Why do folks say, "Jeeps aren't expedition vehicles?"

[SavageSunJeep]

To cite the military service history of the jeep as evidence of its expeditionary suitability is about as far a stretch of logic as I can imagine.

Bongo, I keep hearing this over and over or words to that effect.

1) I want to know why the Jeep is not a suitable platform for this thing called expedion travel. I keep hearing its not, but just not hearing any why's.

2) NEVER said military use qualifies it because of military use. I stated that the Jeep had as much time under the stars if not more time than anything out there. Suddendly this brought out an amazing amout of hate for Jeeps as if the JEEP is nothing but a 3 rate rig unsuitable for anything other than a mail carrier. Then tell us what rig is sutiable for expedition travel since its not the Jeep.

3) I will not address the military other than in my statement that the Jeep has seen its day under the stars...I am a retired military officer and spent some time as a logistics officer. Its clear from the negative military comments that a lack of understanding is there, so no need to discuss it.

In short: why not and what fits the requirement...:camping:

 

[SavageSunJeep]

Lets keep it friendly here folks...

As much as we Jeep folks would like to it is a constant struggle: Military Jeeps do not count for anything, time in the woods by military doesn't count, everything is an incredible stretch of logic an imagination.

Jeeps are bad and everything else is good. But no one will tell us what 'everything' else is, why Jeeps are bad, poor and if it wasn't for the log-tail they would be lucky to even be running.

If we ask a question we are told we must have a bad attitude and won't listen to the answer etc etc etc.

We do and always have invited other rigs to come with us but the favor is rarely exchanged.

Heck, I offer to drive up to the business and buy stuff but never heard a 'come on down'.

We have no axe to grind with FJs, Defenders, 'Landy's' etc, they are good and great rigs.

Yep, there are some folks on here that have an attitude problem and it ain't us Jeepers.




I see you live in Sedona, I bet you know Nena of the Jeep school, she is a great friend of mine. In fact I led her on a trail in Moab a few weeks back. She is good and smart folks.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...1) I want to know why the Jeep is not a suitable platform for this thing called expedion travel. I keep hearing its not, but just not hearing any why's.

Address those commenter's directly... reading through this thread I haven't seen any that blatantly say just that. I think you are fixated on hearing what you want to hear.

...2) NEVER said military use qualifies it because of military use. I stated that the Jeep had as much time under the stars if not more time than anything out there. Suddendly this brought out an amazing amout of hate for Jeeps as if the JEEP is nothing but a 3 rate rig unsuitable for anything other than a mail carrier.

Which forum did this discussion happen on??? Bongo and I merely disputed your "most time in the outback" comment, nowhere did it "suddenly bring out an amazing hate for Jeeps". In fact in both my comment threads I spoke the opposite! Your reading things that weren't written. And Bongo drives a Jeep, can't speak for him but I can only assume he doesn't have an amazing amount of hate for it.

...Its clear from the negative military comments that a lack of understanding is there, so no need to discuss it.

Don't be such a martyr. There wasn't negative military comments... there were comments by Bongo and I stating that we think your logic is faulty in regards to your boisterous claim. Why you think this has "brought out an amazing amount of hate for Jeeps" I do not know?

..In short: why not and what fits the requirement...:camping:

That we can agree on. :beer:

FWIW, despite my personal love for Toyota's, I honestly would have to say the Rover has the most time in the outback... not only military use, but worldwide expy use for the last 60 years. While the Jeep obviously saw the most use in the 40's & 50's on a worldwide scale, the Rover has continued to do so globally while Jeep has become an American icon with limited use and export.

 

[mike h]

Suddendly this brought out an amazing amout of hate for Jeeps

unfortunately, like most prejudiced opinions, Jeeps just seem to have an "I hate Jeep" following as much as they have a loyal "It's a Jeep Thing..." following. It's unfortunate people bash any one brand over another - I dunno what that is about, but it seems to prevalent human nature across a variety of topics. It's vehicular racism.

IMHO, one has to be pretty opinionated to claim a Rubicon isn't a world-class capable expo platform. For that matter, virtually everything Jeep has produced is a capable expo platform - who doesn't love a CJ5 with a V8? As is everything from Land Rover, any era Land Cruiser, and a host of American trucks past and present.

Most of us develop a strong attachment to our trucks, yet if money wasn't an issue this board would be more than happy to have "one of each" in the garage(s).

But it is simple bigotry. I took my '96 Land Cruiser 80 Series to a local mechanic in northern Maine and he wouldn't work on it because it "was foreign, and they do things backwards." I was a little shocked, and before I could reply, he continued "them jap-junk rigs aren't good for nuthin, and I won't touch 'em." So be it.

Another shop admitted they had never even seen a Land Cruiser, but once it was on the lift they were very impressed with the undercarriage and suspension. Now they actually get excited when I bring it in.

But certainly, in rural parts of the US, and others - opinions run deep.

When I had my Nissan Pathfinder, I cautiously made my way down a rock-strewn, muddy, rutted half-mile track to find a remote canoe launch... when I got there, a ratty Subaru was stashed in the trees, stuffed with camping gear...

any vehicle can be an expo vehicle - it's a mindset as much as a mechanical contraption.

live and let live, drive what you like.

mike

 

[cruiseroutfit]

As much as we Jeep folks would like to it is a constant struggle: Military Jeeps do not count for anything, time in the woods by military doesn't count, everything is an incredible stretch of logic an imagination.

Playing the bit of the martyr a bit perhaps? REREAD THE THREAD and show me where anyone said their military use "doesn't count". We just simple argued it isn't a sample of their use for the last 60 years. Sure it counts... Jeeps crawled all over the world in nasty terrains charing way for the US led victory. I never said, implied or assumed otherwise.

Jeeps are bad and everything else is good. But no one will tell us what 'everything' else is, why Jeeps are bad, poor and if it wasn't for the log-tail they would be lucky to even be running.

If we ask a question we are told we must have a bad attitude and won't listen to the answer etc etc etc.

We do and always have invited other rigs to come with us but the favor is rarely exchanged.

Heck, I offer to drive up to the business and buy stuff but never heard a 'come on down'.

We have no axe to grind with FJs, Defenders, 'Landy's' etc, they are good and great rigs.

Yep, there are some folks on here that have an attitude problem and it ain't us Jeepers....

Mouse in pocket again :xxrotflma Who is the "we" and "us" you are always referring to? The only one consistely playing the martyr in this thread is you. People tease Toyotas, and if I actuallly cared, they would probably continue to do so And the two that seem to be arguing the most with you (Bongo and I) don't have any issue with the Jeep... as I've stated over and over again. What are you reading that I am not??

Honestly, this question is for other jeepers BTW... Do you see the same "us" versus "you" power struggle???

I just don't see it, not on other forums, and surely not on ExpeditionPortal. The founder and defacto expert on expedition related travels (Scott B.) started in a Jeep and just sold his Taco for a Jeep... Do you think we are all cursing his name and mocking he decision? I just don't see it??

For the record, my comments in this thread re: Jeeps:

"Jeeps can be great rigs, build them right and they can be extremely reliable. I'm for one thankful we have multiple platforms to choose from. Just to day I was looking at a customers rig that is getting Jeep Rubicon axles underneath his turbo-diesel Mitsubishi mini-truck"

"I've got alot of respect for Jeeps, spent countless hours on the trails with them. As with any vehicle they are only as good as their owners desire to make them. Their latest JK offerings have really been a home-run IMO, a really neat base for any style of build IMO."

"I've got plenty of freinds and family to ask, and I have no doubt they adore and cherish the Jeep as a great vehicle. I too thing the WWII era Jeeps are amazing beasts, simple, utilitarian, proven."

A lot of hate your military reference "suddenly brought out"

 

[JeepN95YJ]

To post or not to post?.......

As you can tell my my Log In, I'm a "Jeep guy".

Probably don't know that before that I was a "Samurai guy", before that I was a "dirt bike/atv guy". I've gotten a ton of enjoyment from each. I'll freely admit there are some differences to the personalities of the owners of each. They all had "some" prejudices and presuppositions. That said, they were all pretty much the same too.

I really don't understand how anyone on this forum (or any forum for that matter)can get worked up about "what's best" or "what's not." EVERY vehicle has strengths and weaknesses. Neither do I understand folks who get their feelings hurt because of some perceived wrongful or hurtful comment about their particular brand of vehicle. I've seen nothing in this thread to support anyone in their argument that Jeeps are not getting a fair deal or are not paid their proper respect.

GET OVER YOURSELF! (this is the point where I had trouble deciding wether to post or skip this thread) Anyone who truly believes their particular vehicle or make is the end all/be all of four wheel driving, or even a particular segment of it, should consider seeking professional help in working through their delusions

 

[Root Moose]

any vehicle can be an expo vehicle - it's a mindset as much as a mechanical contraption.

Yay! Someone gets it!

 

[astateofmike]

So I have a Rover, always wanted one. And I am in a Rover club, with Rover owners and have a lot of Rover friends.

My brother from another mother has a 80's Jeep.

My bro in law has an old Willy's pickup, my other bro in law a nice lifted 69 3 door Suburban.

I would like an older Series vehicle. I would LOVE to find parts as easily here in the States as for a Jeep.

I'll run Rover trips with my club, I'll run any trip with any rigs as long as I get invited along.

My best day wheeling is any day, with anyone, is a day as long as we are having fun. I once heard that some statistic like 75% of the "native' worlds first contact with western culture was by a Land Rover. A comment about it's travel ability? Yes, maybe. An indication of who was exploring the world, for sure.

I once was told that the LR originally was made because the maker had a Jeep in England and was worried (ironic to me now) about getting parts. This was the story I remember. So really, Jeep/Land Rover/Toyota etc...

Have 4 wheels, need dirt. Don't let the politicians take the right to drive on a dirt road from sea to shining sea away from us. Any of us.

If you drive it, and it goes as far as you want, it is an expedition vehicle for you. Simple as that.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

Most of us develop a strong attachment to our trucks, yet if money wasn't an issue this board would be more than happy to have "one of each" in the garage(s).

mike

Ummm yea, if my wife would allow me I guess I would be the 'Jay Leno' of the off road crowd. Speaking of which, check this out: http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/your_garage/cars/8287.shtml

As one can tell from the title of this thread 'Why do folks say, "Jeeps aren't expedition vehicles?"' there is a lot of feelings on this subject and its apparent that Jeep owners have felt and experienced the 'snobbery' of non-Jeep owners. You can look at their litany of why the Jeep is not and expedition rig, I have heard it here and in many places on many forums for many years. Why???????? who knows.

I love my Jeeps and after driving them for over 40 years I still love them. But I would still love to have an FJ and a Defender, Camel Trophy model in my garage...I have suggested the Defender for our garage at our 'summer' place in England but again I have to do battle with my English wife and she perfers something different, some kind of a German thing:yikes:

 

[The Swiss]

To post or not to post?.......

As you can tell my my Log In, I'm a "Jeep guy".

Probably don't know that before that I was a "Samurai guy", before that I was a "dirt bike/atv guy". ...

Yep, to post or not to post. I am in a similar situation. Over the years, I had 3 Land Rovers, 1 Samurai, two Toyotas and I am now on my third Jeep. Every vehicle had stuff I liked and other things I liked less. I have to say, the JK unlimited I am currently driving has a lot of the aspects of my previous vehicles that I liked combined with very few that I don't like. For me, it is perfect. My wife does not like the JK; she gives me every day a hard time that I got rid of the Commander; the only thing she enjoys about the JK is the looks she gets

But back to the original question of this thread, if a Jeep is a good expedition vehicle or not:

One of the problems is that "Expedition" means for everybody something different. Some people call their weekend trip to Moab an expedition; for others, it's a multi week trip down Baja. Some people insist in sleeping in the vehicle; others on and again others besides the vehicle. Obviously the expectation to what a expidition vehicle has to be able to accomplish is very different. For me, an expedition always used to be a travel to a remote area in this world with a scientific purpose. I never rated my trips as expeditions as they were for my enjoyment only, not scientific what so ever.

My first motorized vehicle was a Vespa Scooter. I had a front and a rear cargo carrier. I was a student with lot's of time and no money, I loaded my tent and sleeping bag and took off exploring the alps and the neighboring countries, mainly Italy, France whenever I had a couple days off. Right now, my job keeps me extremely busy. In the time I had my Tacome, I just took it once on a camping trip with the Scouts. Looking at this, I think my Vespa Scooter was more of an expedition vehicle than my Tacoma

As Mike H said very correctly; any vehicle can be an expo vehicle - it's a mindset as much as a mechanical contraption.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

One of the problems is that "Expedition" means for everybody something different.

True and maybe its because we are not sure what 'Expedition' really means, that said, lets look at some defintions:

* A journey undertaken by a group of people with a definite objective: an expedition against the enemy stronghold; a scientific expedition to the South Pole.

* Expedition a body of persons, or a fleet, sent out for a specific purpose, 1693; an expeditionary force.

* expedition - a military campaign designed to achieve a specific objective in a foreign country

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/expedition

There were some others but these seem to be the key ones. Of course many of them pretain to the military and I have it on good authority that military does not do expeditions and ever if they did it would not count and what would a military guy know!

So maybe for our purposes: Expedition: Any over night journey that is off pavement and a camp was established for the overnight stay.

I am open to any definition that is better.

But if we use that then I would guess that any vehicle that serves your purpose to get there and back is an expedition vehicle???????????????

 

[madizell]

Personally, I don't think an overnight ride constitutes expedition travel, but maybe it is just me. We have spent many an overnight on the trail, planned or otherwise, but they were essentially just day trips. I think expedition driving involves more prolonged reliance on self and vehicle than an overnight camp out, whether or not planned, on a trail or in an area that we already know. When you get to the point of having to decide 'how many' rolls of TP you have to carry to get by on a given trip, you are passing from trail riding into exploration or expedition planning.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

Personally, I don't think an overnight ride constitutes expedition travel, but maybe it is just me. We have spent many an overnight on the trail, planned or otherwise, but they were essentially just day trips. I think expedition driving involves more prolonged reliance on self and vehicle than an overnight camp out, whether or not planned, on a trail or in an area that we already know. When you get to the point of having to decide 'how many' rolls of TP you have to carry to get by on a given trip, you are passing from trail riding into exploration or expedition planning.

Well I did say 'in which a camp was established'.

While I don't dispute what you are saying it seems very difficult to come up with 'X' numer of days.

I would think that an unplanned overnight stay does not meet the criteria. But if you have a 2 day trip and 1 planned overnight stay that would seem to qualify. Like you I too am curious to see if there is a 'street' def?

 

[mcm4090]

Ummm yea, if my wife would allow me I guess I would be the 'Jay Leno' of the off road crowd. Speaking of which, check this out: http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/your_garage/cars/8287.shtml

As one can tell from the title of this thread 'Why do folks say, "Jeeps aren't expedition vehicles?"' there is a lot of feelings on this subject and its apparent that Jeep owners have felt and experienced the 'snobbery' of non-Jeep owners. You can look at their litany of why the Jeep is not and expedition rig, I have heard it here and in many places on many forums for many years. Why???????? who knows.

OMG!! You got to be kidding right? I think call non-Jeep owners the snob is like pot calling kettle black.
I don't see the 'snobbery.' A question was asked and people answer it.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

OMG!! You got to be kidding right? I think call non-Jeep owners the snob is like pot calling kettle black.
I don't see the 'snobbery.' A question was asked and people answer it.

Pot calling the kettle black, Zackly where do you get that?????

I wasn't calling anyone by name a snob!! Or did you miss that? Read what said: 'I have heard it here and in many places on many forums for many years.'

You have not read on here where I have poor mouthed any ones ride, reguardless of orgin and in fact I praise them or maybe you didn't read where I said I too would have a garage full of all kinds off road rigs.

You need to read all of it and not pick and chose which words you choose to attack:camping: