TerraLiner:12 m Globally Mobile Beach House/Class-A Crossover w 6x6 Hybrid Drivetrain

[biotect]

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But I don't want just a bedroom on the second level.

I also want a living room/study + meditation area up there, too:






Which means that I need the headroom on the second level to be standing height. It cannot be just a crawl-space, as per the UniCat and Armadillo bedrooms just pictured.

I also want that second floor to have big windows with expansive, panoramic views:





Which means that I will need a two-storey Pop-Up, something like a cross between these two:





Which means that I will probably need outrigger stabilizer jacks of the kind used on Fire-Trucks, like these:




[video=youtube;Ixx1pmXgvE4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx1pmXgvE4 [/video]


To guarantee that the the motorhome does not blow over, even in a stiff wind, when the Pop-Up is fully extended. See post #878 http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/124789-Fully-Integrated-MAN-or-TATRA-6x6-or-8x8-Expedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page88 .

Now thjakits, you may disagree with my whole line of reasoning. Or you may think the very idea of a full-height second-storey Pop-Up is a bit daft. But I have been "signalling" from the very beginning of the thread that this is my express intention......:sombrero:

All best wishes,



Biotect

 

[thjakits]

Remember, you are dealing with a cybernetically enhanced Biotect!

.....what another one? I thought Optimusprime is the the only one around?!!:Wow1:




thjakits

 

[dwh]

dwh,

Now, to add more fuel to the fire of this debate REOutShootinghunter), even in the one-E-motor-per-axle configuration, would you still advocate IS? Do think that even in this three-E-motor configuration, the right kind of IS could offer:

• a better, smoother ride overall?
• higher ground clearance along the center line of the vehicle, i.e. less junk in the center? Perhaps via "wishbone" IS?

Well...here's the thing...

If you go with one drive per axle - no matter if it's live axle or independent - you're going to have the junk in the center because you've got to have a differential to direct power to both sides. With one drive per wheel, you could jimmy up a suspension to eliminate the junk in the center, but you would have a difficult time doing that with one drive per axle. Portals would be about the only way to increase the center clearance.

So...

With one drive per wheel out the window, I'd say at this point, just get back to basics. If I were to build something like this right now today, I'd go with the Tatra. That transaxle has a single power input point, and that's very sexy from a modular design POV. That transaxle gives you a well-proven modular transaxle drive train with a well-proven modular suspension.

Not only that, but the Tatra suspension can be coil spring, leaf spring, air bag -whatever you want. You could even make it hydro-pneumatic.


Now, to drive that puppy, you can use a single large drive motor, which eliminates a whole lot of complexity in drive control systems. I'd say something like:

motor->torque converter->regen braking (really just a bigass alternator)->gearbox for low range and reverse

Put all that in a single cradle and it's modular as well. And it would certainly be up above the transaxle, so it'll be well protected. For that matter, the housing for the drive module could be waterproof, and use a boat driveshaft style seal where the power shaft comes out to mate with the transaxle. So your entire electric drive stays dry as a bone.

You could use the clutch pedal to control the regen braking, and have two brake systems - the original air brakes, and the regen. Or you could control it via a "johnson valve" doohicky, or integrate it so it *behaves* like the "jake brake" or exhaust brake on a regular diesel engine.

Then, you can make the generator unit a module as well.
Battery too.

 

[dwh]

Where did you get these terrific images? The weblink doesn't provide them -- see http://www.xor.org.uk/travel/china2002/20021012.htm . I found one of them at http://www.xor.org.uk/silkroute/equipment/choosevan.htm , but the other?

Elementary my dear Watson.

If you look at the index of the journal entries from the trip:

http://www.xor.org.uk/travel/china2002/

You'll note that a few of the entries have titles which begin, "More Photographs..."

 

[dwh]

Perhaps I should put the question to you this way: how much clearance do you think the TerraLiner really needs, or should have, down the centerline?

Stephen Stewart already defined that - as high or higher than the most common vehicle. No matter where you go, that is almost always going to be some sort of commercial (and probably 2WD) truck. So a big truck with really big tires (MAN, Tatra, Mog) should do the job regardless of portals or junk in the center.

If the TerraLiner has straight axles without portals, of course the answer will be the diameter of the tires, minus a bit, so 50 cm or so. Do you think this is insufficient? What would you consider the ideal figure, and why?

There is no ideal. No matter how high you go, there will occasionally be something higher. Bring a shovel. Or something softer as the case may be - look at pics from Congo. Bring a winch and a road crew.

As for off-the-shelf live axles and off-the-shelf portals: these do not have to be off-the shelf. Remember, it’s a concept vehicle. So if portals specifically engineered for higher speeds and a non-Unimog set of application parameters seem desirable, then portals should be included. It all depends on what everyone thinks would or should be an “ideal” centerline clearance.

I had thought it was Marmon-Harrington that made portals for their axles, but later remembered that it was Dana that I was thinking of:

http://www.dynatrac.com/products/axles/portals.html

 

[thjakits]

With one drive per wheel out the window, I'd say at this point, just get back to basics. If I were to build something like this right now today, I'd go with the Tatra. That transaxle has a single power input point, and that's very sexy from a modular design POV. That transaxle gives you a well-proven modular transaxle drive train with a well-proven modular suspension.

Well - I hope I have Bio re-consider and at least have some specialist e-drive engineer friends run the numbers before kicking out hub drives!

As it is - weight already creeping up and with Bio's latest fantasy (retractable double decker!) you might seriously consider to go back to TATRA and/or MAN/KAT chassis.

Now, to drive that puppy, you can use a single large drive motor, which eliminates a whole lot of complexity in drive control systems. I'd say something like:

Well - then just forget about the serial hybrid all together, give BOSCH a call and integrate their parallel hybrid!!
At the end it is all about the re-gen braking anyway (...on a long distance vehicle)

Part of the attraction of a serial hybrid is, that you CAN get rid of ALL of the transmissions!!

IF you keep the complete TATRA drivetrain - you are just adding the in-efficiency part of generating e-power to run the same-old-same-old with a e-motor!!
You lose twice! (generating loss and using loss) Might as well keep the Diesel drive a trans and transfer....

I think you cannot get any lower in motor count than on/per axle before you lose all advantages of the hybrid idea....



Now, Bio - what you have in mind regarding "multi-story apartment buildings" - .....I don't see this flying in the Explorer/Overlander environment.....

Even in the RV/Camper-camp you won't find many....


You see - first: HOW much head-room do you want to feel comfortable? Consider, that Terraliner not only will cruise on the Chinese/Tibetian High Plateau or NE-Siberia in winter, but also Africa, India, Oz, S-America and many times you will have HEAT, lot's of it! NOTHING worse than a ceiling falling on your head when it's hot!! I am 1.87m - and there is loads of folks that are taller. I would want at least 50 cm space over my head - so a floor-ceiling height of 2.40m would be great - that alone will leave your Terraliner close to 4m tall!!

Then - you are in a 2.2m wide box (max! rest goes into the walls!)! Now - if you put another floor on top - we end up being close to 6.5 m tall!!
To access the top floor you need to climb stairs - everytime! ...and fairly steep ones at that or you will lose some serious floor-space!

and then you want to lose the Slide-Outs???

[btw - I would prefer e-drive on the slide-outs to hydraulics - you can do jack-screw, toothbar and gear or even cable-winch or chain-drive.....- just remember to make it with a MANUAL back-up]

Mate - you want wide open spaces, but change the available volume into two narrow Hallways?!!

Sorry - I lost you Bio!



Seriously - WHAT do you want to place on top?? Bed-rooms, Living room, observation platform?

When you go to bed you WON't be looking out much - but every time you need to visit the loo - you got to climb down (or do you want the toilet on the upper floor too, and the shower - more stair-work again!! I believe your sample-target clients will be happy, that you provide their daily workout too! (Remember the elderly retired couple?)

Living room on an explorer is also mostly the dining room - where to you put the kitchen - top floor? .....or are we carrying the food up and the dishes down?

Observation platform - you will only observe when the weather allows it - so why not going outdoors and use the terraliner roof mounted (and if you wish extendable observation platform)

Look - Will Smith, and co. are NOT going exploring and overlanding with their rolling mansions.
Expo rigs are sales tools NOT exploring and overlanding tools....( ....and are mostly EMPTY space when not in use)



Frankly I predict that you will not sell a single Terraliner if this is the only configuration you provide!

As a client I would look towards max comfort - high ceilings - ample space, NO stair climbing (on a Explorer like Terraliner it is enough to have to get in an out - that's enough climbing!! (...as mentioned before I drove a Renault Magnum for a while - getting in an out was quite an exercise compared to the rest of the fleet!)

What I would do is, incorporate a lift-roof with fabric sides over the bedroom (like Wotahelizatt's) to enjoy the breez when the weather and location is favorable - and concentrate on maximizing Slide-out space/utility - which gives you also visually a bigger room.
With Slide-outs you can create them so, that you at least can use the installations even when they are retracted.

Unless you only want to create a lot of empty space on top - HOW are you going to pack everything.
With Slide-outs you are basically moving your installations horizontally out to create space.
This does NOT work vertically - I mean you can create huge space above your head, but I can't picture how you would be able to use anything from the upper space if the thing is retracted (or if everytying is installed on top - how to use your installations on the 1st floor.....

For your newest idea - you WILL need outriggers!! (a completely un-necessary weight and space waste in my book) and you STILL will feel the strong winds shaking you up on top (and the bottom floor for that matter)

Bio - I understand your Art-"Affliction", but in the end you try to invent a technical piece of equipment for a specific use.
Maybe you should try to start with the practical first and see how you make it artsy?!!

My arguments above are just the very first ones that come to mind....

If I need a special observation platform - I build it on top!

[This is just like a "Tree House Romance" - I love them, I love to look at them or visit one, but they are just so utterly useless and impractical!!

Terraliner will not just be a weekend or vacation retreat (or art statement) - you are planning to make it the actual HOME for someone for a EXTENDED period of time and a mean machine to go awsome places (...or so I thought)!


Bio admit it - you had dinner with Luigi just before you came up with this one!!!:friday:
(.....the Colani Luigi guy.......)



cheers,

thjakits

 

[biotect]

Well...here's the thing...

If you go with one drive per axle - no matter if it's live axle or independent - you're going to have the junk in the center because you've got to have a differential to direct power to both sides. With one drive per wheel, you could jimmy up a suspension to eliminate the junk in the center, but you would have a difficult time doing that with one drive per axle. Portals would be about the only way to increase the center clearance.

So...

With one drive per wheel out the window, I'd say at this point, just get back to basics. If I were to build something like this right now today, I'd go with the Tatra. That transaxle has a single power input point, and that's very sexy from a modular design POV. That transaxle gives you a well-proven modular transaxle drive train with a well-proven modular suspension.

Not only that, but the Tatra suspension can be coil spring, leaf spring, air bag -whatever you want. You could even make it hydro-pneumatic.


Now, to drive that puppy, you can use a single large drive motor, which eliminates a whole lot of complexity in drive control systems. I'd say something like:

motor->torque converter->regen braking (really just a bigass alternator)->gearbox for low range and reverse

Put all that in a single cradle and it's modular as well. And it would certainly be up above the transaxle, so it'll be well protected. For that matter, the housing for the drive module could be waterproof, and use a boat driveshaft style seal where the power shaft comes out to mate with the transaxle. So your entire electric drive stays dry as a bone.

You could use the clutch pedal to control the regen braking, and have two brake systems - the original air brakes, and the regen. Or you could control it via a "johnson valve" doohicky, or integrate it so it *behaves* like the "jake brake" or exhaust brake on a regular diesel engine.

Then, you can make the generator unit a module as well.
Battery too.

Hi dwh,

Really interesting proposal. Of course, one loses the redundancy of 3 E-motors, as well as the possibility that only one motor pushes the vehicle on the highway (thereby reducing electricity consumption?), while the other two motors are still "active" as alternators for regenerative braking. But that Bosch video which campo posted suggests how your proposal could even allow a parallel hybrid set-up, as opposed to serial:




Just attach this Bosch system to a Tatra backbone tube. The problem, of course, is that once we're in the land of parallel hybrid, the engine is no longer a diesel generator that can slide out on a tray. But still, your suggestion got me thinking, because as you know, I am fond of the Tatra backbone tube.....

All best wishes,



Biotect


PS -- Between the two of you, you and thjakits are generating a mountain of material that I will have to wade through during the next day or so. It's New Year's, and I have to return to my guests. And tomorrow I will probably take a bit of a break from the blog. So please don't be offended if I only begin responding to the last three or four pages worth of material around Saturday.....

 

[dwh]

Part of the attraction of a serial hybrid is, that you CAN get rid of ALL of the transmissions!!

No, you can't unless you go with one drive per wheel. In any other configuration, you've got differentials, and possibly portals - both of which are gearbox transmissions.

IF you keep the complete TATRA drivetrain - you are just adding the in-efficiency part of generating e-power to run the same-old-same-old with a e-motor!!

You lose twice! (generating loss and using loss) Might as well keep the Diesel drive a trans and transfer....

You lose twice no matter what you do. You convert fuel into electricity - not 100% efficient, and then converte electricity into motion - again, not 100% efficient.

I think you cannot get any lower in motor count than on/per axle before you lose all advantages of the hybrid idea....

Not at all, the one big advantage of the hybrid idea, as you've mentioned, is regenerative braking. Recovering momentum into useful energy which can then later be spent to make more momentum.


Now I'll digress into regen braking for a moment.

The biggest problem is that there is a limited amount of storage available for that energy. This is exactly the same as the problem a small wind turbine (non-feathering prop) has when charging batteries. With solar, when the battery bank is full, you simply disconnect the solar array. But with wind, the battery bank acts as a load which prevents overspeed of the prop. Once the battery bank is full, you can't keep dumping power into it, so the charge controller for a small wind turbine has a connection for a "dump load", which is usually just a big resistor or resistive heating element. This dump load acts as the load which prevents overspeed of the turbine.

I.e., no matter what, there must be a place for the power to go - because the turbine is not going to stop spinning.

With regen braking on a hybrid, the same problem exists - if the batteries (or capacitors) are full, then you CAN'T use regen braking.

Unless you provide some other place to "dump" the energy.

It's a problem...

 

[dwh]

Of course, one loses the redundancy of 3 E-motors,

It's not redundancy really. It's mostly just 3 points of failure. Oh, I suppose if one motor failed, you could keep going on the other two, but that's not real redundancy, because you'll be operating at 2/3 capacity.

as well as the possibility that only one motor pushes the vehicle on the highway (thereby reducing electricity consumption?),

No, that's a misleading idea. It takes X watts to push a giant brick through the air at Y speed. You can do it with one big motor, or three 1/3 size motors, but you'll still need X watts to get it done.

while the other two motors are still "active" as alternators for regenerative braking.

Another misleading idea. If you are pushing with one motor, you aren't pulling with two others. If you start pulling, you also stop pushing. It makes no sense to have one for pushing and two for pulling. Electrons move fast. When you let off the "go pedal" and move your foot to the "stop pedal", all three motors switch from pushing to pulling.

Sure, you can use just one to push the vehicle while the other two do nothing, but when you hit the brake pedal, all three will be acting to slow the truck down, because you want braking on all the wheels/axles, not just 2/3 of them.

And that scheme doesn't save you anything - you still gotta burn X watts to push the rig.

But that Bosch video which campo posted suggests how your proposal could even allow a parallel hybrid set-up, as opposed to serial:

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the parallel hybrid. Too complex to solve a simple problem. If you've got electrical generating capacity, electrical storage capacity, and electric motors - why add all that extra complexity to tie the diesel into the drivetrain? KISS principle.

PS -- Between the two of you, you and thjakits are generating a mountain of material that I will have to wade through during the next day or so. It's New Year's, and I have to return to my guests. And tomorrow I will probably take a bit of a break from the blog. So please don't be offended if I only begin responding to the last three or four pages worth of material around Saturday.....

Offended? I'm about to bail out for a while anyway. After New Years is when I like to head out to my buddy's large empty desert property and turn into a hermit for weeks, or months. I love the desert, but not when it's hot. Last year I think I went over 2 months without looking at the Internet once.

Screw the Internet, I'm gonna go play in the sandbox.

 

[dwh]

Oh, and Will Smith is a wimp. Years (decades?) ago, Rutger Hauer BUILT his own trailer. AND drove it. That's manly :

http://www.rutgerhauer.org/newsletters/nl010209.php

 

[thjakits]

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!

No, you can't unless you go with one drive per wheel. In any other configuration, you've got differentials, and possibly portals - both of which are gearbox transmissions.

You mentioned to just keep the whole TATRA-chassis. Part of the attraction of Serial hybrid is to NOT need a transmission/transfercase.
If put one big e-motor in front of that you "gain" the double conversion to/from e-power and a rough re-gen.....nothing else.
In a case like this it would certainly be better to go parallel hybrid....

As far as I can see - to stay efficient ans reasonably small/light with e-motors, you will need some reduction gearing anyway. Either at each motor or in the differential and/or hub....

The biggest problem is that there is a limited amount of storage available for that energy. This is exactly the same as the problem a small wind turbine (non-feathering prop) has when charging batteries. With solar, when the battery bank is full, you simply disconnect the solar array. But with wind, the battery bank acts as a load which prevents overspeed of the prop. Once the battery bank is full, you can't keep dumping power into it, so the charge controller for a small wind turbine has a connection for a "dump load", which is usually just a big resistor or resistive heating element. This dump load acts as the load which prevents overspeed of the turbine.

To avoid that - and considering that Terraliner will/should have a seriously sophisticated control system - you will need the restistive enery dissipator for the extreme case.
[Nothing new there - e-brakes are/were around a long time. I remember the TELMA e-brakes and saw a few burning trucks because of them! Generally a little lighter and a lot cheaper than the other energy waster brake: Voith-Schneider hydraulic retarder. At least that one would not burn - IF you knew how to use it: Keep the engine at high rpm - to move the cooling fluid through the retarder.....Also helped to bring the engine up to temp in short order!!]

With a integrated nav-system and little help form the driver it should be possible to manage the batteries according to anticipated needs - e.g. if you just about to reach the summit of a pass (nav-system should anticipate that easily) the control system should have the batteries at near empty - so there should be loads of space for re-gen going down the hill. IF you plan to stay on top of the pass - cancel the "anticipation" in the system....

Worst case - dissipate e-energy in heat (of course first heating all the water you need/want!!) There is also interesting stuff out there with heat-energy retention systems with wax/parrafins - AFTER the batteries are super-charged....





thjakits

 

[dwh]

You mentioned to just keep the whole TATRA-chassis. Part of the attraction of Serial hybrid is to NOT need a transmission/transfercase.

Not for me. The attraction is the ability to run on less or no hydrocarbon fuel, and regenerative braking.

Electric motors are great, and have a nice power curve. But a motor of a size optimized for highway cruising, is not the same size as the motor optimized for grinding through rocks and sand.

If I'm going to muscle around a 20 ton truck, then I want a transfer case to double the torque at half the speed. (Though it wouldn't actually be a "transfer" case if using a Tatra transaxle - it would just be a reduction gearbox, but I'll keep calling it a transfer case for simplicity.)

And while I'm at it, I might as well have a torque converter as well. They don't just convert - at low speed high RPM, they multiply torque. Since I'm going to want a transfer case gearbox, then I might as well have reverse there, rather than having to reverse the motor.

Of course, doing it that way, you don't get the regen from the drive motor, so you need something else for the regen. The 3-phase motor/inverter/battery charger from the Bosch parallel would probably work well for regen.

So as I said: motor->torque converter->regen->gearbox->transaxle

But with one drive per axle, then it's moot anyway.

If put one big e-motor in front of that you "gain" the double conversion to/from e-power and a rough re-gen.....nothing else.

(Um...technically, there is no need to call it e-motor. If it's electric, it's a motor, if it runs on fuel, it's an engine. )

"Rough regen"? What's that? You either regen or you don't.

In a case like this it would certainly be better to go parallel hybrid....

Maybe, maybe not.

The Bosch parallel system is "okay" for an over-the-road commercial truck. It's optimized for that. Even then, in that video they only claim a 6% fuel savings, and for a daily driver commercial truck, it's a 3 year amortization (based no doubt on pre-oil-glut fuel prices). That's nickels and dimes, which is okay for a commercial fleet operator, because of economy of scale.

So okay, maybe the Bosch system is the right one for a commercial truck, and would work to push an overlander truck around. But that system certainly isn't designed to accommodate the needs of the living quarters with all of its electrical needs.

At the bottom line, we're talking energy management, and the energy management schema for a commercial truck is not going to be the same as for an overlander. I look at the Bosch system in the vid and without even deeply thinking it through, the first impression that runs through my mind is, "The engine is too big and the battery is too small".

As far as I can see - to stay efficient ans reasonably small/light with e-motors, you will need some reduction gearing anyway. Either at each motor or in the differential and/or hub....

Well...you just shot down your own "the beauty of electric is no transmissions" argument.

To avoid that - and considering that Terraliner will/should have a seriously sophisticated control system - you will need the restistive enery dissipator for the extreme case.
[Nothing new there - e-brakes are/were around a long time. I remember the TELMA e-brakes and saw a few burning trucks because of them! Generally a little lighter and a lot cheaper than the other energy waster brake: Voith-Schneider hydraulic retarder. At least that one would not burn - IF you knew how to use it: Keep the engine at high rpm - to move the cooling fluid through the retarder.....Also helped to bring the engine up to temp in short order!!]

With a integrated nav-system and little help form the driver it should be possible to manage the batteries according to anticipated needs - e.g. if you just about to reach the summit of a pass (nav-system should anticipate that easily) the control system should have the batteries at near empty - so there should be loads of space for re-gen going down the hill. IF you plan to stay on top of the pass - cancel the "anticipation" in the system....

Good god...I can't even remember to turn off my headlights.

 

[biotect]

Man i love love that song!

My music taste is eclectic ( or just plain wierd to my kids!) so yes its a bit cheesy, but who cares!?!

Hi optimus,

If you liked that “Monkees” song, here are a few more. Long ago I decided that I'd cast my musical tastes far and wide. Most people don't realize it, but Pop and Rock markets tend to be regional. Anglophonic music is not universal, and only a few major bands like the Beatles or U2 will cross over to other countries outside the Anglosphere.

There is Italian Rock (for instance, Rocco Rossi), French Rap, German Metal, and so on. Most of this music is never heard in the Anglosphere, so the Anglophonic assumption tends to be that the rest of the world is listening to the same music. It is not.

Here are two Mexican bands, for instance, that in my experience most Anglophones have never heard of. And their music is great, and popular throughout Latin America and Spain.


*************************************


1. OV7


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OV7 started out as a Mexican "kids band" (they were all very young), but they've evolved into something much better. Again, this is light-Pop, but look up the lyrics in translation, and most of the slower, more romantic songs are quite moving, especially if you have some mastery of a Latin language – see http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...de.com/lyrics/o/ov7/confieso.html&prev=search , http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...etras.com/ov7/tenemos-un-secreto/&prev=search :



[video=youtube;AFD8wca2VTw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFD8wca2VTw&index=10&list=PLqfI4Vx8huKh2N3 k-S_KUv0gGRMyrZoV5[/video] [video=youtube;qp8yNALmO2k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp8yNALmO2k [/video]
[video=youtube;HJurnwilnnA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJurnwilnnA&index=6&list=PLr6LGGV059rMruSu SlXPu0JeujZsNbE4s[/video]


Also see https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLr6LGGV059rMruSuSlXPu0JeujZsNbE4s , , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac1d91EPlBA , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC9CHPHi1J8 , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3H98GdSF7A , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkNb23OZSgQ , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WpNs3NsKLE , and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSnkmT9t95s .herir

Although OV7's more upbeat songs are definitely light-Pop, what I perhaps like most about them is that in videos it's clear that they are having fun. They've been working together since they were kids, which is no doubt why their dancing/singing in concert is so natural and yet very tightly choreographed. What also comes across in the videos is that they've enjoyed their lives as performers, and that they seem to truly enjoy performing together. And further, perhaps because OV7 is gender-mixed, there's none of the arrogant, self-important posturing and swagger of all-boys bands. Nor is there much of the sickly-sweet sentimentality of all-girl groups. Because OV7 is gender-mixed, they can sing songs about gender tension and enact that tension dramatically in concert, through mock-ironic call/response sequences. In the videos they have fun and don't take themselves too seriously, even though they are probably the most successful light-Pop group in Mexican history -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OV7 and https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/OV7 .



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[biotect]

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2. Maná


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The second band is called “Maná”, and is equally famous throughout Latin America. It’s the Latin American equivalent of U2, and is less “Pop”, and a bit more “Rock”.

I didn't have much interest in "Hispanidad" or the "Lusopsphere" prior to living in Italy and Spain -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanidad , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanophone , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhispanism , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_America , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusophilia , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_speaker , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_entities_where_Portuguese_is_an_official_language , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Union :





Sure, because I am partly Canadian and my parents are German, I've always been intensely pro-French, and an ardent Francophile. But it was only after falling in love with Italy, and visiting Spain a number of times, that I got really hooked on the "Latinosphere". Liking France is easy, because as a few of my Italian friends have put it, France could be described as a "fake Latin" country. France is much more Germanic than any other Latin country. So making the transition from an English or Germanic culture to France is comparatively unproblematic. But learning to really love Latin culture -- which means loving countries like Italy, Spain, Portugal, and the Latin American countries -- that's another story.

Nothing beats "Maná" live in concert in San Juan, Puetro Rico:


[video=youtube;g5DR0tIb1S4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5DR0tIb1S4&list=RDkEh02EYKAc4&index=7 [/video] [video=youtube;a8d92KsULEc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8d92KsULEc [/video]


See especially the last video in the series, in which Fher (the group’s lead singer) unfurls a special double-flag that "represents Latin America, the myth and history of Latin America and the Caribbean, the first dream". The flag starts out Mexican, and becomes Puerto Rican:





Also see see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maná , http://www.mana.com.mx/ , http://www.warnermusic.com.mx/artista-mana.html?phpMyAdmin=62405a9d2a1cc32b62181e194ce72521/ , and http://en-gb.facebook.com/mana. And google the lyrics: again, they are really beautiful.

The first song, for instance, titled "En el muelle de San Blas", is actually a very sad song about a new bride, who loses the love of her life to the ocean, and stands waiting in her wedding dress for the rest of her life -- see http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/man/enelmuelledesanblas.html and http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...rics/man/enelmuelledesanblas.html&prev=search . Here is the more "official" video:




What I love about Maná is that a bit like Che Guevara, they are prophets of Latin American unity. They are intensely conscious and proud of Latin America as an autonomous and coherent civilization, and as an alternative to the Yankee-dominated Anglosphere. When you listen to Maná's songs, you can hear Latin-American pride singing its heart out. It also helps that Maná's audiences know the words by heart.

Apparently there are now more native-speakers of Spanish than English, which one can certainly believe. One of the most important reasons why Spanish speakers trail behind other ESL learners, is because Spanish is already an international language. Most English speakers are completely unaware of this basic fact. Even many ESL teachers are unaware of this basic fact. If you speak Spanish, you can travel far and wide across South and Central America, visiting lots of different countries. So there is not much motivation to learn English.

In any case, thought I’d lighten up the tone a bit, with these music videos. It’s Christmas and New Year’s, after all. Sure, these videos are totally and completely off-topic. But this is just one example of how horizons broaden when one travels. One learns to not only like, but actually love, the music of other cultures, other civilizations……

All best wishes,



Biotect

 

[thjakits]

Electric motors are great, and have a nice power curve. But a motor of a size optimized for highway cruising, is not the same size as the motor optimized for grinding through rocks and sand.

Field controlled - AC-motors can have FULL TORQUE off standstill..... transmission or not depends ONLY on RPM capability of the motor...
[...or was it DC motors, anyway - you will have to contol the start-up torque or you get a pain in the neck quickly....]

"Rough regen"? What's that? You either regen or you don't.

IF you have to re-gen to one motor your only ABS control is via brakes (friction brakes) and not via individual motor control - also re-gen through a trans (at the power levels you see at the Terraliner) will be rough....same as a "electronic" locker that uses ABS and brakes to "lock" the wheel - extremely rough...
braking alone is probably fine - until you need to control this on rough terrain...
Remember this is not a electric or hydraulic AUXILIARY brake - this is supposed to take over 98% of all braking action.....

....and you lose a lot of energy through the trans/transfer. [This also holds true for the BOSCH-parallel hybrid....]

Well...you just shot down your own "the beauty of electric is no transmissions" argument.

A e-motor optimizing reduction drive doesn't need any shifting implements and is optimized to the motor-size/target rpm.
No (heavy) "Trans/Transfer" refers to the big junk after the "engine".

Good god...I can't even remember to turn off my headlights.

Maybe then you should stay away from anything that has a motor or "engine" anyway ......:sombrero:


thjakitseepwall: