2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[Twistnshout]

Again, articulation is only needs to keep all four tires on the ground.

With the aid of modern traction control systems, you only need two wheels on the ground in low speed situations to maintain forward momentum and control.

And so articulation is less important. King of Hammers winning rigs prove this.

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Again, what I said prior. lol

King of hammers rigs are HIGHLY modified and no where near comparable...wish it was.

Articulation is ALWAYS preferable anything else is just an excuse. BTW the hammer rigs articulate quite well but mostly built for ground clearence and speed. Thinking they dont have traction control either. If the new defender worked even close as good I would happily concede, especially since I want to be wrong about the defender.

 

[Twistnshout]

I agree that through brake modulation you can step off the stair so to speak gently, but in a vehicle with articulation you don't have to as much. Can traction control keep this vehicle moving forward with a tire or 2 in the air....yes.....is having 2 or 3 wheels on the ground more stable than having 4..no.

The fact that traction control can keep a vehicle moving forward doesn't change basic physics that having more points of contact will always be safer, will always provide more traction and not just "enough" to keep the vehicle moving forward.

I dont think these guys wheel techical stuff so I get where they are coming from. Not bashing them but from their likely perspective how could they know? Heck I havent seeked out tech stuff myself for quite a while so this new Surrender (yuk yuk) would likely suit me fine as well.

I'd love to see the Defender do the rubicon and see how it fairs. I dont think the rubicon is all that tuff, but it is relentless and will test the driver and the rig for weaknesses.

 

[Pilat]

Not when articulation is needed, they typically suck there.

As I said: Rock crawling where extreme articulation is needed isn't really something that most people do, nor is a vehicle that has that anywhere near as great as independent suspension on anything else.

The defenders roots come directly from jeep so I would hope it would be remain comparable. It APPEARS not.

It will likely be better in just about every way, except to the rock crawling crowd who will even weld their rear axle. Off roading is way more than rock crawling.

Your definition of handling is the same as mine. A solid axle just wont be as good, but again they (solid axle) are nothing to sneeze at. Unless one is using their rigs as high speed race cars, not really needed.

It is inferior in every way to independent suspension apart from extreme rock crawling. Even low-rent cars that aren't fast by any measure is helped to grip by independent suspension.

Much of their comeout video footage does show them kicking but on forest roads so maybe that is their intended use now vs it's roots in a jeep like setting.

I am not sure what you mean by that? Rock crawling, extreme lifts and huge tyres are the "roots" of Jeep? Jeep not being as good as something with independent suspension on anything else but rock crawling? Yeah, if you want LR to make a Jeep copy and to stay with 80 year old tech, why not just buy the Wrangler?

You don't have to be driving a rally car before independent suspension is better than solid axles. And there is no way people in old jeeps and land rovers will do better than modern traction control when that is needed.

 

[michaels]

Who are the mods? Someone please kill this thread


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[Pilat]

Who are the mods? Someone please kill this thread


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Why?

People aren't making personal attacks, so why should they lock this thread?

 

[REDROVER]

here is my takenon articulation,
For example my H1 hummer, it doesn’t need no articulation, it’s triple locked from factory and when it’s locked articulation is not needed,
Plus is most cases during extreme articulation one or two of the tires are barely have enough weight on them to matter.
in fact I prefer IFS.

U know why ppl including me talk ******** about the new defender?
Because it’s bad lol it’s not authentic, it’s fragile, it’s something that resembles any other moder unreliable value dropping hated fake vehicles.
Maybe it’s not,
But most probably it is haha
Look at it, if it’s looks like a duck and it makes a duck sounds then it’s a duck.

 

[REDROVER]

On those modern 4x4s traction control is just as good as good old lockers.

 

[Pilat]

here is my takenon articulation,
For example my H1 hummer, it doesn’t need no articulation, it’s triple locked from factory and when it’s locked articulation is not needed,
Plus is most cases during extreme articulation one or two of the tires are barely have enough weight on them to matter.
in fact I prefer IFS.

U know why ppl including me talk **** about the new defender?
Because it’s bad lol it’s not authentic, it’s fragile, it’s something that resembles any other moder unreliable value dropping hated fake vehicles.
Maybe it’s not,
But most probably it is haha
Look at it, if it’s looks like a duck and it makes a duck sounds then it’s a duck.

Again you go with the "looks". To me, it "looks" very capable, but only because I know it will have IFS/IRS and have traction control and so on.
Hummer H1, I don't know what to say. Hardly a car by any means. Next, we will be invoking Unimogs, portal axles, and flexible frames and whatnot.

 

[Blaise]

I give up. I'll see you guys on the trail and keep getting the 'whoa, didn't think you could get that up here' comments.

 

[JeepColorado]

Who are the mods? Someone please kill this thread


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To what end? ...shut down a robust conversation? I've enjoyed this thread; I've learned more about why some people prefer air suspension and reflected on different 4x4 philosophies than I can recall in a long time. We don't all have to have the same opinion or else we shut down discussion although I know that's a popular option amongst some in society- I personally enjoy a spirited conversation with competing views.

Is it better to prioritize a slight improvement (some would say significant) in on-road handling that comes from IF/Rs, but at the costs of added complexity, reduced articulation and limitations in modifying? Is articulation that important to traction or can you get by without it? The answers to these questions drive the entire philosophy behind the development of a 4x4 and to the individual consumer the answers will depend on the type of off-roading you do.

I love the varying perspectives of everyone even when offered with some extra "passion".....if you don't, let me make a friendly suggestion- you don't have to look at the thread.

 

[REDROVER]

Ok let’s say it’s capable, u can’t deny it’s absolutely fragile.
do you think any military will choose this as there new vehicle of choice? zero chance.
That means it’s not something you cant depend on.

 

[dreadlocks]

Thats what all the traction control stuff is for, it'll keep that 5klb, six figure vehicle from sliding off into the tree the old defender woulda hadda shrug off..

There aint a single Hummer they made for Civilians the Military woulda used either.. this isint a military vehicle, the military dont have to worry about safety standards, emissions or competition offering more for less and driving you outta business.. the point in time where Civilian and Military vehicles had any overlap has long since passed, and there's no going back.. they will just continue to diverge further and further.

 

[Pilat]

Ok let’s say it’s capable, u can’t deny it’s absolutely fragile.

What do you mean by "fragile"? More so than incadescent bulbs, broken drive shafts, rusting beams, and general electrical rot due to water and sub-par fittings like the old one?

do you think any military will choose this as there new vehicle of choice? zero chance.

The old one wasn't a vehicle of choice either. Also, I care about safety, speed, economy, and practicality for non-military use, as I am not in the military, and I also care about comfort.

That means it’s not something you cant depend on.

That is quite the leap with no bearing on reality. By your reasoning, not even the Unimog would be "good enough", depending on which military and what purpose it would (not) be "the vehicle of choice". Hell, a tank is not "the vehicle of choice" of the military either. That doesn't mean a tank is somehow no good whatsoever. Fighter jets? Nah, no good either.

 

[DieselRanger]

I dont think these guys wheel techical stuff so I get where they are coming from. Not bashing them but from their likely perspective how could they know? Heck I havent seeked out tech stuff myself for quite a while so this new Surrender (yuk yuk) would likely suit me fine as well.

I'd love to see the Defender do the rubicon and see how it fairs. I dont think the rubicon is all that tuff, but it is relentless and will test the driver and the rig for weaknesses.

Define technical. If trails where one or two wheels are in the air aren't technical then I guess you're right.

Poughkeepsie Gulch? Nope. But you're not taking your stock Jeep Wrangler there either. Same with the Rubicon.

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[DieselRanger]

here is my takenon articulation,
For example my H1 hummer, it doesn’t need no articulation, it’s triple locked from factory and when it’s locked articulation is not needed,
Plus is most cases during extreme articulation one or two of the tires are barely have enough weight on them to matter.
in fact I prefer IFS.

U know why ppl including me talk **** about the new defender?
Because it’s bad lol it’s not authentic, it’s fragile, it’s something that resembles any other moder unreliable value dropping hated fake vehicles.
Maybe it’s not,
But most probably it is haha
Look at it, if it’s looks like a duck and it makes a duck sounds then it’s a duck.

Ok, so FIS with lockers is good. Noted. Next....

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