Why do folks say, "Jeeps aren't expedition vehicles?"

[Tanto]

Who cares. Just go out and do it!

Drive your Jeep, there are plenty of Jeep Jamborees and fellas around that will help teach you the ropes so you can do your own. If you want to do your own there are plenty of guys posting in completed Expedition section that regularly do overland expeditions in their Jeeps. Just because person has it in their brain that a Jeep isn't a "real expo-vehicle" doesn't mean it isn't. Prove them wrong, it is more fun to surprise close minded people than it is to argue with them.

 

[madizell]

Maybe we have all passed beyond the original question, which had to do with why some on this forum think Jeep is not a basis for an expedition vehicle. First, I don't necessarily buy into the assumption that it is an accurate representation of the forum vis a vis Jeeps.

More importantly, I think expedition as used herein is "vehicle based exploration." I don't see in that explanation a description of the type of vehicle or the capabilities of a vehicle to qualify for exploration. If you get into a motor vehicle and go exploring, you are by broad definition "expeditioning." Still, I believe that as generally used by those on the forum who actually do this (I tend not to anymore because of the pain involved) there may be an undefined time reference that might not cover the odd few hours in a vehicle.

Then again, maybe not. Just because I don't see a day trip or an overnighter as "exploration" doesn't mean I am right. Saturday, the wife and I loaded the dogs and two coolers, one roll of TP and one roll of paper towel, necessary meds for one day, jackets and sundries, two cell phones and one GPS, two forms of personal defense, two travel guides and a map, and traveled from Prescott over to the Rim Road on the Mogollon Rim (historical General Crook Trail), drove the entire length, stopped and had snacks, lunch, took in the view points, enjoyed the day, returned through Payson, which we had never seen before, had dinner in Cottonwood then went through Jerome over the mountains past Mingus Mountain, and made it back about 10:30 at night. Not a real challenge by any means, but we were out in the country some, covered 252 miles, and had a good time. Question is, were we in "expedition mode" if we covered back country we had never seen before but were never "off-road"? Could be. Which of our vehicles we took for this venture would not change the experience much. Even a Jeep could have done this one. Either one of mine would have made the trip, but not with three dogs.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

covered 252 miles, and had a good time. Question is, were we in "expedition mode" if we covered back country we had never seen before but were never "off-road"? Could be. Which of our vehicles we took for this venture would not change the experience much. Even a Jeep could have done this one. Either one of mine would have made the trip, but not with three dogs.

Again another def that is broad based and may well fit the bill as good as any def out there.

You traveled thru unkown space, you pre-planned, you carried gear and supplies, sounds like an expedition to me.

MAYBE the question is NOT what is an expedition, but what is NOT!

Drive to work
Trip to the mall
Going out to eat
Picking up your dry cleaning
Going over at Ziggy Belcher's house

So why isn't a Jeep a full blown qualified Expedition rig? Dunno albeit I have and its clear others have been told its not. Why not, dunno, got no earthly idea. All I can say is that in 40+ years of driving Jeeps they have not let me down and I have driven them globaly in all kinds of terrain, weather, on road, off road. I have used a P38 and a book of matches to remove the distrubitor and set the points, jammed a stick of green wood into a leak on the radiator, used a piece of wire from my wiring harness to hold my track bar in place. http://www.savagesun4x4.com/enter/field_fixes/track_bar.html

And the stories are countless from all Jeep owners, new or old and new or old Jeeps.

Like most of you, I am not sure what criteria we may be missing, as no one will tell us.:box: whats inside the box?????????????

 

[MuddyMudskipper]

:smilies27 :exclaim:

 

[Bongo Boy]

I don't understand when forum members write that the expedition industry has forgotten Wranglers as expedition vehicles.

One approach to getting a better understanding would be to ask the forum members who have specifically made the assertion you're referring to. IOW, when you see such a comment, ask the person why they feel that way.

If someone has made an assertion about 'the expedition industry' not providing much stuff for Jeep application, then maybe there's a very specific definition the person is using for that industry. It might be that these people making the comments, whoever they are, would look through a Quadratec catalog, for example, and not see anything 'expeditionary', I don't know.

Also, even if one assumed, for sake of argument, that the expedition industry has chosen not to produce jeep-specific products, someone who cites that fact could be doing so to a) support the view that jeeps aren't well suited to expedition, or b) express disappointment with the industry's decision.

Again, I think if you want an answer to your subject question, you may have to find someone who actually makes that claim, and ask him/her why they feel that way. So far in this thread, it doesn't look like anyone here has ever heard anyone make that claim--or at least if they have heard it made, they haven't asked why.

As an aside...

What might be useful info to have would be a compilation what what makes a vehicle well-suited for expedition. This would be a collection of the opinions of folks who spend much of their time doing what we might all generally agree is expedition, and would be as non-brand specific as possible, but as feature-specific or characteristic-specific as possible. This could range from criteria such as cargo capacity, fuel capacity and fuel type, gross vehcile weight, etc., to things more sophisticiated such as maximum weight of the tools needed to fix 80% of most likely problems or the average number of parts suppliers for the vehicle in the countries I'm 'expeditioning' in.

Stuff like this may be subjective, but it lets you rate various vehicles--YOUR ratings, based on relative importance of the criteria and relative merit you feel each vehicle has against each. One could also use these criteria to argue all day long with someone about which vehicles are or are not great expo platforms...all to no purpose, I'm sure.

 

[upcruiser]

Man, this thread is a monster. My 2 cents is its not the vehicle, but the adventure that you use it for that makes it an expedition or not. Whether it be VW Bus, a CJ5, or anything else, its about the adventure. To say that a Jeep can't do that is a tad ridiculous. Heck, Scott Brady's vehicle of choice for his South American expedition is a Rubicon Unlimited (slightly modified :ylsmoke: ). That's from someone who tests and evaluates 4wd's for a living. For the price of the Earthroamer, he could have chosen quite a number of options.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Yep, to post or not to post. I am in a similar situation. Over the years, I had 3 Land Rovers, 1 Samurai, two Toyotas and I am now on my third Jeep. Every vehicle had stuff I liked and other things I liked less. I have to say, the JK unlimited I am currently driving has a lot of the aspects of my previous vehicles that I liked combined with very few that I don't like. For me, it is perfect. My wife does not like the JK; she gives me every day a hard time that I got rid of the Commander; the only thing she enjoys about the JK is the looks she gets

But back to the original question of this thread, if a Jeep is a good expedition vehicle or not:

One of the problems is that "Expedition" means for everybody something different. Some people call their weekend trip to Moab an expedition; for others, it's a multi week trip down Baja. Some people insist in sleeping in the vehicle; others on and again others besides the vehicle. Obviously the expectation to what a expidition vehicle has to be able to accomplish is very different. For me, an expedition always used to be a travel to a remote area in this world with a scientific purpose. I never rated my trips as expeditions as they were for my enjoyment only, not scientific what so ever.

My first motorized vehicle was a Vespa Scooter. I had a front and a rear cargo carrier. I was a student with lot's of time and no money, I loaded my tent and sleeping bag and took off exploring the alps and the neighboring countries, mainly Italy, France whenever I had a couple days off. Right now, my job keeps me extremely busy. In the time I had my Tacome, I just took it once on a camping trip with the Scouts. Looking at this, I think my Vespa Scooter was more of an expedition vehicle than my Tacoma
As Mike H said very correctly; any vehicle can be an expo vehicle - it's a mindset as much as a mechanical contraption.

I'd agree with this. kinda the same situation with our family, we have a 5 series and my jeep and we are considering what to do on vacation this summer.

we have a week, and one part of our conversations is whether or not
we want to spend a sizable amount of our budget on gas for the jeep
to take us camping. That money easily translates to many nights stay
in a cheap hotel next to disneyland (for which we have annual passes)

camping/exploring becomes way less economical when you have such high fuel costs to add.

i'll reiterate that the jeep is a very robust comfortable setup for us, but like anything out there worth its salt on the trail, its pretty thirsty.

 

[Zeero]

We have chosen the Unlimited Rubicon as well for our Arctic Expedition and our South American one.....and we do the same thing as him. 4WD and high performance testing.....we've tested virtually every trail ready SUV and light pick-up out there in the past years and recent months....my business partner and good friend, even had the chance to test run the new Dodge Challenger for Chrysler in Brampton Ontario last week.

But its true....its about the adventure, not what you drive.....and if it DOES come down to what you drive, then what ever fits what you're looking for is the answer....

 

[Scott Brady]

There have been Round-the-world expeditions completed with RAV4s. So, I would much rather have a dirty Honda Element that is in the middle of Mongolia than a Toyota Land Cruiser with every conceivable modification sitting pretty in the driveway. It is unfortunate to see so much effort and expense spent modifying vehicles, as opposed to actually going anywhere interesting. The majority of peoples "overland" budget should be spent on experiences, not vehicles and modifications. Buy and drive something that works with your budget and your interests, not what someone on a forum tells you that you "must" have to travel. Most of the brand Nazis rarely leave the keyboard, let alone the driveway - that is a fact.

Jeeps certainly are expedition vehicles, in every sense of the word. This is particularly true for those of us living in North America, where highly-capable and functional overland platforms are limited.

I am happy to support Jeep and EarthRoamer with my purchase, as they are both building products that support overlanding. There is only a small handful of new vehicles that meet those requirements anymore.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

As I was treading water looking over the site I came across the list of Editorial Executives for the 'Overland Journal' . Certainly a good line up of folks.

Also in their descriptions was the Expedition rig they chose to do their global travels in. Clearly a cornucopia of rigs from a Ford F550 to a Yamaha motorcycle.

Whether you lean toward a Jeep or 'Landy' and anywhere in between its YOUR rig, your money, your tastes and your idea of what works for your style of expeditions...Its your pride of ride, no one else.:smiley_drive:

As Scott said: ' the brand Nazis rarely leave the keyboard, let alone the driveway'

 

[superpowerdave]

After pouring through all twelve pages of this, and being a proud Land Rover owner (four in the stable,) I have to say I see absolutely nothing wrong with a Jeep Wrangler platform as an expedition/overland vehicle ... nothing.

The unlimited is an extremely capable vehicle, as is any Jeep I've met along the trail, and spacious for the small footprint. Coming from a Series mentality, the vehicles share a lot more than folks might think in terms of usefulness.

Both are easily modified by the owner to fit their budget and needs, which can't be said of a lot of vehicles these days without major renovation in the cargo department. Just packing my Discovery is an undertaking in ingenuity whereas the Wrangler and the Series are both pretty simple in the cargo area and are much more adaptable. Both have somewhat hard lines making storing bins and boxes easier to do with less room wasted where my newer Rovers have curves making things fit, but not quite snug if that makes sense.

The Jeep has a huge leg up in the NA market though in aftermarket bolt-on and modification, which almost makes it an no-brainer for NA travel off-road and keeping it a little on the small side.

I own four Rovers because there is something wrong with me (as my wife would readily agree) but just this weekend when an extremely accomplished wheeler was talking with me about D90s and the lot, I had to be honest with him and I told him if I were to do it all over again, I'd have bought the Disco for the comfort and then found a nice little Jeep Wrangler to build a trail/overland rig out of ... Rover owners feel free to pm me and chastise my comments

 

[nwoods]

...just this weekend when an extremely accomplished wheeler was talking with me about D90s and the lot, I had to be honest with him and I told him if I were to do it all over again, I'd have bought the Disco for the comfort and then found a nice little Jeep Wrangler to build a trail/overland rig out of.

Pretty much the same conclusion my family came to. My parameters are a little different. I don't physically fit any of the older Rovers except the MkIII Rangie and the LR3. Equiping the LR3 properly has been a challenge and while it is very comfortable, roomy, and suitable for many trails, it will never quite be as capable as the Wrangler, nor will it ever match the Wrangler in bolt-on modifications. So now we have both.

 

[Bongo Boy]

It is unfortunate to see so much effort and expense spent modifying vehicles, as opposed to actually going anywhere interesting.

I just may have that stamped into polished brass for my office wall.

I'd also like to just gently suggest that 'modifiability' may be seen as both a huge benefit and huge detriment, depending on who you talk to. While obviously the ability to modify can't possibly be a bad thing, modifications should probably always be looked at very critically. Adding complexity should always be looked at with severe prejudice. I'm thinking many modifications, if not most, add overall system complexity. Bad juju.

In my 'expeditions', fuel is never a concern nor is cargo space, actually. My only issue is deployability or, time-to-objective. What i mean is that, covering miles has never been an objective, but getting on the trail (by foot) or getting the camp to the point where foul weather is no longer a concern or getting the next meal figured out---these have always been my biggest issues. Mine are short excursions...and i mean REALLY short. Yes, I'm exploring new stuff, but rarely exotic, life-threatening stuff. Heck, I just want a completely-deployed camp with a fire and chicken on the grill in under 20 min.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

I'd also like to just gently suggest that 'modifiability' may be seen as both a huge benefit and huge detriment, depending on who you talk to. While obviously the ability to modify can't possibly be a bad thing, modifications should probably always be looked at very critically. Adding complexity should always be looked at with severe prejudice. I'm thinking many modifications, if not most, add overall system complexity.

Bongo you can say that again!

From a modification vantage point I am not sure there is a vehicle made that has the options available to it the Jeep does. From CJ to JK and about the only other thing I can think of the has as many pages of options to chose from is a Harley.

When there is that much to chose from you often see nothing but mod after mod bolted on until the complexity get to the point it is unreliable at best and un-drivable at worst.

Before launching off the pavement into the wilds, but is a afternoon delight or a 6 mo journey to the Arctic circle one should do a Point of Failure Analysis. Even tho I did on my Jeep and then engineered the PFA's out of it I failed to heed my own advice and allowed a battery to let me down at the turn around point at the end of a long and arduous trail. Lesson learned and I am now gathering parts to do a dual battery setup.

 

[robert j. yates]

It is unfortunate to see so much effort and expense spent modifying vehicles, as opposed to actually going anywhere interesting. The majority of peoples "overland" budget should be spent on experiences, not vehicles and modifications.

Even though I own a Jeep, I like all types of vehicles so my response is not brand related. I do take a bit of exception to the above though. I own my rig outright and have for some time...its 10 years old. Its been reconfigured numerous times to more closely fit what my interest of the moment might be for off road adventure.

Modifications come with the territory of changing interests and frankly, researching them and constructing them so that they do not impact reliability is a rather fascinating endeavor in of itself. I don't get out as much as I'd like or used to. Job and family committments are sometimes more important than the pursuit of recreation...taking the time to figure changes to my rig seems to fill the void between trips.

Now and just to stir the pot.... if I were to buy another vehicle to pull my Horizon with instead of using my TJ, it would not be a TJ or a JK....it would be a Toyota truck or a Grand Cherokee diesel. The TJ quite frankly is not all that well suited for towing the AT and modifying it to more easily do so has been .... well lets just say a challenge