Surprised no one is discussing the Cybertruck today.

[life_w_vagabonds]

Yes, I forgot that some non Chinese companies were building cars in China for US import. The 27.5% tariff is apparently not enough to stop it. Most likely there are made there for China sales and world export, and adding the US to the mix was less costly than building a factory here. Any car company has unique challenges for entering the US market, and China in particular.

I don't think passing EU tests means they'd pass our tests. At any rate, they need to pass our tests before they are sold here.

Absolutely, about passing US crash tests. I don’t believe that or the current tariffs are the biggest hurdles. Protectionism would be the biggest, the auto industry is far from a “free market”. Wouldn’t survive without government help but acts like a spoiled child when asked to change.

Even more infuriating when you realize that US manufacturers make EVs and sell them at a profit in other markets, but insist they can’t survive under increased fleet mpg standards here.

 

[NevadaLover]

What Chinese vehicles are you thinking of? There aren't any licensed to use on the road that I'm aware of. The "needs of American buyers"...got some coffee in my sinuses when I read that. Maybe you meant the needs of American regulators?

The auto industry is highly protectionist. There are big tariffs (25%) on imported SUVs and trucks (unless from Mexico or Canada), and where China is concerned there is a 25% tariff on vehicles in the "car" class also. Passing our unique crash, safety, and emissions standards is an onerous and expensive process, which every new vehicle sold here must meet. It appears they don't have mandatory crash standards in Europe... there is an agency that tests them, but compliance isn't required. And as we all know, you can't personally import and license a vehicle in the US unless it's 25+ years old. This also isn't a rule in Europe.

If you wanna talk about freedom...

As vagabond said, plenty of chinese product available in the states, and a tariff isn't much of a deterrent to someone who really wants a specific product, the chicken tax is proof of that.

And as far as freedom goes, we are still a country with much more freedom than any other country, but every day we lose more and more because the elected morons take them with very little pushback from the voters, the overturning of roe v. wade being one of the few that really is being fought back against.

And now the MSM is already vilifying the cybertruck with crap that is pure conjecture but will be accepted as true by the gullible.

Pedestrians, already dying at record levels, now face Elon Musk’s Cybertruck

The size and acceleration of the truck adds to a trend that safety advocates say has made accidents more lethal.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[calicamper]

What Chinese vehicles are you thinking of? There aren't any licensed to use on the road that I'm aware of. The "needs of American buyers"...got some coffee in my sinuses when I read that. Maybe you meant the needs of American regulators?

The auto industry is highly protectionist. There are big tariffs (25%) on imported SUVs and trucks (unless from Mexico or Canada), and where China is concerned there is a 25% tariff on vehicles in the "car" class also. Passing our unique crash, safety, and emissions standards is an onerous and expensive process, which every new vehicle sold here must meet. It appears they don't have mandatory crash standards in Europe... there is an agency that tests them, but compliance isn't required. And as we all know, you can't personally import and license a vehicle in the US unless it's 25+ years old. This also isn't a rule in Europe.

If you wanna talk about freedom...

Tesla is the most most domestic car company with 100% US manufacture (actually on topic!). Ford is 2nd with 77.5%.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-cars-com-american-made-index-what-about-the-least-american-cars-467588/

The Anti Tesla people crack me up given that its the first truly American auto company to successfully startup and grow since the early days when we had several American auto makers successfully start up and grow their business. Many folded up as competition grew but they were American ingenuity and businesses.

Tesla despite being a lightning rod for drama thanks to Musk is literally a textbook example American Company that Americans want to see but the most outspoken “Americans” who ban Tesla business from their state, create laws to prevent an American Company from succeeding all while giving tax concessions to Hyundai-Kia, Toyota, are the same people who are fighting to restrict voting access, restrict women’s healthcare access, ban books etc. Its a population of people who are literally walking the same moral path as the Taliban, and other ultra conservative groups that foist rules on others to hold power and influence over a population.

Texas talks a whole lot of trash these days but Tesla HQ is still in CA. Even the engineering division is “back” in CA. Yup it moved to Texas then moved back due to issues getting skilled engineers.

Its crazy how fast our country has changed in just 50yrs. We went from functioning GOV parties, nuclear science, space science, to dysfunctional do nothing political parties. We went from American pride to basically screw anyone doing something different. Especially if multi media spinners can get funding (from who knows where?) to spew complete garbage and influence large groups of people etc.

Hell add in the AI capabilities spinning up, our country will implode all on its own thanks to the population of easily manipulated idiots.

Will we have vehicles in the future? Hell yes.. What will they be like? Who really knows! But they will be more efficient and cleaner than what we have today. Will our society behavior and past times change? Hell yes!! It was only 120ish yrs ago most people did stuff that didn’t involve driving a vehicle. Will we be driving ATVs all over for entertainment? Probably not.. cost of resources will make it prohibitively expensive ie pointless.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I think we are talking about different things. I'm making fun of the way we keep normalizing bigger and more extreme vehicles. And how so many people "need" pickups now than they did in the past, even though there is a lot less pickup stuff being done.

The Cybertruck is just a different take on the same theme. You seem to be offended that it is called a truck...

I'll give you the over sizing. Agree 100%. Back in 06 I was looking for a Honda Accord to replace my 94. The 06 Civic had gained in size to be as big as a 94 Accord. Today's accord being as big as an older impala, and so on.

And I'm not offended Cyber Truck is called a truck. If an Avalanche or Hummer EV can be a truck, so can the Cyber Truck. I'm Meryl lamenting that some of it's best qualities really have nothing to do with truckishness

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

I'll give you the over sizing. Agree 100%. Back in 06 I was looking for a Honda Accord to replace my 94. The 06 Civic had gained in size to be as big as a 94 Accord. Today's accord being as big as an older impala, and so on.

And I'm not offended Cyber Truck is called a truck. If an Avalanche or Hummer EV can be a truck, so can the Cyber Truck. I'm Meryl lamenting that some of it's best qualities really have nothing to do with truckishness

In many cases the increasing size has outpaced efficiency. The new Ranger gets almost identical mpg and CO2 grams per mile as a 15 year old Ranger.

I found this out looking at EPA data. In the Rangers case it’s a stark example because it’s essentially the same 2.3. The truck now is bigger but it took a twin stage turbo, a ten speed transmission and a whole lot more attention to aero to get nowhere. No, that’s not true, we also get a smaller bed and safety stuff…

One example of a trend across the entire auto market available to Americans. Of course hybridization is the only bright side of combustion and the rate of adoption by US manufacturers has been abysmal. We got the Honda Insight in 1999, there is no reason why every vehicle could not have a real hybrid options by now. Not the BS mild hybrid crap, the real stuff like Nissans e-power or even GMs Voltec or Fords Energi. Parts bin adaptations.

If vehicle size had stayed the same and hybridization was universal we’d be in tremendously better shape with emissions. We didn’t do the work and now we need to scramble to electrification because we’ve ran out of time. It’s never really been a technology problem, still isn’t.

 

[AbleGuy]

Could this really be the true origin for Elong’s brain fart of coming up with the radical design for the CT? Cogitate while you urinate!

It could possibly be true…because after all some iconoclasts have reputedly been reported to have done some of their best creative thinking and problem solving whilst standing spraddle legged at the portal of the altar of hot liquid acceptance and mulling over the mysteries of the universe, yah?

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

Could this really be the true origin for Elong’s brain fart of coming up with the radical design for the CT? Cogitate while you urinate!

It could possibly be true…because after all some iconoclasts have reputedly been reported to have done some of their best creative thinking and problem solving whilst standing spraddle legged at the portal of the altar of hot liquid acceptance and mulling over the mysteries of the universe, yah?

View attachment 811078

You’ve leaked a trade secret!

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Could this really be the true origin for Elong’s brain fart of coming up with the radical design for the CT? Cogitate while you urinate!

It could possibly be true…because after all some iconoclasts have reputedly been reported to have done some of their best creative thinking and problem solving whilst standing spraddle legged at the portal of the altar of hot liquid acceptance and mulling over the mysteries of the universe, yah?

View attachment 811078

Actually the precursor tocybertruck was made famous by Sly and Kurt many years ago.

 

[NevadaLover]

Could this really be the true origin for Elong’s brain fart of coming up with the radical design for the CT? Cogitate while you urinate!

It could possibly be true…because after all some iconoclasts have reputedly been reported to have done some of their best creative thinking and problem solving whilst standing spraddle legged at the portal of the altar of hot liquid acceptance and mulling over the mysteries of the universe, yah?

View attachment 811078

Yeah, I'll never understand why elon went clear out to left field to get the CT design, I wonder if he visited Lucy in the skies for some inspiration?

 

[epyonxero]

The Anti Tesla people crack me up given that its the first truly American auto company to successfully startup and grow since the early days when we had several American auto makers successfully start up and grow their business. Many folded up as competition grew but they were American ingenuity and businesses.

Tesla despite being a lightning rod for drama thanks to Musk is literally a textbook example American Company that Americans want to see but the most outspoken “Americans” who ban Tesla business from their state, create laws to prevent an American Company from succeeding all while giving tax concessions to Hyundai-Kia, Toyota, are the same people who are fighting to restrict voting access, restrict women’s healthcare access, ban books etc. Its a population of people who are literally walking the same moral path as the Taliban, and other ultra conservative groups that foist rules on others to hold power and influence over a population.

Texas talks a whole lot of trash these days but Tesla HQ is still in CA. Even the engineering division is “back” in CA. Yup it moved to Texas then moved back due to issues getting skilled engineers.

Its crazy how fast our country has changed in just 50yrs. We went from functioning GOV parties, nuclear science, space science, to dysfunctional do nothing political parties. We went from American pride to basically screw anyone doing something different. Especially if multi media spinners can get funding (from who knows where?) to spew complete garbage and influence large groups of people etc.

Hell add in the AI capabilities spinning up, our country will implode all on its own thanks to the population of easily manipulated idiots.

Will we have vehicles in the future? Hell yes.. What will they be like? Who really knows! But they will be more efficient and cleaner than what we have today. Will our society behavior and past times change? Hell yes!! It was only 120ish yrs ago most people did stuff that didn’t involve driving a vehicle. Will we be driving ATVs all over for entertainment? Probably not.. cost of resources will make it prohibitively expensive ie pointless.

Tesla only survived because of massive government subsidy. Not unlike just like nuclear power and space exploration. Despite all the talk about free-market ingenuity very few businesses are willing to take the risk of real innovation without some type of government backstop. Unfortunately the sort of long-term investment in our future has been dwindling for decades.

 

[rruff]

And as far as freedom goes, we are still a country with much more freedom than any other country

You'd have to pick and choose which freedoms are important to you, and how much you have to "pay" for them.

I don't think anyone who's taken an objective look at this would put the US at the top. We are ranked 15th here, tied with Japan and Germany:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freest-countries

For economic freedom, we rank 25th:

Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

Country rankings based on economic freedom. World and global economy rankings from the Index of Economic Freedom are published by The Heritage Foundation.

www.heritage.org

I would post a Jim Jefferies skit, but it would get me banned...

 

[NevadaLover]

You'd have to pick and choose which freedoms are important to you, and how much you have to "pay" for them.

I don't prescribe to the thought process in which Americans are only allowed a specific number of freedoms and have to pick and choose, that's nonsense!

You can play at that game but I'm not going to, and the cost of freedom is part of the price we pay as Americans to have and keep our freedoms, even as they are attacked from multiple sides constantly, such is life.

 

[Howard70]

I don't prescribe to the thought process in which Americans are only allowed a specific number of freedoms and have to pick and choose, that's nonsense!

You can play at that game but I'm not going to, and the cost of freedom is part of the price we pay as Americans to have and keep our freedoms, even as they are attacked from multiple sides constantly, such is life.

I think the point @rruff was making is that us Americans (that is all of us - not just one or another group of us) really have fewer ”freedoms” that the citizens of 15 other countries and less economic freedom than the citizens of 25 other countries.

Interesting point. I’ve only visited about 12 other countries across North & South America, Europe & Australia so my sample is small. In about 1/2 of those countries folks seemed to have more general “freedoms” that we do and in about 1/2 they seemed equal to us or perhaps less “free.” One thing that definitely stands out about Americans compared to citizens of those other countries is that we are less welcoming and generally angrier.

Howard

 

[calicamper]

Tesla only survived because of massive government subsidy. Not unlike just like nuclear power and space exploration. Despite all the talk about free-market ingenuity very few businesses are willing to take the risk of real innovation without some type of government backstop. Unfortunately the sort of long-term investment in our future has been dwindling for decades.

If you don’t think that Chinese auto makers, German Auto makers, Korean Auto Makers don’t get GOV support, funding, (Chinese espionage support) your living in a bubble of non reality.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I think the point @rruff was making is that us Americans (that is all of us - not just one or another group of us) really have fewer ”freedoms” that the citizens of 15 other countries and less economic freedom than the citizens of 25 other countries.

Interesting point. I’ve only visited about 12 other countries across North & South America, Europe & Australia so my sample is small. In about 1/2 of those countries folks seemed to have more general “freedoms” that we do and in about 1/2 they seemed equal to us or perhaps less “free.” One thing that definitely stands out about Americans compared to citizens of those other countries is that we are less welcoming and generally angrier.

Howard

Look at our amendments- no one else has the first two- but we could keep going down the list. As for friendly- they should be we give them all a lot of money.