Best CB set-up:

[Scott Brady]

Fun to see this thread revived. I have actually made the decision to remove the CB from my truck, and do not intend to intall another one.

I will put together a little handheld with a mag-mount antenna just for the rare instance I need one.

Once you go VHF...

 

[adventureduo]

Wow, thats interesting to hear Scott.

I would think you'd just keep the unit in the truck just in case. Cheap insurance IMHO (even though you cant get out very far). Doesnt take up that much space and it's already installed ready to go. Plus, most of the population on the trails are still on CB.

Why even bother with pulling it out and putting a worse radio config in?

I guess if i could get everyone i go out with to switch over to HAM then id ditch my radio.. ... seems like there's only a handful of us with HAM's on any given trip.

 

[Scott Brady]

You know, it is all part of the simplification kick I am on. I will only bring the handheld CB when I need to use it (like for a club type event). Otherwise, just reduce the clutter as much at possible.

Everyone I travel with on a regular basis has 2M, which is so superior, I cant even imagine trying to use CB again.

For the Disco I, I am going to install a multi-band VHF/UHF Mobile. In an emergency, I can transmit on the CB frequencies with those units (with a little modification).

 

[DaveInDenver]

For the Disco I, I am going to install a multi-band VHF/UHF Mobile. In an emergency, I can transmit on the CB frequencies with those units (with a little modification).

Just a FYI, this is not true of a VHF/UHF mobile. Most of them can be opened up to do MARS/CAP range of TX, but not CB. You'll need a multi-band HF that covers 10 and 12 meters to even potentially have a way to open them up on 11 meter CB range. There is no ham 11 meter, so none of them do it legally from the box, but some 10 meter radios might be able to be modified to TX on 11 meters. But do be aware that it's entirely possible that doing that will eventually ruin your radio. I have to admit that beyond the legal and moral obligations that I think it's a big mistake to do this unless you really understand how your radio works. Microprocessor controlled radios might have the ability to force the TX range, but that does not mean the RF finals can handle it without damage. This is a problem with VX-5R, where people will freeband the TX range to use them on 222MHz and in the process they die an early death. Also don't assume that just because a radio can receive a band means that it can also potentially transmit on it. Two different sections and there is no inherent relationship between the two.

 

[Scott Brady]

Several multi-band radios can do this (which is why I said multi-band). Some require only a software mod, some require a physical modification. I have seen it work on a bench (Icom 706), and on the trail (Yeasu)

Per the regulations I have read, there is nothing moral or illegal about modifying a radio to transmit on those channels, as long as it is only used in an emergency. In an emergency, you can transmit on all bands, by any means. Correct?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Several multi-band radios can do this (which is why I said multi-band). Some require only a software mod, some require a physical modification. I have seen it work on a bench (Icom 706), and on the trail (Yeasu)

That is my point, you can do the software mod or pull up a diode and the radio will tune the VFO to the requested TX frequency. But that is not changing the characteristic of the RF amp. Think of it this way. You can hook up a laptop to the ECU in your truck and change the rev limiter to 9,000 RPM. When you push the throttle the computer will not stop you from doing that, but that does not guarantee that the pistons won't come through the block. Does that analogy make sense?

Most manufacturers are building generic boards where they can and it's likely that a main board is designed to handle a huge range of applications and models. But that stuff is relatively cheap, flexible and highly configurable. The RF side requires bigger and more expensive components, so the amps are probably designed with a smaller range of intended frequencies. So ICOM, Yeasu or Kenwood or whoever plops in the country legal finals depending on the market. Or maybe they don't and the finals are truly more wideband than they claim. I personally wouldn't be risking it with my $500 or $1000 radio without pouring over the schematics and having some test equipment hooked up first. The chance that a 10m or 12m rig can do 11m is pretty good, I will admit that. But also keep in mind that you can freeband a VX-7R and it will try to TX on CB. It puts out next to no actual RF energy at the connector and gets really hot in a hurry, though. Just gotta know what the radio is really capable of and what it's not.

Per the regulations I have read, there is nothing moral or illegal about modifying a radio to transmit on those channels, as long as it is only used in an emergency. In an emergency, you can transmit on all bands, by any means. Correct?

Yes and no. This is interpreted a couple of ways. Some people claim that in a life or limb emergency all means of communication are available. Others conclude that the FCC means that as a ham in an emergency you can use any ham band, any ham mode regardless of your license. IOW, a tech ham would be justified in transmitting a voice message at 1500W at 28.300MHz, a place that is usually reserved for Morse only at 200W for a tech. You are also 100% correct that there is no reason legally you can't do the modification as long as the radio still compiles with the EMI/EMC, bandwidth and sporadic noise regulations for ham rigs. Then what constitutes an emergency is a gray area. Come across a hiker with a broken leg and no cell phone service, so you call on a police frequency for help? Nope, that scenario resulted in a fine and loss of equipment for a guy in San Diego I think it was. To what level is not universally defined or recognized. If there was truly a life at stake I think all of us would do what's right and deal with the fall out later. But if the situation is not crystal clear and there were viable alternatives, then the decision is less clear. In the eye's of the FCC even a several day hike is the choice you make and anything else is most definitely illegal and I just think you need to understand that before planning on it as an option. Public service agencies, government and commercial operators take their frequency allocations seriously and tend to get really upset when you overstep your authority.

 

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for the additional information Dave. I would not likely do the CB mod. to the unit, but have seen it done successfully on an FT-857D and transmit effectively (before I was a HAM). He used it that way for several days on a trip without issue, transmitting on either 1.5 or 5 watts (I don't remember).

If an FT-867D was modified, and only transmitted at 4 watts on a CB channel, I assume that is still not kosher, or is it?

 

[Scott Brady]

I really do not know for sure, but I do specifically remember one section of the manual for the test (and a question) specifically saying that in an emergency, you could transmit by whatever means necessary.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The illegality is using a ham radio on anything other than ham. Within the ham hobby the idea of modifications and tweaks are perfectly legal (and in spirit encouraged, you are supposed to experiment). But you are not allowed in the rules to use a ham radio on other services. So you could take a commercial or public service radio and make it a ham radio, but once you do that it can't go back into commercial service. I don't believe it's actually illegal to even own a radio that could do out of ham TX, but once you use it for ham then you are never supposed to use it otherwise. There is a question of whether owning a freeband radio shows intent or not. IOW, if you own a HF radio that has been modified to work on CB the FCC could decide that just by owning it shows you intended to TX illegally or beyond your authority. It would be a really hard thing to prove unless you do it a lot and they have record of it. And even then if you stay within the rules and don't cause anyone's TV or garage door opener to go wacky, then it's also not gonna be noticed. Most (probably nearly every) times the reason someone is noticed is they are causing noise on a phone or a scrambled TV. Next to that would be TXing on a fire or police frequency. Someone who has a HF modded to do CB in the backcountry, who's gonna really care?

Whether or not a modified 867 fits the specs and rules of CB does not make it legal. It's not and there's not really a rule that can support that. But in practical terms, if you are using QRP levels it's really unlikely anyone would care. CB is all but ignored by the FCC in enforcement. But as a ham, I just wanted to point out that you are really supposed to be knowledgeable and mindful of these things.

And, yeah, Scott, that line about any means necessary is often quoted. No one is really sure what is defined by that because the FCC has generally imposed hefty penalties on people who have tested it and so it's not clear. I think this is largely because every possible case for usage can never be developed and documented and so I think the FCC would rather be vague and take it on a case-by-case basis. It's safe to assume that it means as a ham you can use any ham frequency for any mode (meaning you have access to any band even if it's not normally open under your license). It's less safe to assume as a ham you have the authority to use any frequency you want without justification.

 

[Lynn]

Thanks for the additional information Dave. I would not likely do the CB mod. to the unit, but have seen it done successfully on an FT-857D and transmit effectively (before I was a HAM). He used it that way for several days on a trip without issue, transmitting on either 1.5 or 5 watts (I don't remember).

If an FT-867D was modified, and only transmitted at 4 watts on a CB channel, I assume that is still not kosher, or is it?

From what I understand, the modified FT-867D would be illegal in the FCC's eyes.

I did a little related research back when I was on a SAR team. I wanted to 'open up' my Ham HT for use during SAR activites. Even though I was licensed to use the radio on Ham freqs., and (as a member of the SAR team) I could legally use the SAR freqs., the Ham radio had not been 'type accepted' specifically for SAR freqs., so was illegal to use on those freqs.

In other words, if your FT-867D has not been tested and approved by the FCC for use on CB frequencies, it is illegal to use it on CB frequecies.

 

[articulate]

Curious: What's the benefit here?

If you can make your HAM radio transmit on 11 meters and get into some dude's CB radio in a Jeep . . . that doesn't mean he can talk to you (due to the lower transmit power on his radio). I suppose you could tx your coords and just hope it hits somebody - but you may not know if it does. Or you could be working on hitting the nearest repeater on a band your radio is manufactured to transmit on. Right?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Curious: What's the benefit here?

If you can make your HAM radio transmit on 11 meters and get into some dude's CB radio in a Jeep . . . that doesn't mean he can talk to you (due to the lower transmit power on his radio). I suppose you could tx your coords and just hope it hits somebody - but you may not know if it does. Or you could be working on hitting the nearest repeater on a band your radio is manufactured to transmit on. Right?

For the CB thing, I think the majority of people simply want one radio in their truck. Nothing sinister beyond that.

The freebanding comes from a section of the FCC rules that is not clearly defined and so in the interest of planning and covering all your bases people often wonder if they could just call the fire department directly or get help if they are in a bad way. I think for the most part it's also just a natural urge to be prepared, no intent to break any laws or anything.

In the end, I do think your best option is using a VHF or UHF ham repeater for an emergency auto patch or just to contact another ham. I think that going through the right channel (911 either by cell or radio patch-thru) is actually more likely to get the response you need. Imagine the confusion it will create if you call on a police dispatcher's frequency. By the time they validate you and your problem and get actual help to you, it probably would have been better just walking a couple of hours to a place where you could get a ham signal or cell phone coverage.

The one argument that someone made to me about freebanding your radio would be once you made contact, then you can talk to anyone you might need to. For example, a helo to coordinate a rescue, relay your location to a SAR team, whatever. But the problem in my view is that it's not possible to have every single band, know all frequencies and modes on one radio. Antennas have limited bandwidth, there are different modes, different PL or DCS tones, etc. So unless you can practice these things in a non-emergency situation, you don't really know if it's even gonna work, what your range really is and IMHO it can't really be counted on. So that's my take, just understand how what you have works and practice within those criteria rather than being distracted with all the what-ifs and maybes.

 

[edgear]

Once you go VHF...

I think I recall BajaTaco saying "Once you go 2M, there's nothing sweeter!" (but correct me if I'm wrong, Chris).

I will put together a little handheld with a mag-mount antenna just for the rare instance I need one.

I actually have the same setup. Good for those instances when others are on CB and not 2M. I also carry a few FRS handhelds for the same reason, which I prefer over the CB.

 

[gary in ohio]

Also keep in mind that that "10" meter ham radio is not only illegal to use on CB, it most likley is an export radio and cant legally be sold as a ham radio in the US either since it doesnt have part 15 certification for US sales.

CB radio on the highway is good for about 2 mile range, Out in the open away from the RF noise, 5 miles. a "LEGAL" 4watt $25 radio is going to talk as far as a "LEGAL" 4 watt $250 radio. features is what you pay for, often the $25, $50 and $100 version of a radio use the same circuit boards and only populate the boards for the pricelevel of the features. The Transmitter and receiver boards are exactly the same.

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I'm kind of disappointed that the....."Best CB Radio Set Up" thread .....has turned into a.......

2 meter ham radio is better....etc. kinda thread.

CB Radio is not as good as ham radio. I admit that right here and now.

But CB Radio will only be as good as you make it. When you observe the fact that Only 4 watts is legal........then the only way to make your CB put out better, is to buy the best quality CB Antenna you can find, and set the swr perfect.....then maybe one needs to pay attention.

I have an old 1976 EF Johnson CB Radio that I've been using for 30+ years. Once I upgraded to a quality antenna and tuned it with an swr meter.....the results were Amazing! My radio now puts out better than it Ever has before.

I live in north county San Diego which has hills everywhere. I can talk to Santee 20+ miles to my south from my driveway at home over hills. I can also talk to Valley Center 35 miles north of me over the hills. In a flat desert I have talked 60+ miles. I have even shot skip to Bakersfield, CA. from Kayenta, Arizona and had a conversation. From the Top of the World Trail near Moab, Utah I have talked to well West of Green River over 60+ miles and clear into Colorado the same distance.

It's most frustrating to me that when I am on a group run.....no one knows or understands that you must have a quality antenna and tune the swr perfect, to be able to communicate beyond 2 miles or however bad they think CB Radio's are.

Here is a link to my rescue from the Panamint Mountains.....which proves that my CB Radio went long distance....even through a deep canyon...... and saved me from the "Long Walk".

http://www.panamintvalley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3472


There is a 2 Meter Yaesu I have my eye on for as little as $119 bucks. And a simple mag mount antenna can be had for under $20 bucks. No big deal. I've only been on a trail Once.......with folks that had 2 meter radios. But they also had CB's. Almost everyone I have gone on the trail with has Only had a CB Radio. And Yes....they have always been frustrated with it. But it does not have to be that way!

I am interested in 2 Meter and the whole concept of repeaters....etc. I think that's very kewl. One day I will get a 2 Meter. But I will also Always have a CB Radio in my truck. It's most useful, including while travelling on the interstate, while trying to get to your dirt destination. In fact....a good call from a wise trucker can even save your life. I'm serious!


Maybe because I have been saved by my CB Radio....I feel a bit more passionate about it. Please do not take this post as being an upset post. I'm not upset. I simply hope to inform those that have CB Radio's and who are unhappy with them.....that the problem can be fixed!

I just think there is more than enough room in our trucks for both 2 Meter and CB Radios to accommodate all who wish to travel with us.

A hand held with an 8" rubber ducky will have you swearing at your CB Radio! I Promise!

Please do not take this as an angry, upset post..........it is Not!

I only wish to inform. If anyone has a question about how to make their CB put out farther....feel free to send me a PM.......hopefully, I can find links to sites that can help you understand and fix the problem.


http://www.wilsonantenna.com/w5000.htm<~ The Wilson 5000 is over 65% larger than the famous Wilson 1000


http://www.wilsonantenna.com/w1000.htm <~ Tests by Lockheed show the Wilson 1000 has 58% more power gain than the K40


Setting the SWR................


Radio Wave Propagation.............

I want to add to my post to make it clear that although I have talked 60+ miles on my CB on a clear night many times, one must not think that this can be consistantly done with 11 meter. If one studies the links I have posted in this thread, then one will notice that there are things we can do to help give our CB Radios optimum performance.

For better and more reliable communication in the outback, a ham radio would be a positive addition to anyones expedition rig.

.