Canadian Disco 2 Build

[LandyAndy]

Unfortunatly.... swappng out gas to diesel in a D2 is a real can of worms.... not just the parts requirement but the electronics too. I believe you also need the complete fuel system.... pump, pipework etc... plus all the little clips thta break off when you try to remove them.

The time it'd take to do the conversion you'd never get back in fuel savings.... best off fix what you have as you want & move on. Spend the money you save on some other new toys for the truck.

Been there already, have a friend who works at Jaguar/Land Rover on engine development for tech support (IRB Developments) and it's just not worth the sleepless nights.

Andy

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Well, so the latest update on this is that it is well underway.

I ordered a brand new R380 L-suffix V8 gearbox to be built from Ashcroft. It was only about twice the price of an unknown junkyard gearbox, and I just didn't see the point in worrying about the condition of the box considering the complexity of the project. At the least, I would have gone with an Ashcroft rebuilt box, but then that was only a few hundred dollars less than brand new anyway.

Actually, one of the most painful decisions was the flywheel. $100 used vs. $600 new. But the used parts vendor hadn't actually found one of these very rare specimens only promised to locate one which I was skeptical of, and I knew I'd have to get it resurfaced anyway so... I just went for the new one.

From Ashcroft I also ordered a new clutch and pressure plate, and a Mocal oil cooler kit. Why spend money on the Mocal? Well, at this point... only the best! :victory:

The flywheel, and just about all the other bits (slave cylinder, master cylinder, clutch fork, etc. etc.) were purchased new through Lucky 8 LLC. I chose him largely because he's a no-BS guy, and he's the only one who's done this before and I value his assistance with it. I plan to drive down an pick up the pallet of parts from him in about 2 weeks.

The only piece of the puzzle left remaining is reflashing the engine ECU to understand it is now a manual transmission. I thought I could do that with a Black Box Solutions MVS2, but that is not the case. This appears to be Testbook or nothing. Justin is going to try it out on a spare ECU and see what happens, as he needs this to be done on his truck as well.

 

[JSQ]

From Ashcroft I also ordered a new clutch and pressure plate, and a Mocal oil cooler kit. Why spend money on the Mocal? Well, at this point... only the best!

It's this kind of "more must be better" thinking that is going to screw you and others.

Has anyone here experienced an overheated R380? I sure as hell haven't.
But R_Lefebvre is going to add a cooler and lines. Because more must be better.

Now have you ever heard of cooler lines leaking?
Only on every Land Rover that ever had them.
So now R_Lefebvre has introduced the potential to leak a flammable fluid under pressure to answer a question nobody asked. Go figure.

 

[Antichrist]

Has anyone here experienced an overheated R380? I sure as hell haven't.

I'm not sure of the relevance of that question when it comes to an R380 in a Discovery. They all, or nearly all, came with oil coolers. The R380 in the Defender didn't, but they have more airflow around them.

Now have you ever heard of cooler lines leaking?
Only on every Land Rover that ever had them.

That's commonly the engine oil cooler lines, a higher pressure line than the R380 oil cooler line. But in any case that weakness can be easily remedied with decent lines. There's no reason you have to use OEM lines.

All that aside, for the Canadian climate my guess would be that the OEM cooler would be plenty good enough.

 

[94Discovery]

Well, so the latest update on this is that it is well underway.

I ordered a brand new R380 L-suffix V8 gearbox to be built from Ashcroft. It was only about twice the price of an unknown junkyard gearbox, and I just didn't see the point in worrying about the condition of the box considering the complexity of the project. At the least, I would have gone with an Ashcroft rebuilt box, but then that was only a few hundred dollars less than brand new anyway.

Actually, one of the most painful decisions was the flywheel. $100 used vs. $600 new. But the used parts vendor hadn't actually found one of these very rare specimens only promised to locate one which I was skeptical of, and I knew I'd have to get it resurfaced anyway so... I just went for the new one.

From Ashcroft I also ordered a new clutch and pressure plate, and a Mocal oil cooler kit. Why spend money on the Mocal? Well, at this point... only the best! :victory:

The flywheel, and just about all the other bits (slave cylinder, master cylinder, clutch fork, etc. etc.) were purchased new through Lucky 8 LLC. I chose him largely because he's a no-BS guy, and he's the only one who's done this before and I value his assistance with it. I plan to drive down an pick up the pallet of parts from him in about 2 weeks.

The only piece of the puzzle left remaining is reflashing the engine ECU to understand it is now a manual transmission. I thought I could do that with a Black Box Solutions MVS2, but that is not the case. This appears to be Testbook or nothing. Justin is going to try it out on a spare ECU and see what happens, as he needs this to be done on his truck as well.

nice cannot wait for a full review :jumping::jumping:

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Oh Jack, you're so predictable. If it's not BDM, it's crap

How would you know if you've overheated your R380? Do you have an oil temp gauge? Are you aware that overheated R380's suffer degraded shifting feel? Could it possibly be at least somewhat responsible for the reputation of the R380?

More importantly, do you know more about the R380 than Dave Ashcroft?

Have I ever heard of cooler lines leaking? ****, that was my job for 4 years, that's all I heard about, leaking oil cooler lines. I know a thing or two about it. Would you like to discuss the finer points of DVP&R?

Do YOU know anything about Aeroquip fittings, or Mocal coolers? Or is it just non-OEM so you assume it's crap?

Tom: I thought about running coolerless as the European spec Discos. But I figured with the heavy trailers I tow, and the V8 putting out 50% more power than a TD5 why chance it? I believe the OEM cooler for the R380 is actually the same piece as for the ZF. In which case, it might even be overkill for the R380. The smaller Mocal cooler will therefore free up airflow to the rad.

And, the Ashcroft Mocal oil cooler kit cost about the same as a new OEM cooler, lines, and Thermostat would be anyway.

Gosh, I hope Ashcroft used the correct shade of paint on my gearbox!

 

[Antichrist]

The R380 oil cooler I think is the same as on the automatic. At least my '97 ZF has the same oil cooler as my '95 R380, a 2.5-3" dia. finned tube that I don't think really restricts the airflow to any degree. I haven't had long enough to check out all the differences/similarities.
I removed the one from my '95 to make room for my winch.
I'm in the process of rebuilding my Disco's R380, whether the need for it has anything to do with not having an oil cooler for 150k miles I have no idea.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

The D2 has a larger cooler, roughly the same width as the rad, and about 6" deep.

 

[JSQ]

The R380 without a cooler is largely a sealed unit.
There's little to no chance of it leaking. Any cooler and any lines are introducing a chance for failure.

The R380 is robust and fairly reliable. Adding the cooler can diminish that reliability. If you fourwheel farther than an hour or two from your front door you start to care about ******** like the possibility of your tranny puking out while you're on the trail.

Good lines?
There's no line on earth that's less likely to leak than no lines at all.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Jack, you just keep driving your European spec Defender in hot climates without the cooler that Land Rover fitted. And be happy. I will put a cooler on mine as Land Rover intended and be happy.

 

[Antichrist]

It's all a trade off.
For some, no oil cooler is obviously the way to go.
For others, they may decide that few (or no) stories of Disco R380's overheating may be related to the fact that the majority have oil coolers fitted so the sample set, for them to base the conclusion that no cooler is needed, is too small to be meaningful.

 

[Viggen]

You just cant win it seems. Its your truck. If you want to deviate from the original stuff and you have the money to do it, do it. People have been doing that since the beginning of the car. Just keep in mind that with every modification comes an issue that you never expected, especially true with a completely computerized D2. If you like a manual trans, and I do too, and you can source the computer update, the propshafts, crossmember, linkage, etc..., do it.

I personally, would go with an LS3 4.8 out of a GM truck (CHEAP! like, <$600 for a sub 40k mile COMPLETE motor, more reliable, parts are ubiquitous, not much heavier than the stock motor, and much more powerful), an NV3550 5 speed (completely NEW for <$1400, very very good trans that shifts extremely nicely and much stronger), and probably a Dana 18 (<$800 completely rebuilt with new components, strong, single side output like the Rover case, low gearing options are there as well as a couple of bolt on overdrives). That would make a completely NA serviceable drivetrain that would be extremely strong and reliable.

That being said, its your money and you should do what you want with it. If you like the R380 trans and dont mind spending the money for it, do it.

 

[chris snell]

I'm not really buying the airflow argument. It's the same gearbox and a small difference in airflow between the D90 and D2 isn't going to drastically alter the convective cooling.

If you really want to improve the durability of your gearbox, cut your vehicle weight down. The D2 and D90 have nearly the same max GVW but you're at a major disadvantage because of the higher curb weight. Add a bunch of heavy equipment like that massive undercarriage protection that you've built and you are almost certainly pushing max GVW if you aren't exceeding it already.

Oil cooler lines are nothing but problems, even with high-end fittings. There's a reason that so many D90s have burned to the ground.

Worst case with a plain R380 is that you have to stop for a while and let it cool down, maybe adding a little ATF. Worst case for a R380 with oil cooler lines is that you lose a line set your truck on fire. Next worse case is that you loose a line and spill all of your ATF on the ground. Hopefully you will have spares and you'll spend the next couple off hours cleaning up the mess and installing the new line. You'll also need to carry more fluids with you to prepare for such a scenario.

I've driven my truck over a 3,000' mountain pass on a daily basis, even near max GVW, and I've never had a problem with my R380. I think you are over-thinking this.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

That would make a completely NA serviceable drivetrain that would be extremely strong and reliable.

And how do you get the BCU to work without the Rover ECU?

I think you are over-thinking this.

I didn't put much thought into it at all. Ashcroft says the R380 has an oil cooler for ROW, and it's recommended. So I bought the Ashcroft Aeroquip/Mocal oil cooler kit.

 

[Antichrist]

I'm sure there's a valid reason Land Rover fit oil coolers to R380's in Discos and didn't to Defenders.
How many Defenders have burned to the ground because of R380 oil cooler line faliures?
How many Disco's have burned to the ground because of R380 oil cooler line failures?

On a side note, if you're using ATF in your R380 you're not using the correct lubricant.
Land Rovers specs MTF.