Spy photo of new AT Trailer
- Thread starter spressomon
- Start date
eepwall: Is there no kind of patent on these?
The exact same thing has been offered down under for years.http://images.google.com/imgres?img...sp=18&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&sa=N
Notice the suspension among other thing's.
The exact same thing has been offered down under for years.http://images.google.com/imgres?img...sp=18&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&sa=N
Notice the suspension among other thing's.
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GeoTracker90
Adventurer
T- Bone said:
T-Bone please read at your own risk. The following may offend you.
The above quote is an example of an uninformed person commenting on something that they know very little to nothing about. If said person would avail themself to use the great power of search they would soon find, in very recent discussion, comments from M&M regarding the design and co-operative effort from multiple manufacturers regarding the much anticipated new offering from AT. They would also find a pretty interesting mini discussion about patents and patent infringement.
Before infering that M&M are getting close to patent infringement please do you home work. From the link provided, and my knowledge of AT newest suspension arrangement, I am wondering which patent they may have to worry about. Is it the one dealing the the stacked strips of spring steel or is it the one dealing with coiled round bars of spring steel?:violent-smiley-031:
Rant off!
Mike
snakeii
Observer
The trailing arm design is nothing new, how could anybody patent the basic concept? Its almost as bad as saying Al Gore invented the internet...
Looks like AT is out playing until the 8th... I'm designing my own trailer and I think the only off the shelf items I'll be using is AT's trailing arm kit and the Lock N Roll. Their trailing arm... well, why reinvent the wheel when it cant get any better then theirs? Except of course if it was free...
So far I have yet to see a trailer do everything I need it to do. I'm planning on starting the build in a few months, and by next spring/summer I'll have it complete. The cost will be less then half of the manufactured off road trailers. So far the frame, including the tongue/a-frame, is approximately 90 lbs. 95% will be aluminum, the other 5 is hardware, Lock N Roll and other smaller items.
I'll post some pics once I get it built. A new RRA stoner has top priority though, before the next pres decides to take away more of our gun rights. Live free or die, ********...
Looks like AT is out playing until the 8th... I'm designing my own trailer and I think the only off the shelf items I'll be using is AT's trailing arm kit and the Lock N Roll. Their trailing arm... well, why reinvent the wheel when it cant get any better then theirs? Except of course if it was free...
So far I have yet to see a trailer do everything I need it to do. I'm planning on starting the build in a few months, and by next spring/summer I'll have it complete. The cost will be less then half of the manufactured off road trailers. So far the frame, including the tongue/a-frame, is approximately 90 lbs. 95% will be aluminum, the other 5 is hardware, Lock N Roll and other smaller items.
I'll post some pics once I get it built. A new RRA stoner has top priority though, before the next pres decides to take away more of our gun rights. Live free or die, ********...
GeoTracker90 said:
Mike
Your “Rant” was irrational and uncalled for.
I was simply comparing two nearly identical trailer designs. Not just suspension designs. I am not privy to the latest.
Yes I admit that I have little to no knowledge of patent laws which is why I asked the question.
Before accusing me, give me the benefit of the doubt. Based on said prior discussion (still have not found prior discussion), it's obviously a question worthy of discussion. Sorry for the repost. I have not read the entire forum. (Guess I better do my homework)
This forum seems to lean heavily towards one or two manufactures but, I had no idea how heavily until now. I was not criticizing AT's business ethics. I was simply asking a question.
I wish you spent as much time helping to answer this question as you did flaming me for asking it. I would value your opinion much more in the future.
I will try to remember to use said "great power of search" before posting so as not to offend you in the future.
About the trailer. AT seems committed to capability and I have no doubt that they will address what seem to be the weaknesses that other trailers of this design have. I look forward to seeing the end result. I may even order one.
T
Scott Brady
Founder
T-Bone,
All Mike is saying is that AT is working directly with the importer/manufacturer of the Cub trailer, which was shown in the link you provided. The new AT trailer looks a little like the Cub because they are working as a collaborative effort.
All Mike is saying is that AT is working directly with the importer/manufacturer of the Cub trailer, which was shown in the link you provided. The new AT trailer looks a little like the Cub because they are working as a collaborative effort.
rusty_tlc
Explorer
I'd be happy if they offered the product with no improvments. This style of trailer simply is not available in the US from anybody. There is one similar style sold in Canada but it is a lighter on-road design.T- Bone said:
BTW there does seem to be a limited number of vendors that get "air time" on this forum. Probably because they are active members and have supported the forum since it's launch. In my experience none of them ever bad mouth competing vendors, in fact they are quick to point out the good features of other products. I doubt I could be that unbiased in their place.
GeoTracker90
Adventurer
T- Bone said:
Ok, teaching moment...
Using the search feature of this forum we conduct a search for "Cub" and this results page is displayed.
We can then start looking at the threads and see what the referance was. If we look at the second search result for Cub we can scroll through and find that our search term is highlighted in red where ever it appears in the discussion.
Now lets do the same exercise with the term "patent." Again our second search result is the Horizon Trailer COPYCAT discussion thread. Feel free to scroll through and find the mentions of patent in that thread. It makes for some interesting reading. There is discussion on what patent infringement is as well as some definitions of what a copy is.
Now if there is any question as to what my thoughts are on the state of the expedition trailer market in the USA please read my response here in that same COPYCAT thread. Pay special attention to my summary and also remember that I am currently building a trailer for fellow Expo member TheGillz.
One last note about patents. As I understand it they are only as good as your ability to persue people who infringe on them. So if I hold a patent for some whiz bang gizmo and another company decides that hey that is a good idea and I can make money by ripping off that design, well if I don't have the money to fight it in court, or to collect the evidence to fight it in court then my patent doesn't do me a lot of good. Additionally if I understand things correctly there are some patents that have a limited life span and expire after X amount of time.
To get around this some companies use closly guarded "trade secrets" instead of patents to protect their product. An example of this is the Pepsi and Coke rivalry. In recent memory there was criminal action brought to bear on an employee of one of these companies that was trying to sell trade secrets to the rival company.
Another company that uses trade secrets to protect its product Crocks. The recipe that they use to form the material for their footwear has not been patented. If it was patented then all of their competition could see the recipe and change it just enough to work around the patent. How many companies do you see selling similar products to Crocs? They may have the same design and look but a different name. In addition to the trade secret of how the material is made Crocs also holds some patents and they are currently fighting to defend them.
If the above research helps fail to give the results that you are looking for you could always follow some really good advice that I recently recieved. It is as follows:
You may even want to email him to ask, sometimes the brazen approach is best.
I appreciated that little bit of insight that I recieved, and as it implies sometimes if you have a question it is better to go straight to the source and ask your question.
This is all probably more than you wanted to know so I had better stop now.
Lesson concluded... now where are the updated pictures? Any one? Any one?
Mike
snakeii
Observer
ntsqd said:
I have one engineer at work that is giving some input on the variations that it will have to withstand. Once I get it set up, tested and trued I'll be glad to share what I have... just not yet, hate to have someone take my ideas and beat me to them
I do wish I could justify buying a AT trailer, and then modify it to fit all my needs. I havent personally seen any, but from the pics they look pretty damn awesome. My plans are to purchase their trailing arm kit, that part of it I dont want to mess around with.
Anybody happen to know the distances for their arm mounts? I just need to know where I'll need to place some cross beams for the mounts, I could make a secondary frame below the main just for the suspension, which I could modify if need be.
Martyn
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
I just returned from 5 days camping in the Sierras, well rested and recharged.
Checking to see what I missed on the "Portal" since I have been away.
Interesting developments in this thread. A few thoughts ( I may ramble slightly).
Both Mario and I started Adventure Trailers in part to remove ourselves from industries and employers who were unscrupulous, had little integrity, would compromise quality for savings, and failed to value their customers. As a company who values all of these ideals we set the bar high and live by it every day.
We have created a loyal customer base, in part due to our policy of taking care of our customers and going the extra mile.
We believe in offering advice to those who ask for it, and we are willing to share the knowledge we have gained.
We find ourselves in 2008, seven years after forming the company, at the leading edge of off-road trailer manufacturing and design.
All good things.
We also find ourselves as an established company, leaders in the industry, and somewhat open to abuse for being where we are and what we are. I think this is to be expected due to our pole position.
For those of you who know us, Mario, Scotty, and myself, the negativity may seem unjust. We give freely of our ideas, we help you with your design issues, and we try to give unbiased opinions. If you are one of our customers you know we are a phone call or an e mail away, and we fix any problem you may encounter, sometimes before it happens. We'll also share our food and a cold beverage with you.
There is no issue when you know us or have some history with us. To those new to the forum, or off-road trailers we could be anyone. We haven't yet earned their trust or respect. We hope we will be able to do so by continuing to run a company that has the highest commitment to integrity, to continue to produce exceptional product, and share our ideas and knowledge.
I'm not certain how we gained your respect and trust, there must have been some process that you went through to get you there, everyone has to go through it.
Some people are just at the start of the process, and in my mind need to be gently and genuinely moved forward. Not everyone is going to agree with us or like us, and that's OK too, they just need the opportunity to see us for what we are and decide from there.
We value what you all have to say, the good and the not so good. So long as we remain truthful and respectful of one another we remain strong as a community.
Checking to see what I missed on the "Portal" since I have been away.
Interesting developments in this thread. A few thoughts ( I may ramble slightly).
Both Mario and I started Adventure Trailers in part to remove ourselves from industries and employers who were unscrupulous, had little integrity, would compromise quality for savings, and failed to value their customers. As a company who values all of these ideals we set the bar high and live by it every day.
We have created a loyal customer base, in part due to our policy of taking care of our customers and going the extra mile.
We believe in offering advice to those who ask for it, and we are willing to share the knowledge we have gained.
We find ourselves in 2008, seven years after forming the company, at the leading edge of off-road trailer manufacturing and design.
All good things.
We also find ourselves as an established company, leaders in the industry, and somewhat open to abuse for being where we are and what we are. I think this is to be expected due to our pole position.
For those of you who know us, Mario, Scotty, and myself, the negativity may seem unjust. We give freely of our ideas, we help you with your design issues, and we try to give unbiased opinions. If you are one of our customers you know we are a phone call or an e mail away, and we fix any problem you may encounter, sometimes before it happens. We'll also share our food and a cold beverage with you.
There is no issue when you know us or have some history with us. To those new to the forum, or off-road trailers we could be anyone. We haven't yet earned their trust or respect. We hope we will be able to do so by continuing to run a company that has the highest commitment to integrity, to continue to produce exceptional product, and share our ideas and knowledge.
I'm not certain how we gained your respect and trust, there must have been some process that you went through to get you there, everyone has to go through it.
Some people are just at the start of the process, and in my mind need to be gently and genuinely moved forward. Not everyone is going to agree with us or like us, and that's OK too, they just need the opportunity to see us for what we are and decide from there.
We value what you all have to say, the good and the not so good. So long as we remain truthful and respectful of one another we remain strong as a community.
