Why do folks say, "Jeeps aren't expedition vehicles?"

[SavageSunJeep]

i think the "jeep is not a expedition rig" idea is Bullpucky....


my jeep LJ has taken my family there and back again enough times for me to trust it. granted the longest trip was only a week, I know that my rig could hold its own against FJ's, series and defender rovers( and i love those rigs too.)

i have no doubt that an fj40, a series III and my LJ would be bosum buddies on a trans-sierra or "up to alaska" trip.

My jeep unlimited is a direct evolution from the Jeep that started it all, and while i'm partial to my 04 unlimited, due to its lack of electric gismo's, comfy/quiet interior, and stout, simple drivetrain, I do think toyota and rover took the idea of the original jeep and improved on it, each in their own way.

in my opinion, an expo rig is simply built, easy to work on and able to adapt to any environment with tastful, well planned mods.

suzuki's, defenders, series I, II, III's, wranglers, early bronco's and scouts are VERY well suited to expo work....if you need more than can fit in these vehicles, i'd bet you haven't really travelled much and don't realize how little is needed in the "real world" of travel.

in north america, help is not usually very far off, and if you can work on your jeep, fixes can be rudimentary with what is available at the time. food can be dried, canned or vacuum packed to save on size, and with the proper gear, clothing can be kept to minimum. Water and fuel are the biggest "probem to be solved" with smaller rigs, but aux or larger than stock fuel tanks, and solid jerry can mounts abound for these rigs(keeping the rig as streamlined as possible helps, too!). Take a walk around REI and you'll see that many advances have been made in camp equipment to allow adventurers using even smaller vehicles of travel (i.e. kayaks, bikes, feet,etc) the ability to carry the essentials easily. there should be no reason save for a small budget/old bulky gear, that you need more room for stuff than a SWB rig can carry.

the bigger rigs can carry more, but heavy rigs tend to fail rather catastrophically and cost way to much $$$ for my type of budget.

i'd rather keep my rig small and nimble, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

Brian that is called a BINGO! And your attitude fits in with the rest of the Jeepers I know...FJ's, Defenders, Zuks, come on down there is room on the trail for all of us and WE will all have a good time.

Now I know this most likely does not fit into the true expedition catagory, but my wife and I went on our honeymoon in my Jeep TJ, we were gone for nearly 3 months, her, I and our dog, traveling the SW from Tx west to Ca N to Utah and Co. Yea we spent most nights in a motel and ate at resturants but still had to carry everything in that Jeep.

Then we toured for 4 months she, dog and I from Tx to FL up to Pa over to IL and down to Tx in our Corvette.

Learn to pack, simple as that.

Whether you drive a FJ, Defender or Jeep if you cannot think outside the box then the simplest breakdown will have you calling for a wrecker.

Field Fix on a critical component: http://www.savagesun4x4.com/enter/field_fixes/track_bar.html

 

[kcowyo]

Us Jeep guys always welcome the FJ, Defender and others into our fold, but the FJ and Defender crowd always seems to have the same o, same o holier than thou attitude of superiority.

Well that's a very general statement and not a very nice one at that. Accurate in your experiences maybe yes, but a blanket statement like that could be blown out of the water by the other side as well.

I mean, whose slogan is, "It's a Jeep thing. You wouldn't understand." Doesn't that sound like an 'attitude of superiority'?

When I'm running with my Jeep owning friends, I get a ton of crap for rolling in a Toyota. When rolling with my Toyota owning friends, we'll hammer the one guy who brought a Jeep. It's just boys being boys. There is no reason to get your feelings hurt by some ribbing from friends.

They are all just big hunks of metal and only as capable as the person behind the wheel. I've owned a Jeep and Toyotas and taken them on several multi-week long trips. Both brands exceeded my expectations and both are prime candidates for the long haul in educated and experienced hands.

Let the debate continue but I will remind everyone here whose blood pressure is rising, we are all here to share and learn. Any chest beating regarding 'mine is better than yours', will be tightly moderated per the forum guidelines.


:lurk:

 

[Haggis]

This thread reminds me of the good ole days of my muscle car youth and it seems to carring on into the expo universe. Some one was always getting ragged on about what they drove. If you were a Chevy guy, Fords where Found On the Road Dead. Ford guys claimed bowties where for wimps. And with Chrysler guys it was Mopar or no Car. Then there where guys like me who showed up in our Buicks, AMCs and Studes and didn't get no respect at all. That is until you blew the others doors off, and then you were accused of cheating. To many people find their identity with what they drive and it affects their opions of other makes. Sometimes it a valid point you might not want to admit or it's a bunch of horse puckey from some one who needs to get a more balanced life. Anyways in the long run it don't matter at all. If you're happy and your vehicle gets you where you want to go, then all is right in the world. So enough quibbling, spend some more time in your Jeep, 'yota, or I guess if your desperate, a Nissan ( Sorry couldn't resist) and all will be well in the world.:safari-rig:

 

[bigredpigdriver]

I hate to say it but since Im working on my 5th Jeep and the wife is on her 2nd, I would say it more of a comfort thing and plus I have a garage full of Jeep parts. Now would I own a new FJ or "Taco" sure, I own a one before and I feel Toys are great vehicles. I have Nissan now as DD. I drove Land Rover when I was living in england. I drove the H1 when they first came into military. The big question I get asked all the time is "Which one was the best?" I always time the samething, "The one thats running". Product loyalty is nice, but dont crazy like a NASCAR fan for his driver Now that I started a whole new subjet to get flamed, I'll be in the bar.

 

[Green96D1]

I'm a Land Rover guy so please be nice (lol) From what I've seen I live in the Bay Area Northern California. There are lots Jeeps TJ,XJ, you name it. I think jeeps can make great expedtion platforms. There is certainly alot of vendors and accessories to accomodate the vehicles. However of the Jeeps that I have seen most have like 6" lifts with usually 35's and up Swampers,Krawlers,Baja Claws tires. As mentioned earlier I think the marketing is more towards the Rock Crawling than expedition wheeling. Hence why they name a Wrangler the "rubicon" or the Term "Trail Rated" both which to most would think of hardcore crawling trails rather than expedition trails. Not to mention most 4wheeldrive magazines and books features the trucks on Hardcore trails with sweet buildups. The same can be said with Land Rover but with the situation reveresed. Most Land Rovers are built with long travel and expedition style wheeling not rock crawling although we are starting to get into that now. I love expedition builds and trails but I'm a rock crawler and the way I'm building my Land Rover will go more towards that form of wheeling. So I think it's just how the brands are marketed and what the owners want to do with their vehicles.

 

[luangwablondes]

Jeep- an expedition vehicle- on what planet?

All that I can say about Jeep is, the first modification the American Embassy crowd did with the Cherokees they shipped over from the states was to reinforce the chassis. Seems they couldn't hold up to the task in Zambia.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

I'm a Land Rover guy so please be nice (lol) From what I've seen I live in the Bay Area Northern California. There are lots Jeeps TJ,XJ, you name it.
However of the Jeeps that I have seen most have like 6" lifts with usually 35's and up Swampers,Krawlers,Baja Claws tires.

Straight up, I do not know of a real Jeep guy that thinks less of FJs or Defenders, Land Rovers, FACT is those are good rigs. Never owned one but hey you cannot own everything.

As far as the Rubicon goes I would put that into the 'expedition' catagory. Till I hear a better definition of 'expedition' I will stay with any overnight off pavement trip??????????

Yes, you are right on the 6 in lift stuff but at the same time having the lift (albeit NOT 6 inch) is of great benefit for expedition travel. So are the 37" shoes my Jeep wears. In fact there are several things that are good for expedition travel: My High Pinion Dana 60's front and rear with ARB lockers, 3 in lift and 37" BFG KM2 tires. Yes I do some rock crawling and I built my jeep for rock crawling, but missed the adventure of long trips.

So don't rule out your LR because it is a rock crawler, it like you can wear two hats...

 

[SavageSunJeep]

All that I can say about Jeep is, the first modification the American Embassy crowd did with the Cherokees they shipped over from the states was to reinforce the chassis. Seems they couldn't hold up to the task in Zambia.

BONK, WRONG answer, you do not get to pick a door or spin the cash wheel.

Ok, just pullin on you some;;;

The Cherokees ain't got no chassis:wings: its a UNIBODY and the American Embassy like most off roaders have to...REINFORCE the chassis, can't say that I blame them, I would.

 

[Zeero]

All that I can say about Jeep is, the first modification the American Embassy crowd did with the Cherokees they shipped over from the states was to reinforce the chassis. Seems they couldn't hold up to the task in Zambia.

Yeeaahhh.....wrong answer....Unibodies....

Body on frame is the current Rubicon Wrangler....very strong, and has been tested by us thorughly to ensure that.

 

[luangwablondes]

No need to reinforce a stock landy or cruiser. Thats what makes these vehicles great expedition vehicles. KISS. Just put your gear in and go. And yes, I do make a few modifications after the 1st couple landys I had. Mostly for my comfort level, but significately just a bigger diesel-no turbo- because I need that extra umfff at times, and an extra fuel tank 'cause I go remote and off the map often. Prefer a stock vehicle so parts are more readily available, bush mechanics are familiar with the beasts if there is trouble, and a few dead landys are usually around to 'borrow' from(in Africa). Can't say that about a jeep that needs modifications to go bundu bashing in Africa. What you going to do, take 2 jeeps, one for spares?

Not meant to bash Jeeps. Its just makes good sense when you put all in perspective. IMHO. :safari-rig:

 

[Green96D1]

Straight up, I do not know of a real Jeep guy that thinks less of FJs or Defenders, Land Rovers, FACT is those are good rigs. Never owned one but hey you cannot own everything.

As far as the Rubicon goes I would put that into the 'expedition' catagory. Till I hear a better definition of 'expedition' I will stay with any overnight off pavement trip??????????

Yes, you are right on the 6 in lift stuff but at the same time having the lift (albeit NOT 6 inch) is of great benefit for expedition travel. So are the 37" shoes my Jeep wears. In fact there are several things that are good for expedition travel: My High Pinion Dana 60's front and rear with ARB lockers, 3 in lift and 37" BFG KM2 tires. Yes I do some rock crawling and I built my jeep for rock crawling, but missed the adventure of long trips.

So don't rule out your LR because it is a rock crawler, it like you can wear two hats...

I agree with you.:victory:

 

[SavageSunJeep]

No need to reinforce a stock landy or cruiser. Thats what makes these vehicles great expedition vehicles. KISS. Just put your gear in and go. And yes, I do make a few modifications after the 1st couple landys I had. Mostly for my comfort level, but significately just a bigger diesel-no turbo- because I need that extra umfff at times, and an extra fuel tank 'cause I go remote and off the map often. Prefer a stock vehicle so parts are more readily available, bush mechanics are familiar with the beasts if there is trouble, and a few dead landys are usually around to 'borrow' from(in Africa). Can't say that about a jeep that needs modifications to go bundu bashing in Africa. What you going to do, take 2 jeeps, one for spares?

Not meant to bash Jeeps. Its just makes good sense when you put all in perspective. IMHO. :safari-rig:

Granted there aren't any Jeeps dead laying around in Afrika, but by the flip side of the coin we can say the same thing over here.

That said, I do not know what a 'landy' is, I am familiar with FJ's and Defenders along with a smattering of Toy Landcrusiers and Zuks.

Like you its a KISS thing and therein is where the Jeep shines, simple and no matter what year the year of your Jeep EVERY PART is still available for it. There is little difference between Jeeps over the years, in fact we basicaly have had the CJ, YJ, TJ and now for '07 and beyond the JK. Jeep doesn't change much, easy to work on and maintain along with the ability to take one hellava beating and keep ticking.

Not sure where you are located, but if I get out your way maybe we can bust some trails together...

 

[Bongo Boy]

Since Kurt was unable to, perhaps you can ENLIGHTEN us as to why not and don't give the weak 'logistics tail' arguement either.

Don't know what you mean by 'why not' or what you're referring to. Pretty sure enlightenment isn't on your list of things to do, either, but that's okay, it's not on mine either.

In any case, my opinion is that a general statement that a vehicle has seen extensive military service in a wide variety of conditions doesn't necessarily imply it's a great expeditionary vehicle. That's my opinion--you may disagree--no problem.

One could cite a lot of examples of how the military heritage of vehicle qualifies it for expedition. Specific or general requirements the vehicle was built to meet, or specific accomplishments of the vehicle in service--both would would provide ample evidence the jeep has expeditionary potential.

What I think Kurt said was (and he said it twice): there's no point in concerning yourself what anyone thinks or says about the vehicle you've chosen to run--build it and run it. I believe he also said (the same thing I'm saying): general statements about the legendary pre-50s military jeep may not have much relevance to the use of a current-day jeep for expedition. My comment was, this is a reasonable statement.

If you disagree, that's fine. At no time did I ever make any statement about the suitability of the jeep for expedition, either positive or negative.

I hardly think my logistics argument was weak...my OPINION is that the jeep's utility during its outstanding military service was only possible because of the extraordinary logistics capability of the US military. Furthermore, even in spite of the fact that I have hardly a clue as to what an 'expedition' is, I'd have to say an expeditionary adventure is largely about logistics. The two sorts of logistics here--that of a light, agile reconnaisance vehicle and taxi, and that of a self-sustained, extended excursion life-support system--I'm thinking are quite different. Again, since it's not been obvious, I'm not making any judgement about any vehicle at all...I'm expressing the opinion that the military service of the jeep doesn't automatically mean it's obviously a great expeditionary platform.

Finally, if you'd like to have a gentlemanly argument about something, go for it. If you'd like to tell me what arguments I can or cannot use, Edit: Please don't I can have a pointless, logic-free argument with my spouse if I'm looking for something that has emotion as its only basis.

 

[Desertdude]

Lets keep it friendly here folks...

 

[mike h]

That said, I do not know what a 'landy' is, I am familiar with FJ's and Defenders along with a smattering of Toy Landcrusiers and Zuks.

a landy refers to any Land Rover vehicle