I have been using a sharpie but its kinda thick. For finer stuff I usually use a straight edge and a razor blade... have to try your idea.
*haven't been posting much because I could prattle on and monopolize your thread (i.e. be a pain).Quote* That was kinda my thought too... I tangent to easy and didn't want to detract from your work. But now that you have opened the flood gates...! Heehee!
I think it would be funny to roll a pair of huge tires next to the jeep/frame as its sitting on the table. Just stand them next to the wheel wells and take a side pic. Got any farm tractor tires laying around?
IIRC, the early jeeps used about a 1.5x1.5" chunk of what looked like old tire(?) to act as a body buffer? I think you will want something to allow a little flex other than a bronze washer. Otherwise you may stress some of the body welds? IMHO Jeeps are different from most modern vehicles and race cars as you kinda want some flex in the frame/body/overall package. The key is to keep it within reason.

A scribe works really well for me on most stuff, its just that much finer than a sharpy, especially for hole locations. Tolerance always stacks up....Going from measuring for a hole to marking the hole to center punching the hole to drilling the hole. Every little bit helps.

I don't have any farm tires, but I have the 38" spare off my Dodge.

The body mounts on my jeep, the 'pad' style ones, had piece of felt inbetween the body and the frame. I do think the body on the jeep was originally designed to be a supporting part of the vehicle. I think that is why there are 20 body mounting locations on an 80" wheelbase vehicle! All the vertical locations that are not really a 'pad' style mount are just hard bolted anyways.

My new frame is going to be a LOT less flexible than the stock frame, hopefully near zero flex when I get the cage tied in.