Snorkel Wars
- Thread starter articulate
- Start date
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
TeriAnn
Explorer
Blair G said:
Au contrarie mon amie only the most haute Mallterrain vehicles have cyclonic prefilters mounted on snorkles. Standard snorkels are so yesterday.
A cylonic preffilter provides that extra bit of protection if you happen to be downwind of the parking lot sweeper when you come in to catch the 4AM after Thanksgiving sale. And having the prefilter mounted down where you can see it allows you to watch the little vanes twirl round and round providing entertainment whilst siting in a parking lot isle, blocking traffic, as someone loads their vehicle before leaving a desirable parking spot.
Sometimes you don't have a lot of choice as to where the snorkel exits the top of your vehicle and the mounting instructions for Donaldson cyclonic prefilters state that the prefilter should be mounted at least six inches above the mounting surface.
If you are gonna have the badest mallterrain rig in the parking lot you gotta have a cyclonic prefilter.
Oh and if you are worried about deep water collecting in parking lot low spots, an electric cooling fan with an on-off switch on the instrument panel is so right and gives you the confidence to know that your mallterrain vehicle can handle anything you might encounter on the worst of shopping days.
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DaktariEd
2005, 2006 Tech Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
TeriAnn said:Au contrarie mon amie only the most haute Mallterrain vehicles have cyclonic prefilters mounted on snorkles. Standard snorkels are so yesterday.
A cylonic preffilter provides that extra bit of protection if you happen to be downwind of the parking lot sweeper when you come in to catch the 4AM after Thanksgiving sale. And having the prefilter mounted down where you can see it allows you to watch the little vanes twirl round and round providing entertainment whilst siting in a parking lot isle, blocking traffic, as someone loads their vehicle before leaving a desirable parking spot.
Sometimes you don't have a lot of choice as to where the snorkel exits the top of your vehicle and the mounting instructions for Donaldson cyclonic prefilters state that the prefilter should be mounted at least six inches above the mounting surface.
If you are gonna have the badest mallterrain rig in the parking lot you gotta have a cyclonic prefilter.
Oh and if you are worried about deep water collecting in parking lot low spots, an electric cooling fan with an on-off switch on the instrument panel is so right and gives you the confidence to know that your mallterrain vehicle can handle anything you might encounter on the worst of shopping days.
:xxrotflma :xxrotflma :xxrotflma
Too funny!!
articulate
Expedition Leader
We've come so far, haven't we? :snorkel: And now we go farther.kcowyo said:
Safari has produced a unit for the late model Frontier. :smileeek:
cruiser guy
Explorer
Any one have a place for a reasonably priced snorkle for a Land Cruiser '60 series?
The ARB distributor here in Guatemala wants nearly $600!!!
The ARB distributor here in Guatemala wants nearly $600!!!
There are nearly too many opinions expressed here to address them all, but there are several which I have to assume are based on assumptions rather than on personal experience.
1. Snorkels are for mall cruisers.
While many snorkels are, in fact, installed on mall cruisers because of the look, they were not designed for show. They do just what they appear to do -- they raise the intake level from under the hood to a point at or near the top of the windshield. Doing this provides some benefits which may or may not be of value to you, depending on where and how you drive.
2. Snorkels provide cleaner air.
That would depend on where and how you drive. In caravan in dusty conditions, you can and generally do get less dust concentration at the top of your windshield, but only if you tend to tailgate the guy in front of you. If you hang well back, the dust rises and whether the air then is cleaner at windshield height or not may be debatable.
3. Unless you raise your exhaust to above water level, the snorkel does no good.
This could not be further from the truth. An internal combustion engine will run indefinitely with the exhaust outlet under water. I have experienced a running engine with the exhaust 4 to 6 feet under water, with the motor at idle for 15 minutes or more.
4. A snorkel will provide more air than an air cleaner under the hood.
This has to have been spoken without thought. First, there is probably not an apples-to-apples comparison going here unless the snorkel is attached to the stock airbox without any further modifications, such as a K&N filter. If the only modification is the snorkel itself, it will generally provide less air flow than the stock inlet because of the length of the tubing through which the air must flow. There is a formula for surface drag versus length, but as a quick example which most would probably understand, try breathing through a short piece of garden hose (under 12"). Then try breathing through a 50' garden hose. The hose is the same diameter throughout, but as the length increases, so does the resistance to the passage of air through it. Hence, longer intake lengths associated with snorkels decrease air flow, all other things being equal. If you install a snorkel and a high flow air filter, the effect may be a net-zero change over stock. If you point the snorkel forward you may get a small ram-air effect, but the effect is slight due to the small size of the inlet, and to have any effect at all, you have to be going forward at a high rate of speed. Most folks don't install snorkels in lieu of ram-air intakes.
5. I don't need a snorkel to drive through deep water because of the bow wave effect which keeps water out from under the hood.
This is only true to the extend that you stay in motion, and then only if you are driving against the flow of the water if there is any flow. If you drive downstream, you lose the bow wave and water will rise under the hood. If you stop, water will rise. I don't know about you guys, but deep water crossings don't always go as planned. I have often needed to stop and even reverse while crossing deep water. There is a serious risk of ingesting water if you drive deep enough without a snorkel.
6. Fans with clutches won't flex forward into the radiator.
Really? Take a look at the back side of my radiator some time. It takes time for a clutched fan to stop spinning, even if the water is deep enough and solid enough to actually stop the fan from spinning, and during that brief time, the blades will flex. Whether they flex far enough to contact the radiator depends on conditions and clearance. In my experience, the fan rarely stops spinning just because of water under the hood. For racing, I use an electric fan with an override switch so I can turn the fan off for deep water crossings. For general trails use I use a clutched fan and drive more carefully in deep water.
7. Unless you waterproof your electricals and electronics under the hood, a snorkel will do you no good.
Waterproofing and a snorkel are not the same thing and address two quite different problems. Most engines will suffer water on them without problems as long as the water is not deep and static, and most modern ignitions systems are already very waterproof. I did do a bit of silicon sealing in the base of my distributor because the Ford design uses a two-piece distributor base. Other than that, though, I didn't do anything to waterproof the motor, and it has never had a problem running through up to 4 feet of moving water. Waterproofing is a very good idea if you see a lot of water. If you don't, however, you will probably just be keeping water in your ignition rather than keeping it out. Airborne moisture will condense on surfaces and you will get water contamination in a distributor if it is "sealed" because you can't keep air out entirely, and air aways has some moisture in it. I would suggest that sealing components under the hood is okay if you do so to prevent dust and water from getting in readily, but you should always leave a drain or vent to eliminate water vapor contamination.
So, whether you need to install a snorkel depends on where and how you drive. If you never cross water deeper than the tops of your tires, you probably don't need a snorkel. If you don't drive in endless caravans in desert dust (high-speed stuff where the dust is so thick you can't see the guy in front of you without tailgating) a snorkel will be of limited use. If you can't predict that you will not see deep water and thick dust, a snorkel can be considered to be preventive medicine. In central Arizona, there is only a limited use for a snorkel unless you like to drive through rivers in flood. In Alaska, we crossed through 3 to 4 feet of water quite often, and going without a snorkel invited disaster.
1. Snorkels are for mall cruisers.
While many snorkels are, in fact, installed on mall cruisers because of the look, they were not designed for show. They do just what they appear to do -- they raise the intake level from under the hood to a point at or near the top of the windshield. Doing this provides some benefits which may or may not be of value to you, depending on where and how you drive.
2. Snorkels provide cleaner air.
That would depend on where and how you drive. In caravan in dusty conditions, you can and generally do get less dust concentration at the top of your windshield, but only if you tend to tailgate the guy in front of you. If you hang well back, the dust rises and whether the air then is cleaner at windshield height or not may be debatable.
3. Unless you raise your exhaust to above water level, the snorkel does no good.
This could not be further from the truth. An internal combustion engine will run indefinitely with the exhaust outlet under water. I have experienced a running engine with the exhaust 4 to 6 feet under water, with the motor at idle for 15 minutes or more.
4. A snorkel will provide more air than an air cleaner under the hood.
This has to have been spoken without thought. First, there is probably not an apples-to-apples comparison going here unless the snorkel is attached to the stock airbox without any further modifications, such as a K&N filter. If the only modification is the snorkel itself, it will generally provide less air flow than the stock inlet because of the length of the tubing through which the air must flow. There is a formula for surface drag versus length, but as a quick example which most would probably understand, try breathing through a short piece of garden hose (under 12"). Then try breathing through a 50' garden hose. The hose is the same diameter throughout, but as the length increases, so does the resistance to the passage of air through it. Hence, longer intake lengths associated with snorkels decrease air flow, all other things being equal. If you install a snorkel and a high flow air filter, the effect may be a net-zero change over stock. If you point the snorkel forward you may get a small ram-air effect, but the effect is slight due to the small size of the inlet, and to have any effect at all, you have to be going forward at a high rate of speed. Most folks don't install snorkels in lieu of ram-air intakes.
5. I don't need a snorkel to drive through deep water because of the bow wave effect which keeps water out from under the hood.
This is only true to the extend that you stay in motion, and then only if you are driving against the flow of the water if there is any flow. If you drive downstream, you lose the bow wave and water will rise under the hood. If you stop, water will rise. I don't know about you guys, but deep water crossings don't always go as planned. I have often needed to stop and even reverse while crossing deep water. There is a serious risk of ingesting water if you drive deep enough without a snorkel.
6. Fans with clutches won't flex forward into the radiator.
Really? Take a look at the back side of my radiator some time. It takes time for a clutched fan to stop spinning, even if the water is deep enough and solid enough to actually stop the fan from spinning, and during that brief time, the blades will flex. Whether they flex far enough to contact the radiator depends on conditions and clearance. In my experience, the fan rarely stops spinning just because of water under the hood. For racing, I use an electric fan with an override switch so I can turn the fan off for deep water crossings. For general trails use I use a clutched fan and drive more carefully in deep water.
7. Unless you waterproof your electricals and electronics under the hood, a snorkel will do you no good.
Waterproofing and a snorkel are not the same thing and address two quite different problems. Most engines will suffer water on them without problems as long as the water is not deep and static, and most modern ignitions systems are already very waterproof. I did do a bit of silicon sealing in the base of my distributor because the Ford design uses a two-piece distributor base. Other than that, though, I didn't do anything to waterproof the motor, and it has never had a problem running through up to 4 feet of moving water. Waterproofing is a very good idea if you see a lot of water. If you don't, however, you will probably just be keeping water in your ignition rather than keeping it out. Airborne moisture will condense on surfaces and you will get water contamination in a distributor if it is "sealed" because you can't keep air out entirely, and air aways has some moisture in it. I would suggest that sealing components under the hood is okay if you do so to prevent dust and water from getting in readily, but you should always leave a drain or vent to eliminate water vapor contamination.
So, whether you need to install a snorkel depends on where and how you drive. If you never cross water deeper than the tops of your tires, you probably don't need a snorkel. If you don't drive in endless caravans in desert dust (high-speed stuff where the dust is so thick you can't see the guy in front of you without tailgating) a snorkel will be of limited use. If you can't predict that you will not see deep water and thick dust, a snorkel can be considered to be preventive medicine. In central Arizona, there is only a limited use for a snorkel unless you like to drive through rivers in flood. In Alaska, we crossed through 3 to 4 feet of water quite often, and going without a snorkel invited disaster.
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Overland Hadley
on a journey
Madizell, Thanks for the informative post.
Blizz
Observer
Ops sorry, I forgot to post my snorkel build-up:
http://www.yotatech.com/f88/custom-snorkel-build-up-79074/
David
http://www.yotatech.com/f88/custom-snorkel-build-up-79074/
David