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LeoLR
Guest
I dont want to be responsible for this upcoming fight.
So lets keet it in this thread I didnt start. :sombrero:
So lets keet it in this thread I didnt start. :sombrero:
Where did the "what would you do?" post go?
- Thread starter R_Lefebvre
- Start date
Chazz Layne
Administrator
Do they make lowering kits for a D2? :jump:
David Harris
Expedition Leader
****, this is America, we have our kids out on fourwheelers by age six.
Not entirely accurate. As per my previous post, you don't want a heavier car or a stronger car, what you want is a car that spreads the collision force over a larger time period. In other words a car that has a larger crumble zone and is in fact softer and lighter.
Take a big heavy metal truck that is going 60mph. Assume the mass of such truck is twice the mass of a car. The momentum of this truck is twice that of a car. Assume this metal truck with metal bumper hits a barricade and comes to a complete stop. The full momentum(twice that of the car is transferred to the passengers).
Throw a heavy bumper on this truck and you effectively decrease the time frame over which the collision occurs. The moment of impulse increases exponentially. Compared to a car with standard bumpers that crumbles and folds. The momentum of intertia is spread out over a longer period of time, decreasing the force on the passengers.
-Sam
PS smart move deleting the previous thread. If I was a lawyer and your wife hit my client with her big rover and large bumper, I would have searched for your thread and saw that your intent was to have a large truck with metal bumper to harm those your wife hit instead of herself, and would have sued your pants off, and won.
-Sam
-Sam
FourByLand
Expedition Leader
So funny and so true.
David Harris
Expedition Leader
I get your point, but if the weight/momentum of the impacting vehicle is so great that it just moves through the lighter vehicle like butter, wouldn't the people in the impacting vehicle feel less impact force? Think of an 80K semi crashing into a 4.5K Disco. The semi isn't going to feel much of an impact. Hell, trains hardly feel anything when they hit cars on tracks and trains don't have crush zones. On the other hand, the vehicle getting hit might benefit from the crush zone.
Think about what a disco hits. I will take 3 scenarios.
1) pedestrian. You could be in a subcompact car and not get hurt. SUV is overkill. Literally
2) standard car or small suv, depends on speed and direction of impact. Greater chance of having your suv roll
3) hitting a barricade, final momentum is zero as your velocity becomes zero and the colisiion is inelastic(both objects stick), in this case you want to be in the lightest possible vehicle to reduce initial momentum.
Also, in an ideal situation you want every collision to end inelastically(both objects stick as opposed to hitting each other and bouncing off). Elastic conditions fully conserve energy. Inelastic collisions do not transfer energy as the objects deform. We try to minimize energy transferred to passengers by deforming the car(crumple zones)
-Sam
1) pedestrian. You could be in a subcompact car and not get hurt. SUV is overkill. Literally
2) standard car or small suv, depends on speed and direction of impact. Greater chance of having your suv roll
3) hitting a barricade, final momentum is zero as your velocity becomes zero and the colisiion is inelastic(both objects stick), in this case you want to be in the lightest possible vehicle to reduce initial momentum.
Also, in an ideal situation you want every collision to end inelastically(both objects stick as opposed to hitting each other and bouncing off). Elastic conditions fully conserve energy. Inelastic collisions do not transfer energy as the objects deform. We try to minimize energy transferred to passengers by deforming the car(crumple zones)
-Sam
David Harris
Expedition Leader
Against an immovable barrier, OK. But otherwise, Suburban versus Smart car, I'd rather be in the Suburban . . . 
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LeoLR
Guest
Ray Hyland
Expedition Leader
That is a good video BTW.
I am a firefighter in a small community, on a major highway leading to lots of recreation areas. Add in the highway is narrow and winding, and has a lot of snow and ice, and you can see why most of our calls are to the highway, not the community.
I have no numbers to back this up, just what I see and feel, but it seems like people in a big SUV have a feeling of invincibility, they drive hard and fast in all sorts of conditions. The little econo-box drivers (except the very young drivers) seem to take it a bit more easy. Like they have a sense of vulnerability, and drive accordingly.
Again, I have absolutely nothing to back those statements up.
Ray
I am a firefighter in a small community, on a major highway leading to lots of recreation areas. Add in the highway is narrow and winding, and has a lot of snow and ice, and you can see why most of our calls are to the highway, not the community.
I have no numbers to back this up, just what I see and feel, but it seems like people in a big SUV have a feeling of invincibility, they drive hard and fast in all sorts of conditions. The little econo-box drivers (except the very young drivers) seem to take it a bit more easy. Like they have a sense of vulnerability, and drive accordingly.
Again, I have absolutely nothing to back those statements up.
Ray
David Harris
Expedition Leader
Yeah. I grew up in the Rockies, in Crested Butte, Colorado. It was funny how the vehicles in the ditch always seemed to be 4x4's . . . :ylsmoke:
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
There's ALWAYS something bigger and stronger than your truck.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2pgiw1aTlQ"]YouTube - Truck crash[/ame]
I so sorry for your kids.
My son got a Suzuki JR-50 on his 3rd birthday. But I will never let him drive an adult ATV until he's old enough.
Don't make a strawman. We're not talking about Smart cars. I know I suggested something more realistic like a Subaru Legacy.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
Big car vs little car.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIKu1UDoa6s"]YouTube - Renault Espace vs. Land Rover Discovery crash test[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIKu1UDoa6s"]YouTube - Renault Espace vs. Land Rover Discovery crash test[/ame]
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
It's not really even about big vs. small. That Espace is probably only 500lbs lighter than the Disco. If that. The real issue here is about old vs. new. For all intents and purposes, a 2004 D2's crash performance was engineered in 1985. Before we really knew anything. Crash engineering has come SO far just in the past 10 years it's staggering. I mean, the NHTSA's star rating is now completely irrelevant, because every car in the past 5-10 years has gotten 5 stars. That wasn't the case in 1985. Even the IIHS's much tougher frontal offset has run out of top end, every car now rates Good on frontal impacts, so then they started focusing on side impacts, now everything is Good, so they're working on roof crush now.
This is about old vs. new.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrXViFfMGk"]YouTube - Crash test: 1959 Chevy Bel Air[/ame]
This is about old vs. new.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrXViFfMGk"]YouTube - Crash test: 1959 Chevy Bel Air[/ame]