School me on home-defense (gun related).

[BIGdaddy]

All these post and only one about the most intimedating sound in the world, the pump gun. I subscribe to the policy of two sets of sharp teeth next to the bed. I do have a pump gun in the closet, but as I grab said shot gun, person x is still dealing with rover 1 and rover 2. I have a number of side arms, but the truth of the matter is when adrenaline kicks in, (not being trained militarily or profesionally) these situations take aim out of the picture. I can rack a round into the pump gun letting everyone in the house (invited or not) know my intent. 99% effective, say no more, threat leaves. If threat decides to stay, the 00 buck is going to cut anything in that range in half. No aim, no probelmo. Just point and pull and rack round 2 or more. I have no desire to hurt anyone in this world or the next. But I'd rather be on trail for thier murder insted of having it the other way.

Mayne

In the two encounters I've had with men looking in my windows and trying to get in, I put one in the tube and four in the magazine of my 870 pump as quietly as possible. Here's my thinking..

1. I didn't want him to know I was there
2. I didn't want him to know I had a gun
3. I wanted him to decide on his own my house
wasn't worth it
4. I wanted him to be completely surprised and therefore, without a fighting
mindset when and if I shot him.

Same would go for an intruder inside. He's in my house, and has already made the mistake of being where he shouldn't be:

-I'm not going to assume he'll run at the sound of a shotgun racking

-I'm not going to assume I'll be able to survive a shootout.

-If possible, I want the only shots fired to be mine, preferably into his back, with no risk to me, other than my hearing. I will NOT yell freeze, I will not try to scare him, cuz I honestly think I'd be too scared to talk.

You might call this fighting dirty. I call it fighting to win.

my .20

 

[zimm]

In the two encounters I've had with men looking in my windows and trying to get in, I put one in the tube and four in the magazine of my 870 pump as quietly as possible. Here's my thinking..

1. I didn't want him to know I was there
2. I didn't want him to know I had a gun
3. I wanted him to decide on his own my house
wasn't worth it
4. I wanted him to be completely surprised and therefore, without a fighting
mindset when and if I shot him.

Same would go for an intruder inside. He's in my house, and has already made the mistake of being where he shouldn't be:

-I'm not going to assume he'll run at the sound of a shotgun racking

-I'm not going to assume I'll be able to survive a shootout.

-If possible, I want the only shots fired to be mine, preferably into his back, with no risk to me, other than my hearing. I will NOT yell freeze, I will not try to scare him, cuz I honestly think I'd be too scared to talk.

You might call this fighting dirty. I call it fighting to win.

my .20

i call it knowingly increasing the odds you get to kill someone. if you honestly think youll be too scared to yell freeze or what not, how well do you think youre gonna handle having killed a man for material possessions?

 

[Deleted member 9101]

In the two encounters I've had with men looking in my windows and trying to get in, I put one in the tube and four in the magazine of my 870 pump as quietly as possible. Here's my thinking..

1. I didn't want him to know I was there
2. I didn't want him to know I had a gun
3. I wanted him to decide on his own my house
wasn't worth it
4. I wanted him to be completely surprised and therefore, without a fighting
mindset when and if I shot him.

Same would go for an intruder inside. He's in my house, and has already made the mistake of being where he shouldn't be:

-I'm not going to assume he'll run at the sound of a shotgun racking

-I'm not going to assume I'll be able to survive a shootout.

-If possible, I want the only shots fired to be mine, preferably into his back, with no risk to me, other than my hearing. I will NOT yell freeze, I will not try to scare him, cuz I honestly think I'd be too scared to talk.

You might call this fighting dirty. I call it fighting to win.

my .20

I call it defending your home with your available resources and skill level.

 

[zimm]

I call it defending your home with your available resources and skill level.

youre not defending your home, youre defending your life. homeowners insurance defends your home.

 

[Cackalak Han]

i call it knowingly increasing the odds you get to kill someone. if you honestly think youll be too scared to yell freeze or what not, how well do you think youre gonna handle having killed a man for material possessions?

That brings up a point. How do you, or would you, prepare yourself mentally without actually putting yourself in that situation? Or will there be just too much adrenaline flowing to matter? I'll admit, I'd probably have a tough time dealing with the fact that I have taken a life, no matter how low. Now, I'm not rethinking this whole issue, because when it comes down to the intruder killing or harming my family, there is no doubt that I WILL pull the trigger. At the same time, I'll most likely have a tough time getting over it.

This is all assumptions. Anyone have input on this?

 

[BIGdaddy]

i call it knowingly increasing the odds you get to kill someone. if you honestly think youll be too scared to yell freeze or what not, how well do you think youre gonna handle having killed a man for material possessions?

I don't think I'd be too scared to talk, I know I would be, its happened twice. It also happened to me as a lifeguard and as a firefighter. Its different for everyone.

All I told my wife apparently was, "get the kids", and she took them to the spot we had previously discussed. My particular tunnel vision effects my ability to communicate effectively, but not my motor skills, because I had loaded and shouldered my shotgun with it pointed in a safe direction, without really realising it. I took up station in the spot I had chosen prior to the event that afforded me a view of both possible entrances to our house at the time.

What material possesions have I mentioned that I would be protecting? I think the OP was talking about defending his family not a laptop and his flatscreen.

My motivation is no different.

Seems like you fired off that response without thinking about it. no worries, though. good discussion.

 

[Superu]

I've been waiting for the old "sound of the pump action scaring them off" to come around.

There are two things that racking your gun may do in the situations described.

One is a possibility.

The other is a certainty.

One: It may scare off the intruder who is not looking to get shot. This assumes he is not on crack, meth, or who knows what else.

Two: It will immediately tell the intruder where you are.

Quickly achieving the two least likely outcomes you would want in this situation. Giving up your advantage of surprise and enabling him to act in a hostile manner towards your position.

 

[Superu]

That brings up a point. How do you, or would you, prepare yourself mentally without actually putting yourself in that situation? Or will there be just too much adrenaline flowing to matter? I'll admit, I'd probably have a tough time dealing with the fact that I have taken a life, no matter how low. Now, I'm not rethinking this whole issue, because when it comes down to the intruder killing or harming my family, there is no doubt that I WILL pull the trigger. At the same time, I'll most likely have a tough time getting over it.

This is all assumptions. Anyone have input on this?

I would like to think that I would be somewhat impacted and likely a bit saddened by having taken a person's life. I tend to be very pragmatic and would expect that I wouldn't be crippled by it long term, but none of us really knows until faced with that situation how we will be afterwards.

We do what we have to do when called to action and hope that we make the best decisions possible.

Good luck and try to focus on the joys coming your way and don't let yourself get too bogged down in the what ifs. You sound like a pretty reasonable guy and I would guess from what I've read so far, you'll make sound decisions.

p.s. Home security cameras and that little extra flat screen really do go a long way for short money. I have external cameras even though we live in a relatively safe area, but my wife loves being able to look at the screen and see who's coming up the driveway, at the door, etc.

Also, the few times that the security system has gone off in the middle of the night, I've bolted out of bed with more adrenaline flowing then you can imagine. Not many intruders are likely to hang around when floods come on and sirens start blaring. :ylsmoke:

 

[Deleted member 9101]

youre not defending your home, youre defending your life. homeowners insurance defends your home.

Not really, it just replaces it.... ruger defends my home...lol

 

[tdesanto]

...I use #7 so it will not go through as much stuff before it stops.

This is a highly-debated topic and I'm not sure which to choose. I've read that #7 or 7.5 is a good defensive load at the short ranges one would encounter in a home, but I've also read that it won't penetrate enough to do any real good.

I think we'd all agree that #00 is plenty of stopping power, but I've read that it can penetrate several walls. I've read the same for most handgun calibers, 9mm-.45.

This always seems like a nerve-racking scenario--you need enough to stop someone, but you also don't want to harm a family member in the next room.

This is not a big deal if things go as we've planned and we're in the same room, but this would be a different story if we're separated whithin the house.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

This is a highly-debated topic and I'm not sure which to choose. I've read that #7 or 7.5 is a good defensive load at the short ranges one would encounter in a home, but I've also read that it won't penetrate enough to do any real good.

I think we'd all agree that #00 is plenty of stopping power, but I've read that it can penetrate several walls. I've read the same for most handgun calibers, 9mm-.45.

This always seems like a nerve-racking scenario--you need enough to stop someone, but you also don't want to harm a family member in the next room.

This is not a big deal if things go as we've planned and we're in the same room, but this would be a different story if we're separated whithin the house.

If you fire a 12ga at someone, regardless of the damage.. I would imagine that it would make then seriously rethink the choices they were currently making...lol.

As for me.. I prefer my mini-14.. not a big round.. but fires fast enough and is small enough for me to effectively clear my house.

 

[Cackalak Han]

Thanks for your feedback. I guess I will just hope for the best, should I find myself in that situation. I'll definitely look into the security cameras. I've seen some at Costco for $500, but don't know if it'll be any good. Also, I'm in the process of installing motion sensor flood lights. I am hoping this will almost guarantee no intrusions. But I will still be prepared. Thanks again for the inputs and warm wishes.

I would like to think that I would be somewhat impacted and likely a bit saddened by having taken a person's life. I tend to be very pragmatic and would expect that I wouldn't be crippled by it long term, but none of us really knows until faced with that situation how we will be afterwards.

We do what we have to do when called to action and hope that we make the best decisions possible.

Good luck and try to focus on the joys coming your way and don't let yourself get too bogged down in the what ifs. You sound like a pretty reasonable guy and I would guess from what I've read so far, you'll make sound decisions.

p.s. Home security cameras and that little extra flat screen really do go a long way for short money. I have external cameras even though we live in a relatively safe area, but my wife loves being able to look at the screen and see who's coming up the driveway, at the door, etc.

Also, the few times that the security system has gone off in the middle of the night, I've bolted out of bed with more adrenaline flowing then you can imagine. Not many intruders are likely to hang around when floods come on and sirens start blaring. :ylsmoke:

 

[cnynrat]

I have a number of side arms, but the truth of the matter is when adrenaline kicks in, (not being trained militarily or profesionally) these situations take aim out of the picture. I can rack a round into the pump gun letting everyone in the house (invited or not) know my intent. 99% effective, say no more, threat leaves. If threat decides to stay, the 00 buck is going to cut anything in that range in half. No aim, no probelmo. Just point and pull and rack round 2 or more.

Mayne

It's often believed that with a shotgun you take the requirement to aim out of the picture. I agree a shotgun is more forgiving than a handgun in this respect, and certainly don't take anything away from those that choose a shotgun over a handgun as a HD weapon. However, I think you'll find that at the typical distances for a home/self defense encounter you do need to aim the shotgun. You are probably looking at a 4-6" pattern, so it is possible to miss your intended target.

 

[SunTzuNephew]

If you fire a 12ga at someone, regardless of the damage.. I would imagine that it would make then seriously rethink the choices they were currently making...lol.

As for me.. I prefer my mini-14.. not a big round.. but fires fast enough and is small enough for me to effectively clear my house.

As an Emergency Physician, I've seen a LOT of people who have been shot with a LOT of different weapons. I generally don't see the ones who are dead right there, since the coroner gets them...

I have (personally) seen people survive being shot with everything from a .177 air rifle pellet up to a 30mm cannon. I have also seen a video of a Marine who was shot with an RPG and survived, the surgeon who cut it out of him got a well-deserved Silver Star.

I have seen people survive getting shot with 12 gauge slugs, buckshot, and bird shot (all hits in the torso/abdomen). I've seen people die on the table from those too.

I have seen people shot with .22 rimfires, and survive. And die. President Reagan almost died from a ricochet from a .22LR, and when I say almost it was a very close thing.

I've seen a lot of people shot with .357/.38, .45, .40, and of course 9mm. A lot survive, a lot don't. I've seen people shot with .44mags and walk into the hospital (center of mass shot) and people die from shots in the arm or leg.

I've seen people shot with hunting rifles, at close and long range. Some survived (including a shot through the head with a .30 cal hunting round), some died. I've seen people shot with .50BMG and survive, same with 5.56/.223 (including M193 55gr and SS109 62gr).

The bottom line is that there is nothing that is a stopper all the time. Nothing is a guaranteed man-stopper (including a 20mm and RPG).

I've also seen people shot with arrows (long bow, cross bow), muzzle loaders, ramrods from muzzle loaders, cut with knives, mutilated with chainsaws, blown up with explosives and burned with chemicals and flame. Some live, some die, and nothing is a sure deal.

Having said that, I carry a G21 or G30 in .45ACP....draw what you will from that. Around the house, I also carry a G21 or G30. I have shotguns (12 ga pump, loaded with #4Buck) and rifles (AR-15 platforms, loaded with 55gr FMJ) handy, but the go-to for short distances (like in the house) is the G21.

 

[Dave Bennett]

Calling CRAP!

Nothing but respect for you man, but I have to correct a common misconception.

Springs degrade with multiple compressions/de-compressions.

You can store a loaded magazine with no more ill-effects than an unloaded magazine.

It's basic physics.

In fact, the most dangerous thing that can happen to a loaded magazine over time is the spreading/failing of the feed/magazine lips over long periods of time.

Load them and store them friends, won't hurt a thing. I don't care what the starches in TRADOC hand down...

I called in a lifeline. This is from a VERY well versed Marine who knows more about gunsmithing and all things firearms related than most. It explains why my mags sucked in 2003 which has led to my current distrust:

Those mags you mention were (I'd wager) Checkmate brand mags for the M9.

DESPITE checkmate's warnings, the Government INSISTED that the mags be Phosphate coated INSIDE as well as out.

This led to dirt, dust and sand, sticking to the inside of the mags and impeding the magazine spring. (Exactly as you noted)

This is why so many people had Beretta brand mags sent over (Mecgar) as they did not have this problem with blued mags. (Checkmate makes excellent mags otherwise, they just were forced to make these to Government specs)

Older springs did have issues remaining loaded.

This is what happened to me, and I just went and looked... yep, I have several M9 mags that are fully phosphate coated. Combined with the MOONDUST in Iraq it turned them into junk.