SkiWill
Well-known member
Yes, but you're one of a kind, and despite your best efforts, you're not single handedly keeping Toyota afloat. Though I do admire your efforts. My wife would never let me get away with such frequent vehicle purchases.
The Toyota Land Cruiser Is Coming Back To America
- Thread starter Christian P.
- Start date
Yes, but you're one of a kind, and despite your best efforts, you're not single handedly keeping Toyota afloat. Though I do admire your efforts. My wife would never let me get away with such frequent vehicle purchases.
nickw
Adventurer
Don't be a drama queen, we are just having a discussion....."Landcruiser" always meant something very specific in the US and that *may* be changing, I don't think that is a good thing and I am not alone. Your opinion is worth just as much as mine and has nothing to do with headlights on a Jeep....it has to do with design intent and quantitative engineering decisions.
There is a very specific reason Toyota puts HD axles, huge tie rod ends, BOF construction, high spline output shafts, ease of field repair, high hours/mileage design principles, etc. that is what we are talking about, I could care less about some design cues. Like I said, maybe that stuff is going to be HD....but it's not on a Prado if that is what this is based on.
Do you tell people you drive a "Landcruiser"?
nickw
Adventurer
Again - you water down this LC you lose the character of the rig. There is a reason 40/60/80/100's demand the premium they do in the market that NO other rig even comes close to. A manuf. builds a rig with certain engineering goals in mind, those goals are apparent based on how overbuilt the rig is and that is not something that bolting aftermarket parts onto is going to change.
If it's not a big deal why all the hoopla over a new "Landcruiser", just go out and buy a GX or a 4Runner, problem solved, they exist now. The very fact that it is big deal is because the name has legacy and means something very specific to a large number of people, Toyota knows that.
XJLI
Adventurer
Character is relative. If you or anyone else wants an 80 just buy one. $40k gets you a sub 100k absolutely mint late triple locked 80 in today's market, so you have $15k leftover from the supposed base price of a new 250 Prado for whatever you want. You want character? Buy a Land Rover. The amount of character in any Toyota product outside of something 25+ years old (and for argument's sake, the older products were just as bland when compared with their contemporaries) is a black and white sketch of cardboard box.
What kind of engineering goals are we talking about here? These are still Toyotas we're talking about, right? I'm not on the Land Rover subforum am I? You know what the Land Cruiser name means to Toyota HQ? Just money. Maybe a couple engineers and people in the factory in Japan have a lot of pride in the product, but the 60 and 80 were built when the Japanese were at the top of their game. The Crown, Supra, even the Camry and Corolla. All top notch for their time. The 100 came out, everyone flipped a ******** it went soft on IFS (because that's what the money-making markets of the US and Europe demanded in order to stay competitive), then the 200 came out and its pretty much a Tundra from the A-Pillars forward but somehow that's still a "real Land Cruiser" like the 300 which is now globally platformed shared across.. 7-8 trucks when all said and done. Toyota is literally engineering insane amounts of product testing, parts support and availability into the platform from day 0 (but also it's saving them a ton of cash, because, they need to make money).
Just a year ago everyone was hyped for the Sequioa getting revamped on TNGA-F with a solid rear axle. "It's almost like a 300!" Now we get an actual Prado here so people can stop dreaming about rebadging their GX460s and it still isn't good enough.
You Toyota people are insufferable. Toyota is out to make money. Yes, their current marketing plan is to blow up their bland vanilla image that they've been dealing with the last 20 years, and TBH, they're doing an insanely good job. But their goal is to move units; whether its someone buying due to internet hype over the manual trans Supra or someone coming back to buy their 8th 4Runner because they just get a new one every 4 years. Either way, they're doing everything right and they have this Toyota sceptic at the edge of his seat waiting to see what they're going to pull off next.
SkiWill
Well-known member
I get the frustration, but I was explaining why Toyota made the decisions that they did. In the rest of the world you can't or can't easily buy an inline 6 Cummins diesel 3/4 or 1 ton truck. In North America, it's possible, and they're everywhere. Such a vehicle matches exactly the HD specs and HD use factor with just as many Cummins diesels working over 300,000 miles as any other vehicle type in heinous oil field, mining, line maintenance and other environments that are as brutal on vehicles as anywhere else, and it's all done for way less than the cost of a Land Cruiser at least in North America.
I see you drive a Ram Power Wagon, so you've already got about as good as HD vehicle as any in the world. The HD Land Cruiser simply could not and did not compete in North America so it got canned. Want HD, buy an HD truck, which you already have. Want $90K luxury SUV, why buy a Toyota when there's Porsche, Range Rover, G class, etc.
There's almost no way to buy a Power Wagon or Cummins diesel truck in the rest of the world, so 70 series and other HD Land Cruisers dominate those markets.
Toyota does not care about a few thousand enthusiasts in North America enough to go through the hassle of selling 1/100th the volume of 300 series Land Cruisers to HD trucks from domestic brands. I disagree that this decision will ruin the brand. Toyota is known for the 4Runner, Tacoma, Camry, Highlander, and Prius by far more loyal Toyota buyers in North America than a few (and it is very few) Land Cruiser buyers. Ford alone sells 80% more F series trucks in a quarter than Toyota sells Tundras in an entire year. Toyota is not an HD player in North America and the numbers of their vehicle sales clearly show that.
The Bronco sells to "enthusiasts" but not Overlanding Enthusiasts. It's marketed towards those enthusiasts that want 35 or 37" or bigger tires to drive over rocks for the sake of driving over big rocks. If you want the HD lots of miles, lots of payload (the Bronco's payload and towing capacity is the same as a minivan for crying out loud) that's why Ford will sell you an F250 or F250 Tremor for way less than the cost of a 200 series or a new Grenadier.
It's not that I have anything against Toyota or the Land Cruiser. As close to my ideal vehicle in the world is the 300 series in a 1958 edition trim, but I understand why I will never see that in North America. And, I am thankful for all the other options including the 250 series from both Ford and Toyota. See what I did there...anyway. Back to work.
utherjorge
Observer
No one tells me I do or don't drive a Landcruiser because the general public doesn't care. And the people I know and hang out with that do care know exactly how robust the GX is.
You seem to have completely missed my Jeep point. The headlights on the Jeep did matter...it was the apocalypse at the time. And each successive change has created a new apocalypse and wang-measuring contest that their version of the Jeep is the best one. Those changes include suspension set-ups, trannies, engines, and more. It goes on and on and continues to this day and is deeper than headlights AND is exactly what is going on here.
Your second paragraph...I don't know what you're talking about. Every single LC out there is a platform, a base that allows you to "a la carte" to your heart's content as needed. Guys swap 8.2s into their 470s, change or swap individual pieces on older (and newer) LCs as needed. There is no possible way that Toyota would do some sort of extreme build to create an OEM apocalypse-buggy, despite the more vocal members of this thread using such nonsense to establish that any new rig is simply not up to snuff.
plainjaneFJC
Deplorable
All the back and forth…lol for me I still like the new landcruiser and would be happy to own it.
nickw
Adventurer
Well you don't drive one because the badge says you don't - you drive a GX which is equivalent to a Prado. If that bothers you or anybody else it means the term "Landcruiser" has teeth and it has teeth for a reason, if it didn't have teeth, nobody would be bothered their Prado is not called a Landcruiser....
I didn't miss your Jeep point - I just don't agree with it because Jeeps have historically been built to a very low price point where traditionally LC's, while certainly built to a price point themselves, have had much more in the way of expensive HD parts thrown at them with more emphasis on long term durability. Put a 70's Jeep next to a FJ40, look at the size of the axles, look at the hand-crank option on the front grill, look at how robust steering and suspension components are, engine, and fast forward to today.....40 series rigs are 10x the price of Jeeps and have a reputation even with non gear heads - you don't get there building a Jeep, you get there building something different with a purpose that has character.
You are playing the same game - 'robust' GX.....well if you like it because it's robust and it's reliability then you can appreciate the engineering principles Toyota adheres too which is more stringent, at least historically, on the LC, that concept is not lost on you obviously.
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nickw
Adventurer
Zero interest in driving a 25-30 year old rig that is getting harder and harder to find parts for....but they are $40k for a REASON, no mid 90's Explorer is even on the road anymore let alone selling for more than original price with 100,000 miles on it. Now I may not agree with the reason, but many people do, ever think why? What do having rigs on the road that are 30+ years old do to consumer preferences?
The common consensus what the older cruisers were built to a 500,000 mile std., now who knows what the actual number was, but it was obvious to anybody that has dug into the specs or better yet owned one, they were built with a purpose in mind that didn't exist with any other model.
People lost their mind about IFS, sure, until people starting digging into the specs.....big front diff, large half-shafts, retained the HD rear end, huge tie rods, etc. That is why I am curious about the specs on this and why I personally am interested to know.
Tundra crossover example proves the point, it's a heavish duty 1/2T truck. What if Ford built a mid-size SUV to the same standard as the F150 HD Payload package., 9.75" rear axle, heavy duty frame, bigger axle housing, etc? The modern Expedition gets close but it's a $70k rig, is quite a bit bigger than the LC, IRS, etc and doesn't have a more focused offroad design philosophy.
MFurey
New member
One advantage of the 70-series over our HD trucks, is the dimensions. A lot easier to fit on trails and cities, and less likely to get hung up due to the breakover angle.
Couldn't read all the 176 comments. Dod we already go over how all the media in America say it's a replacement to the 200 series and fail to mention that it's a completely different animal and should be named Land Cruiser Prado?
I hate marketing brainwashing people :-/
Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk
I hate marketing brainwashing people :-/
Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk
nickw
Adventurer
LOL - a time or two
SkiWill
Well-known member
Yes, and I'd say, objectively, the only advantage. I've had full size trucks and I don't particularly like the footprint, but they work in North America and not the rest of the world which is why they dominate NA and are essentially absent the rest of the world. I'd never in a million years drive through small mountain villages overseas in a 3/4 ton Ram, but have done it in NA many times and driven any trail I've cared to drive as well.