Best deal on synthetic winch rope???

[Eventhough]

Anyone know if 80ft of 3/8 synthetic winch line will fit on the M8000?

That should fit, 100' of 5/16ths is what comes from the factory so about 85' of 3/8ths will fit.

And please don't try to shove 100' of 3/8 on there. It will fit on a straight and perfect spool in so many people say "Hey - I can fit 100' on here!" but as soon as you get into a side pull situation you are going to be hating it as the rope will bunch up on the close side and if you don't catch it soon enough will bind up and possibly damage your winch and line. Best case you will have to do a ton of short pulls and reset every few feet, especially if the vehicle you are recovering is close to you.

 

[Dave Bennett]

Thanks guys, seems the 3/8 line is quite a bit stronger so I'm thinking that might be good.

 

[Eventhough]

Plain 3/8" line is stronger at 18,000 lbs than 5/16" at 13,000 (these are Master-Pull #'s) and Amsteel blue #'s are slightly lower. Or you could go with Master-Pull's Superline or Superline XD in 5/16" at 21,000 lbs which is what I am upgrading to soon but it is more expensive.

 

[opie]

Plain 3/8" line is stronger at 18,000 lbs than 5/16" at 13,000 (these are Master-Pull #'s) and Amsteel blue #'s are slightly lower. Or you could go with Master-Pull's Superline or Superline XD in 5/16" at 21,000 lbs which is what I am upgrading to soon but it is more expensive.

Amsteel Blues average strength numbers are higher than Amsteel (sans the Blue)

Example: Average strength of 3/8 Amsteel is 15,5000. 3/8 Amsteel Blue is 19,600.

 

[opie]

Thanks guys, seems the 3/8 line is quite a bit stronger so I'm thinking that might be good.

There is a trade off to strength. And thats the amount of line you can get on the drum.

Keep in mind, going from 5/16 wire rope to 5/16 Amsteel Blue will net you a gain of about 4000 pounds in strength. While allowing you to spool on the same amount of line.

 

[Eventhough]

Plain 3/8" line is stronger at 18,000 lbs than 5/16" at 13,000 (these are Master-Pull #'s) and Amsteel blue #'s are slightly lower. Or you could go with Master-Pull's Superline or Superline XD in 5/16" at 21,000 lbs which is what I am upgrading to soon but it is more expensive.

Amsteel Blues average strength numbers are higher than Amsteel (sans the Blue)

Example: Average strength of 3/8 Amsteel is 15,5000. 3/8 Amsteel Blue is 19,600.

That's correct. The #'s I quoted were Master-Pull and Amsteel Blue. I have faith in those numbers. Some companies I have talked to claim to make their own line and be as strong as Amsteel Blue yet much cheaper. I'll try to save a $ some places, but on recovery equipment where failure doesn't mean a broken down truck but possibly a broken body I chose proven gear.

 

[Eventhough]

There is a trade off to strength. And thats the amount of line you can get on the drum.

Keep in mind, going from 5/16 wire rope to 5/16 Amsteel Blue will net you a gain of about 4000 pounds in strength. While allowing you to spool on the same amount of line.

Plus lighter weight, easier on your equipment, doesn't bur and cut your hands, safer...

<thread hijack> I lived in E Lansing from ~ 2005-2007. Nice place but too cold for my blood. </thread hijack>

 

[Master-Pull]

FWIW we will always use minimum breaking strength on all of our lines, other companies will use average in order to inflate their numbers.

-Alex

 

[opie]

FWIW we will always use minimum breaking strength on all of our lines, other companies will use average in order to inflate their numbers.

-Alex

I dont think its fair to assume that someone is intentionally inflating their numbers by using any of the manufacturers numbers. I understand why you use the minimum, but manufacturers state the average for a reason.

Your website (Masterpull) states 3/8 at a minimum of 18,000 and 5/16 at a minimum of 13,000 while Samsons site (assuming youre using Amsteel Blue) states 17,600 and 12,300 respectively. Your Amsteel blue site has the 3/8 at the proper minimum (Based on what you said above) but the 5/16 is at 12,600.

Splitting hairs, I know, but to come out of the gate making the insinuation that someone else is being dishonest using manufacturer numbers is a little unfair.

Kris

Edit: I do factor in an automatic 10% reduction in line capacity due to the splice. This does bring me down right to the minimum numbers.

 

[opie]

That's correct. The #'s I quoted were Master-Pull and Amsteel Blue. I have faith in those numbers. Some companies I have talked to claim to make their own line and be as strong as Amsteel Blue yet much cheaper. I'll try to save a $ some places, but on recovery equipment where failure doesn't mean a broken down truck but possibly a broken body I chose proven gear.

Thats sound logic.

 

[Eventhough]

I really don't think Master-Pull was calling anyone dishonest. We could bury each other in statistics looking at minimum vs average breaking point, standard deviations, etc. Waaaaaaaaaaay back in the day I worked at an outdoor store (hiking, climbing, biking, etc) and I recall one climbing company publishing the average breaking strength of their pro plus standard deviations on each piece of equipment. They did have one piece of pro break much easier than all other identical pieces which was very important. It might not effect average breaking point much but it would minimum. Climbing and vehicle recovery are similar in that if a piece of equipment breaks you can be hurt badly - more so in climbing but there is still a great chance of injury or death if a line breaks in vehicle recovery.

If your average breaking point for 3/8" line is 19,200 lbs (pulled that out of the air) but due to poor manufacturing standards and poor QA/QC you have a piece of line break at 9,000 lbs that could make your day turn very bad very quickly. Again it wouldn't effect (or is it affect) the average if your test sample is large enough but it would shoot your minimum in the foot. (BTW - my stats are poor - I'm trying to remember from grad school 10 years ago.)

You'd be surprised at how many synthetic line vendors can't even state how they test their line or if the breaking point they publish is minimum or average. I've asked before "How do you test your line?" with the answer "On a machine." At least that vendor offered a piece of line for me to test.

 

[opie]

I would hope the intent of the comment wasn't to suggest dishonesty, but it sure appeared that way.

Especially when said comment doesn't jive with whats on their own site.

It's tough to break into a market like winch lines, recovery ropes etc. with so many reputable and non-reputable people doing it. While I agree there are companies that don't know what they are doing, the comment was far to general for me to not comment on, personally. To date haven't had 1 failure in my splices following the manufacturers specifications for splicing class 1 and class 2 cord, hollow and double braid. The destruction tests I did showed the failure to be at the average strength of the line I was testing, on average, for Amsteel Blue. There's no reason to not believe the manufacturers numbers unless you aren't following the splicing procedure properly.

You are right though, we could chase numbers around all day!!!

 

[opie]

I want to apologize for going OT. I took a specific comment personally.

 

[Master-Pull]

I apologize that my response wasn't clear, but it wasn't meant to bash any other companies. We personally have seen other manufacturers and retailers use the average breaking strength over the minimum. Statistically the average is accurate and you probably wont see a rope break below that too often, but we like to be on the safe side and use the minimum just in case there is a bad batch or a production error.

Another thing is that most of these synthetic ropes will never be brought up to a point where they can be broken anywhere near the posted breaking strength. Most failures we see are because the lines were abraded in some way or the strands were cut, reducing the overall capacity of the rope and rendering that initial breaking strength number useless. Normal wear and tear on a rope from the elements, improper use, or maybe an accidental cut from a rock all lower the strength.

I am trying to impart some of the knowledge (both useful and useless) that we pick up dealing with these ropes so you as the customer can make an intelligent and informed purchasing decision.

-Alex

 

[opie]

I apologize that my response wasn't clear, but it wasn't meant to bash any other companies. We personally have seen other manufacturers and retailers use the average breaking strength over the minimum. Statistically the average is accurate and you probably wont see a rope break below that too often, but we like to be on the safe side and use the minimum just in case there is a bad batch or a production error.

That doesnt mean they are "inflating" their numbers. I can appreciate why you use the minimum, but that doesnt mean others using the average are wrong. Ill concede that not factoring in some safety margin isnt a good idea.... But using the manufacturers numbers is not "inflating" numbers.

Another thing is that most of these synthetic ropes will never be brought up to a point where they can be broken anywhere near the posted breaking strength. Most failures we see are because the lines were abraded in some way or the strands were cut, reducing the overall capacity of the rope and rendering that initial breaking strength number useless. Normal wear and tear on a rope from the elements, improper use, or maybe an accidental cut from a rock all lower the strength.

This is why I never suggest "going the next size up so if you do get some abrasion or cuts, youll be OK still using it." Fact is if you have abrasion or cuts in your line, you have no idea just how weak the rope is now. Having a false sense of security because you "went up to the next size" is dangerous.

I am trying to impart some of the knowledge (both useful and useless) that we pick up dealing with these ropes so you as the customer can make an intelligent and informed purchasing decision.

-Alex

Thats always a plus. I too enjoy imparting knowledge.

I apologize I took your comment personally. I hope you can understand how comments like that, left to stand as you did, effect us smaller guys. In some ways it has merit, but it was far to general.

Kris.