Clutch’s deep thoughts thread...

[bkg]

Why is it so long? My '08 is 127 inch wheelbase and my '91 was 122 inches, both long cabs (e.g. Access and XtraCab) with 6' beds. I thought the Double Cab short boxes on Tacomas was the same wheel base as those. The Double Cab long box is a battleship length 140 inches or something, which seems really long to me.

My point is only that as a truck having neither much cab space nor a regular length bed would direct me towards a 4Runner + utility trailer. As it is I have to use trailers periodically even with 6 feet of bed but at least it's long enough for 8' stuff and for me to lay down in.

I know guys like to bob beds on XtraCab length trucks for 'crawlers but that's such a specific user. I'd prefer a regular cab wheelbase (110" for the 2nd gens) off road for sure, I get it. But it loses utility and I already think 6 feet is barely long enough for a truck. I wish we could still get 7 foot beds. Add a few inches to the regular cab so I could put the seat back far enough and it would be perfect. That's mainly why I bought an XtraCab in the first place, comfortable enough to be able to angle the seat and have it back far enough that I could let the clutch pedal up all the way. Actually the 2nd gen mini truck XtraCab cab was pretty much spot on IMO.

I know it'll never happen, mini/midsize trucks aren't about being trucks.

I'll have to remeasure... but front is pushed forward ~3" for the axle to clear the oil pan... and rear is back 1", IIRC... So maybe ~130" is a better estimate.

 

[phsycle]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the global Ranger looks a whole lot more BA and offroad-ready compared to the North American version, even without the steel bumper?

I'm glad the Ranger is finally coming back into the North American market, but why the hell didn't Ford just give us a slightly modified version of the tried-and-true global Ranger (similar to how Toyota gives us the 4runner and LC 200)?

Doesn't that go back to why the Tacoma was created. Toyota had the Hilux in the States. But created the Tacoma to meet demand.

 

[bkg]

Yup, which is the one major reason why I could never buy one. 14-15MPG.... Just can't stomach that, even with low gas prices. Plus the size thing....great for the handful of trips per year. Not so great for day to day stuff.

And all y'all going off about the bed size. Pffft. 5' is just fine by me. Carries my bikes. Hauls lumber every 8 years when I need it. Bags of fertilizer couple times a year. All of the monster 6" trout I catch. And a few leaves and/or snow on a daily basis. Nope, can't sleep in the back with the tailgate up. Good thing I'm not homeless. Huge load too big for 5' but just enough for 6'? Can't remember last time that's happened. It's usually a payload issue, not length.
I'm probably like 95% of the buyer market. Need 75% daily drive/people hauling capacity and 25% truck.

For me, about perfect.

My 02 4runner gets 15. My 04 Tacoma dcab gets about 15. My F350 gets about 15.... all around town.

Seems to be the magic number for me.

 

[battleaxe]

he said his Tacoma gets 16-17... I was able to eek out 18 on a Tundra that was ~1k heavier and with 2 more cylinders.

People tend to assume that less cylinders = better mileage... but that's not a rule....

Seen a few builds over the years, but can't find this specific one. LS1 swapped 1st gen 4runner, 35's, toy axles, and supposedly was hitting a whopping 28mpg.

Another guy follows suit... BUT. One tons, linked, 42's, Atlas, Exo, yada yada yada... 16mpg, and then calls the other guy a liar.

First build is still street driveable... Second is a trailer queen in most areas

 

[DaveInDenver]

Doesn't that go back to why the Tacoma was created. Toyota had the Hilux in the States. But created the Tacoma to meet demand.

The Tacoma and Tundra I think exist probably due to the unique nature of domestic users and classification rules. The Hilux had/has about 25% more capacity than a class 1 (sub 6,000 lbs GVWR) light duty truck needs in the U.S. and most people are like you, driving them as cars more than trucks. They were making essentially a class 2 truck but not getting paid for it. There's also the chicken tax on importing trucks that they are getting around.

It seems otherwise illogical to make a truck only for one market and dedicate so much production capacity to it. If they just sold the Hilux here they could leverage global production to direct supply where demand was. They did make them here from 1992 to 1995 at NUMMI, too. If they continued to do that they could make substantially the same models but have the option to bring in a few stripped models for dirtbags. That was still happening, I looked at one 1992 truck like that (4 cylinder, regular cab, 4x4) with a Japanese VIN even though most by then were SR5 V6 XtraCab and had NUMMI VINs.

 

[bkg]

Seen a few builds over the years, but can't find this specific one. LS1 swapped 1st gen 4runner, 35's, toy axles, and supposedly was hitting a whopping 28mpg.

Another guy follows suit... BUT. One tons, linked, 42's, Atlas, Exo, yada yada yada... 16mpg, and then calls the other guy a liar.

First build is still street driveable... Second is a trailer queen in most areas

my 04 Supercharged, SAS'd, 37"-tire xcab has gotten 18+ on the highway when I used to drive it more often. Luck? Probably...

 

[battleaxe]

Yup, which is the one major reason why I could never buy one. 14-15MPG.... Just can't stomach that, even with low gas prices. Plus the size thing....great for the handful of trips per year. Not so great for day to day stuff.

And all y'all going off about the bed size. Pffft. 5' is just fine by me. Carries my bikes. Hauls lumber every 8 years when I need it. Bags of fertilizer couple times a year. All of the monster 6" trout I catch. And a few leaves and/or snow on a daily basis. Nope, can't sleep in the back with the tailgate up. Good thing I'm not homeless. Huge load too big for 5' but just enough for 6'? Can't remember last time that's happened. It's usually a payload issue, not length.
I'm probably like 95% of the buyer market. Need 75% daily drive/people hauling capacity and 25% truck.

For me, about perfect.

Same thing with people cramming armor and stuff all over their DD's. I bet at least 75% never need or use any of it. Same with MT's on daily driven full size trucks.

I like the 6' bed on the DCLB, hate the wheelbase about twice a year when it actually is a problem on tighter trails. We spend most of our time on FSR's and some moderate trails. So really, the DCLB isn't THAT bad all around for me

 

[phsycle]

The Tacoma and Tundra I think exist probably due to the unique nature of domestic users and classification rules. The Hilux has about 30% more capacity than a class 1 (sub 6,000 lbs GVWR) light duty truck needs in the U.S. and most people are like you, driving them as cars more than trucks.

That's true. As much as I would like more payload at times, I don't think it would outweigh the want of a better ride 98% of the time. Apparently rings true for most of the buyer base. Smooth-riding vehicles that can go "anywhere." Which is why these are marketed as pretty much recreational vehicles than work trucks. I don't know anyone with a Tacoma that actually uses it like a work truck. Those that do, drive 3/4 tons.

 

[phsycle]

Same thing with people cramming armor and stuff all over their DD's. I bet at least 75% never need or use any of it. Same with MT's on daily driven full size trucks.

I like the 6' bed on the DCLB, hate the wheelbase about twice a year when it actually is a problem on tighter trails. We spend most of our time on FSR's and some moderate trails. So really, the DCLB isn't THAT bad all around for me

Yeah, for sure, it would depend on your usage. I doubt I'd have much trouble with a DCLB. My garage is tight and same for parking at work. Plus, frankly, I just don't need it.

 

[Clutch]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the global Ranger looks a whole lot more BA and offroad-ready compared to the North American version, even without the steel bumper?

I'm glad the Ranger is finally coming back into the North American market, but why the hell didn't Ford just give us a slightly modified version of the tried-and-true global Ranger (similar to how Toyota gives us the 4runner and LC 200)?

Had to dumb it down for the North American market...like what Toyota did to the HiLux and made a NA specific Tacoma model. A lot us of die-hard Toyota fan boys would love the HiLux over the Tacoma. Same with the Ranger and Colorado. Jump on the Australian Ford or Holden websites, a lot more configurations to choose from. While we mainly get the the upper end trim models only.

 

[DaveInDenver]

That's true. As much as I would like more payload at times, I don't think it would outweigh the want of a better ride 98% of the time. Apparently rings true for most of the buyer base. Smooth-riding vehicles that can go "anywhere." Which is why these are marketed as pretty much recreational vehicles than work trucks. I don't know anyone with a Tacoma that actually uses it like a work truck. Those that do, drive 3/4 tons.

Yeah, exactly. Most "work" trucks in the U.S. are full size. No argument there. I've probably always been an outlier in using my truck, but as a percentage of total buyers people like me were larger 20 years ago because fewer people bought them for daily drivers.

I'm talking about people who didn't really need a full size but still expected it to be a truck. My definition here is assuming it should endure being loaded all the time with payload, e.g. campers, tools, climbing gear. We used our small trucks the same way as full size just with relatively less crap. It's a different philosophy. Tacoma is a car that you can carry a fridge with once in a while while a Hilux (e.g. "truck") is assumed to do it all the time. I don't blame them for identifying the market and making just enough truck to satisfy it.

This is the same with 4Runners and Cruiser, though. We don't get the base GX models, just the cushy GXL and VX level stuff. They do the same thing as anyone else, strip what they don't need, reinforce where they need to, etc. They are just starting with basically a Prado while Tacoma people have to weld on frame plates/boxing/gussets and fix tears in sheet metal instead of starting with a Hilux like we used to. But SUVs aren't classed the same as pickups so I assume no reason to engineer a whole specific platform.

 

[Todd780]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the global Ranger looks a whole lot more BA and offroad-ready compared to the North American version, even without the steel bumper?

I'm glad the Ranger is finally coming back into the North American market, but why the hell didn't Ford just give us a slightly modified version of the tried-and-true global Ranger (similar to how Toyota gives us the 4runner and LC 200)?

I actually prefer the North American Ranger front end. But then I also prefer the Tacoma's looks to the HiLux's and the North American Colorado's front end to the Aussie one. So I guess I'm weird.

 

[Clutch]

Yup, which is the one major reason why I could never buy one. 14-15MPG.... Just can't stomach that, even with low gas prices. Plus the size thing....great for the handful of trips per year. Not so great for day to day stuff.

And all y'all going off about the bed size. Pffft. 5' is just fine by me. Carries my bikes. Hauls lumber every 8 years when I need it. Bags of fertilizer couple times a year. All of the monster 6" trout I catch. And a few leaves and/or snow on a daily basis. Nope, can't sleep in the back with the tailgate up. Good thing I'm not homeless. Huge load too big for 5' but just enough for 6'? Can't remember last time that's happened. It's usually a payload issue, not length.
I'm probably like 95% of the buyer market. Need 75% daily drive/people hauling capacity and 25% truck.

For me, about perfect.

Same here, couldn't live with that mileage either. I am currently ageraging 18-19.5. Don't want to go any lower than that.

I like a 6' bed, but in all reality could live with a 5'...like the 6' bed so I can sleep in it...but can't remember when I actually did that since I have a Wildernest. 6' does make it nice for a little extra room for when the camper is set up though. But for the actual hauling of ********, use the trailer.

This is quite literally a load of ********...for the garden. Which is what these little trucks are good for, home owner BS projects, runs to the hardware store, nursery, etc. But not for actual work.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I prefer the Hilux to the Tacoma, but only slightly until the 3rd gen. I think the current Tacoma is just too in your face "Grrrr". I do like the N.A. Ranger and I'm more or less indifferent to the Colorado.

 

[Clutch]

I actually prefer the North American Ranger front end. But then I also prefer the Tacoma's looks to the HiLux's and the North American Colorado's front end to the Aussie one. So I guess I'm weird.

About the same here, however like the previous model year HiLuxes over the Tacoma and current HiLux.

Like more subdued looks I guess.