I think that is the same hand......
I have the ability to defend myself; it is up to me to determine how and when to use that ability...
Do you feel the need to have a weapon when camping
- Thread starter Expedition Key
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I think that is the same hand......
I have the ability to defend myself; it is up to me to determine how and when to use that ability...
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I'm not! Have you watched the movie? From the previous thread where it was brought up, it seems most pro-gun Americans have not. Never gave it a chance. Watch the movie with an open mind, and you'll get where I'm coming from.
Yeah I know. It's from Wikipedia, the page about gun politics in Switzerland.
I guess I'm just not sure how me being in jail for killing somebody who may or may not have done us harm, is a better outcome? I have life insurance. I don't have jail insurance. Do they even sell that?
No, you're missing the point. We choose not to worry ourselves over things that are so ASTRONOMICALLY improbable. I have a greater chance of dying in a plane crash in Algonquin Park than I have of being murdered there. As far as my research shows, nobody has EVER been murdered in Algonquin Park in it's 120 year history. Yet several planes have gone down there.
Do you:
Smoke
Drink more than 2 drinks/week
Overweight
Get less than 3 hours of excercise per week
Driving a car older than ~2000 MY (when there was a revolution in car safety)
All of these things are MUCH more likely to harm you, than walking around unarmed. Yet most people do them daily, without thinking. Yet these are all things that could be prevented easily. So many people do one or more of these things, but they say "Oh, I've gotta carry a gun for protection."
I assume this is directed at me.
I would draw my own. Since I'm now decided to get bear spray, me or my wife would draw it too. If I was alone, I would run. Good luck catching me. Seriously.
C: Present my non-firearm weapon, and avert physical harm to everyone.
Why the assumption that any crazy guy is going to attack, and you're gonna lose? And if you have a gun, everything will turn out sunshine and roses.
Theives and rapists, generally don't want to be murderers, and will only do so if pressed.
You know... it's really hard to answer your question. Yeah, if I don't have a gun, my options are limited. There's going to be melee. I might lose.
But I don't worry about it. Why? I have better things to worry about. Every day, I could worry that it's much more likely, that somehow, my own gun could be used against me or mine. Whether by accident, theft, or whatever.
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
The great thing about "what ifs" is that they can be spun into any direction you want.
baca327
Adventurer
a few examples
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1evT61Qp_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ATkSHtSVQE&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS2CnfF7pEk&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGC_lcp-qKI&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfQc8-NyXZw&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQK2BscIg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1evT61Qp_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ATkSHtSVQE&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS2CnfF7pEk&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGC_lcp-qKI&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfQc8-NyXZw&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQK2BscIg
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Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
Those are interesting clips and I'm not devaluing them but... If someone were to make a news clip of just me it would start off something like, "Arizona man spends past 35 years traveling the backcountry and the far reaches of Asia, Africa, Europe, Alaska and beyond and survives with bulging photo album and brain full of fond memories."
baca327
Adventurer
I am sure that 67 year old man probably never fired a shot in self defense unless maybe a veteran but probably never defending his home. The day before his may have said "Former Vietnam veteran spends past 50 years exploring backcountry". The thing is you just dont know someone could carry their whole lives and never use it but you never know what will happen or who it will happen too. All those people are all differnet from pregnant women to senior citizens.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Exactly, I'm going to fire up the "Way Back Machine" and go back to page 5 of this thread.
I guess we're at an impasse here.
Some live in fear, and carry a gun for protection, and deride the unarmed with questions about how they will defend themselves. To the others, they're unconcerned with the question of how to defend themselves, they're not afraid of the improbable.
Both are most likely to die by natural causes.
I mean, geez... I race a motorcycle. Really, is the astronomical chance of being assulted worth worrying about? Wouldn't it make much more sense to stop racing motorcycles? Wouldn't that be better for my family?
What I did do, due to my father's medical history, I got a colonoscopy at 30, and started excercising regularly. I've lost weight, blood pressure is 120/60, resting heart rate is 50 bpm, and I can run uphill 5 miles in 30 minutes without stopping.
That's what *I* do to protect my family.
I guess we're at an impasse here.
Some live in fear, and carry a gun for protection, and deride the unarmed with questions about how they will defend themselves. To the others, they're unconcerned with the question of how to defend themselves, they're not afraid of the improbable.
Both are most likely to die by natural causes.
I mean, geez... I race a motorcycle. Really, is the astronomical chance of being assulted worth worrying about? Wouldn't it make much more sense to stop racing motorcycles? Wouldn't that be better for my family?
What I did do, due to my father's medical history, I got a colonoscopy at 30, and started excercising regularly. I've lost weight, blood pressure is 120/60, resting heart rate is 50 bpm, and I can run uphill 5 miles in 30 minutes without stopping.
That's what *I* do to protect my family.
If the only place you camp is a "secure" location, then fine, but I would wager that that is not the case.... Based on my research, nobody has ever broken into my home. Does that mean that it couldn't happen?
FYI, I don't do any of the listed activities except drive the Cruiser.....Based on my own experience and crash pictures over on Mud, It don't think it is lacking in the safety Dept. I haven't driven the T100 in three years.
I won't ridicule you for choosing the bear spray. It is a viable defensive alternative. Like everything else, it has its limitations as far as wind, multiple assailants, and range, but it is not a bad choice.
How does choice C avert harm to everyone? Unless you bear spray somebody and then tie them up, any confrontation will result in physical harm. If you don't detain the assailant, they will come back to get revenge for you spraying them....
I don't think that every crazy guy will attack, but if I don't assume that they will, I am leaving myself open for attack. As mentioned earlier in the thread, predatory humans are like other predators, they prey on the weak, easy targets. Make yourself a hard target and they will move along. "Be polite to everyone you meet but have a plan to kill them"
I don't worry about it either. I have the means to deal with it close at hand. Pint didn't worry about it before. Then it happened to him. Now that he has a weapon, he still doesn't have to worry. It really comes down to responsible ownership and responsible conduct. If conduct yourself responsibly, most of your concerns become non issues.
One other thing, after discounting the statistical possibility of an attack are you seriously going to say that you don't want a gun due to the fact that it could be used against you? If the odds are so against you getting attacked anyway, why is a follow on variable even a consideration?
baca327
Adventurer
It is not fear my friend it is logic. I pray that you never become a news headline and that you never regret not owning and learning to use one. I and many others like to have that option if needed, some may be fearful but I like many others are not. Like others have said before a firearm is not always needed resolve a situation matter of fact 95% can be resolved without. I agree you are very brave to leave your life and life of those that depend on you to probability and statistics.....
Hilldweller
SE Expedition Society
I was thinking of the French & Indian War (Guerre de Sept Ans); we're still cranky about that one...
baca327
Adventurer
I run 3 miles and lift weights every morning. Does that make me faster than a speeding bullet nope, and no way do I ever wanna try...
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Because, it seems to me from my research, that the chance of my own gun harming me or my own, is higher than the probability of me ever being assaulted. The very things needed to render the gun safe and legal, also limit it's usefulness. As I said before:
"Excuse Mr. Badguy, can you please wait while I unlock and load my gun?"
But nothing actually happened to him. We're only guessing at what might have happened if the other truck hadn't shown up. We're only guessing at what might have happened had he had a gun.
Based on my research, no planes have ever crashed into my home. Does that mean it couldn't happen?
Should I live in a bunker? Where do you draw the line on defending yourself against the improbably? I'm sure you'll answer "Somewhere between carrying a gun, and living in a bunker." But the reality is, every day, you take greater chances than walking around unarmed.
It's not logical to fear the improbable!
baca327
Adventurer
I'm done. If you dont carry thats fine its your choice if you do thats fine and thats also your choice. If you dont and never have learned to use a firearm dont be afraid to try cause someone says its a bad idea, classes are recommended. Just remember the bad guys dont care how big you are what kinda shape your all they care about is there own preservation and if that means your life that is cost they are willing to take. I have only stated the reasons I carry a firearm and I hope they are helpful.
Fireman78
Expedition Leader
You may not have been reading what some folks are posting. It has nothing to do with fear. I have not attempted to deride you and if I have done so I apologize. I do try to make people think about how simply having a gun around can benefit them. I am not afraid of the improbable, but I carry tools for the "just in case" Ie. fire extinguisher, spare tire, insurance, etc. Why guns are such a big issue, I may never know. They are simply a tool.
Yes--Quitting motorcycle racing would probably be a smart choice. My dad made that choice when my oldest brother was born. As a result, I have had the good fortune to be able to start a family and have my dad around if I needed advice. My kids know their Grandfather and love him dearly. In my opinion, you should do the things that you love, but if those things have an inordinate risk associated with them, it is selfish to continue. I want my kids to be able to have their Dad around for advice. I have only really gotten to know my dad on a personal level in the last five years. I want my grandkids to have a grandfather to spoil them. Any choice that I make that makes that outcome less likely bears careful consideration before proceeding. You can't live life in fear, but you can mitigate the chances of some extraneous activity ruining your family's lives....
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