"Double down or fold" - Part 2 ...
- Thread starter Martinjmpr
- Start date
1stDeuce
Explorer
What about the double down thing? You've technically trippled down now, right? 
I don't remember exactly what I said in your previous thread, but it was probably something like stick with what you have if you like it. A newer truck is going to cost you a LOT more than $3500 a year... And you now have a NEW trans, which was probably a good move, even if you did pay more than you really wanted.
Switching to a newer used vehicle is always a gamble, since you have no idea how the previous owner treated it. In my mind, you simply got unlucky with a rebuilt transmission. Move on.
Side note, it's odd that you had a sudden pump failure... They usually don't just fail without warning. The seals can go out, causing fluid to leak out and eventually running the trans dry or low and killing the pump, but even with the seal leaking, you get symptoms like hard shifting and noise before the pump fails. I'd be curious to know exactly what happened to cause the pump to fail... Transmission pumps are not exactly complicated...
Hopefully the transmission shop flushed the cooler loop well when they installed the new trans. I think you've got plenty of life left in the truck, and if it's getting the job done, I'd consider the new trans an investment in longevity. Adding the cooler was a giant step in the right direction.
If you do want to consider something newer, I'd do yourself a big favor and look into something with a turbo, and with at least a 6 speed trans. 4 speeds is fine for flatlands, but here in Colorado, you're really hurting for gear selection, especially with a non-turbo motor. I'm not a Ford guy, but even I'd consider an Ecoboost. I think having the turbo and a 6+ speed trans would make for much more relaxed towing through the mountains.
The idea of going to a 3/4 ton is only good if you go new enough to get a 6 speed. My 6.0L 2500 with a 4L80E screams it's brains out in 2nd and 3rd when I tow with it through the mountains. No different than your 5.3L I'm guessing. The 6-speed trucks I've been in do the same towing with much less fuss. A truck with a turbo will be even better, since it'll make up for the loss of power at altitude that a N/A engine has.
You might keep an eye out for a Ram 1500 with the ecodiesel. The Ford Ecoboost is another option. A used Colorado Duramax is fairly pricey still, but they might come down in a few years. If you're not afraid of Nissan's, the Titan diesel is also an option. That keeps you in a half ton, more or less but gets you a truck better suited for towing in the mountains than your 'burb.
I don't remember exactly what I said in your previous thread, but it was probably something like stick with what you have if you like it. A newer truck is going to cost you a LOT more than $3500 a year... And you now have a NEW trans, which was probably a good move, even if you did pay more than you really wanted.
Switching to a newer used vehicle is always a gamble, since you have no idea how the previous owner treated it. In my mind, you simply got unlucky with a rebuilt transmission. Move on.
Side note, it's odd that you had a sudden pump failure... They usually don't just fail without warning. The seals can go out, causing fluid to leak out and eventually running the trans dry or low and killing the pump, but even with the seal leaking, you get symptoms like hard shifting and noise before the pump fails. I'd be curious to know exactly what happened to cause the pump to fail... Transmission pumps are not exactly complicated...
Hopefully the transmission shop flushed the cooler loop well when they installed the new trans. I think you've got plenty of life left in the truck, and if it's getting the job done, I'd consider the new trans an investment in longevity. Adding the cooler was a giant step in the right direction.
If you do want to consider something newer, I'd do yourself a big favor and look into something with a turbo, and with at least a 6 speed trans. 4 speeds is fine for flatlands, but here in Colorado, you're really hurting for gear selection, especially with a non-turbo motor. I'm not a Ford guy, but even I'd consider an Ecoboost. I think having the turbo and a 6+ speed trans would make for much more relaxed towing through the mountains.
The idea of going to a 3/4 ton is only good if you go new enough to get a 6 speed. My 6.0L 2500 with a 4L80E screams it's brains out in 2nd and 3rd when I tow with it through the mountains. No different than your 5.3L I'm guessing. The 6-speed trucks I've been in do the same towing with much less fuss. A truck with a turbo will be even better, since it'll make up for the loss of power at altitude that a N/A engine has.
You might keep an eye out for a Ram 1500 with the ecodiesel. The Ford Ecoboost is another option. A used Colorado Duramax is fairly pricey still, but they might come down in a few years. If you're not afraid of Nissan's, the Titan diesel is also an option. That keeps you in a half ton, more or less but gets you a truck better suited for towing in the mountains than your 'burb.
Todd780
OverCamper
That is an interesting option. Will Ram be producing them again soon? I would imagine so since GM and Ford both offer diesels in their 1/2 tons. I think it's a big price bump though.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Without quoting individual messages, I'll respond to some of the above:
WRT having a second "daily driver", while it's true that there are some "non economic benefits" to having a 2nd vehicle, those are more than offset by the "non economic costs" the biggest of which is where to park the damn thing at our new house. When we moved here in 2017 we had, between us, 4 cars, 2 trailers and 2 motorcycles. It was a real PITA. At our old house in Englewood we had a 100' driveway and an oversized 2 car garage and lived in a non-HOA neighborhood so parking wasn't an issue and we had plenty of room. Now we're in an HOA neighborhood that requires us to park the trailer in the back yard behind a fence, and won't let us gravel the entire side yard for parking (they would let us pave it, but not gravel. Yes, I know, HOAs suck, etc etc,) So space is not a trivial concern. Nor is maintenance, registration and insurance costs. And again, this is not coming from opinion, it's coming from my real world experience of almost 7 years. BTDT.
My point being, it simply makes no sense for me to have a 2nd daily driver. Wife doesn't have a regular job so if it REALLY comes down to a $$ crunch due to fuel costs, I can drive her CR-V (25 mpg) to work and let her have the big truck if she needs to run errands during the day. I also have 2 motorcycles and there's no reason I can't ride those to work if the weather permits (which it often does.)
In terms of MPG, it seems that there has been an overall increase across-the-board since my '04 'Burb was minted. Half tons seem to be turning out numbers in the high teens or even low 20's on the highway. 3/4 tons seem to be in the 10 - 15 range. However, given that my current average MPG on the burb is about 12.3 (per Fuelly, which I use religiously) I'm wondering if a modern 3/4 ton (say a gasser Ram 2500 or Silverado 2500) wouldn't be about the same or perhaps only slightly worse.
In fact, since Fuelly keeps track of things like total miles, cost-per-gallon and MPG I have a pretty decent way of calculating what a decrease of 1.5 MPG would do.
In the almost 3 1/2 years since I bought the Suburban (bought in mid-December of 2015), I've logged 45,678 miles on Fuelly. I have consumed 3,713 gallons of fuel for an average of 12.3 MPG (BTW my miles are adjusted to show "actual" rather than "odometer" since I'm running oversize tires. "Odometer mileage" is about 17% less.)
My total cost for that fuel has been $8190.17 which averages out to $2.21/gallon (I'm a miser when it comes to gas and I use Gasbuddy.com to shop around for the best price. I also use E-85 if the price difference is more than $0.70/gallon which is my calculated break-even point.)
Using those numbers, a decrease to an average of 10.8 MPG would increase fuel consumption to 4,229 gallons for a cost (using the same average price) of $9,347, a difference of $1157.00 n 42 months or $27.07 per month. Realistically, that's not bad and the extra capability probably more than makes up for it (another nice bonus of the 3/4 ton is a much larger fuel tank.)
WRT having a second "daily driver", while it's true that there are some "non economic benefits" to having a 2nd vehicle, those are more than offset by the "non economic costs" the biggest of which is where to park the damn thing at our new house. When we moved here in 2017 we had, between us, 4 cars, 2 trailers and 2 motorcycles. It was a real PITA. At our old house in Englewood we had a 100' driveway and an oversized 2 car garage and lived in a non-HOA neighborhood so parking wasn't an issue and we had plenty of room. Now we're in an HOA neighborhood that requires us to park the trailer in the back yard behind a fence, and won't let us gravel the entire side yard for parking (they would let us pave it, but not gravel. Yes, I know, HOAs suck, etc etc,) So space is not a trivial concern. Nor is maintenance, registration and insurance costs. And again, this is not coming from opinion, it's coming from my real world experience of almost 7 years. BTDT.
My point being, it simply makes no sense for me to have a 2nd daily driver. Wife doesn't have a regular job so if it REALLY comes down to a $$ crunch due to fuel costs, I can drive her CR-V (25 mpg) to work and let her have the big truck if she needs to run errands during the day. I also have 2 motorcycles and there's no reason I can't ride those to work if the weather permits (which it often does.)
In terms of MPG, it seems that there has been an overall increase across-the-board since my '04 'Burb was minted. Half tons seem to be turning out numbers in the high teens or even low 20's on the highway. 3/4 tons seem to be in the 10 - 15 range. However, given that my current average MPG on the burb is about 12.3 (per Fuelly, which I use religiously) I'm wondering if a modern 3/4 ton (say a gasser Ram 2500 or Silverado 2500) wouldn't be about the same or perhaps only slightly worse.
In fact, since Fuelly keeps track of things like total miles, cost-per-gallon and MPG I have a pretty decent way of calculating what a decrease of 1.5 MPG would do.
In the almost 3 1/2 years since I bought the Suburban (bought in mid-December of 2015), I've logged 45,678 miles on Fuelly. I have consumed 3,713 gallons of fuel for an average of 12.3 MPG (BTW my miles are adjusted to show "actual" rather than "odometer" since I'm running oversize tires. "Odometer mileage" is about 17% less.)
My total cost for that fuel has been $8190.17 which averages out to $2.21/gallon (I'm a miser when it comes to gas and I use Gasbuddy.com to shop around for the best price. I also use E-85 if the price difference is more than $0.70/gallon which is my calculated break-even point.)
Using those numbers, a decrease to an average of 10.8 MPG would increase fuel consumption to 4,229 gallons for a cost (using the same average price) of $9,347, a difference of $1157.00 n 42 months or $27.07 per month. Realistically, that's not bad and the extra capability probably more than makes up for it (another nice bonus of the 3/4 ton is a much larger fuel tank.)
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Of course, your right and the "short term" plan (probably for the remainder of this calendar year) is to keep what I have with the shiny new transmission in it.
As I said to my wife, if you figure an average car payment at $500/month (for a new truck I think that's correct or maybe even on the low side!) then my transmission cost me the equivalent of 7 monthly payments. Not fun, but not a world-ending disaster either (especially considering that I haven't ever made a payment on this truck in 3 1/2 years.)
Even if you throw in the extra towing cost, extra lodging cost (2 nights at a KOA) and other incidentals, it didn't exceed $4k. So in strictly economic terms, I could afford to put a new transmission in this truck every year and still be ahead of the curve in terms of cost.
But of course, there are non-economic costs I have to factor in, too: The loss of time, the headache, the hassle, and the uncertainty of not knowing if, or when, the trans will go out again is something I have to consider as well.
1stDeuce
Explorer
I am assuming Martin is going to pick up another used vehicle, not new. Used Ecodoesels are certainly around. I didn't realize that the Titan diesel didn't release till 2018. That might be a bit $pendy yet...
Ducky's Dad
Explorer
Get a Ford F150 3.5 Ecoboost...
I wouldn't. OP says he wants to do it once and do it right. EcoBoost is complicated and probably fine if you plan to turn the truck over every three to five years, but seems risky for a long-term buy. I keep my trucks a long time (current fleet is 21, 14, 11 years old) and I wouldn't want to deal with turbo problems on an old gasser. The aluminum body panels are another issue, easy to replace but almost impossible to repair.
I wouldn't. OP says he wants to do it once and do it right. EcoBoost is complicated and probably fine if you plan to turn the truck over every three to five years, but seems risky for a long-term buy. I keep my trucks a long time (current fleet is 21, 14, 11 years old) and I wouldn't want to deal with turbo problems on an old gasser. The aluminum body panels are another issue, easy to replace but almost impossible to repair.
1stDeuce
Explorer
Yes, but you've already dealt with ALL of those issues. And due to you buying a new trans rather than rebuilt, the if/when has been mitigated far better than buying another used vehicle with unknown maintenance or use history... Honestly, if you're watching trans temp now, this new 4L60E should last well beyond another 100k miles, even with mountains and towing...
And your average mileage is downright horrible. You must not do much highway running when you're not towing. I just sold a 2004 Silverado that had averaged 18.3mpg on the display over the last decade of it's life. But I'm sure it ran a lot of highway miles. As far as I could tell, the engine and trans were original, and it was showing ~327k miles. It ran and drove like a new truck...
I really think you just had some bad luck. Hopefully that is all behind you now!!
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
And what is this based on? How exactly is the EcoBoost complicated?
Last time I looked the EcoBoost had fewer moving parts than a V8, used less fuel, makes more power, and has one hell of a bottom end in it.
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
Yeah... you don't need a 3/4 ton. Buying a 3/4 ton would be a complete waste of money.
Any 1/2 ton will tow that trailer with zero problems and do so for less $ per mile driven.
Any 1/2 ton will tow that trailer with zero problems and do so for less $ per mile driven.
Not a complete waste of money at all. Much more capable than a 1/2 ton and close to the same price if you shop around.
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
No, if you don't need one they are a complete waste of money. Even if it cost the exact same as a 1/2 ton to purchase they cost much more per mile they are driven. Literailly every aspect of their ownership is more expensive. The Gov't agency I work for has a fleet of trucks and the 3/4 tons are more expensive to operate than the 1/2 tons.
Besides, today's 1/2 tons do the job of yesterday's 3/4 ton trucks, while riding better and getting far better fuel economy.
ExplorerTom
Explorer
I am not surprised to hear that your Chevy transmission went out (again). That’s just what they do.
I’m am however, surprised to hear that Suburbans have odometers. I thought they just had transmission counters. You own a 2004 Chevy that’s on its 3rd transmission (that you know of). From there we can all speculate on how many miles it has. The fact that the odometer doesn’t start with a “2” with 3 transmissions is almost criminal.
You installed a new BIG cooler, eh? I haven’t seen the thread about it. That’s good, but there is one other thing you could do to reduce the strain on the driveline: regear the axles. You’re pulling that trailer up into the thin air, up steep grades, with larger diameter tires, stuff loaded in the truck and in the trailer...... if you bump up gear sizes a couple steps, your truck would almost literally thank you.
I’m am however, surprised to hear that Suburbans have odometers. I thought they just had transmission counters. You own a 2004 Chevy that’s on its 3rd transmission (that you know of). From there we can all speculate on how many miles it has. The fact that the odometer doesn’t start with a “2” with 3 transmissions is almost criminal.
You installed a new BIG cooler, eh? I haven’t seen the thread about it. That’s good, but there is one other thing you could do to reduce the strain on the driveline: regear the axles. You’re pulling that trailer up into the thin air, up steep grades, with larger diameter tires, stuff loaded in the truck and in the trailer...... if you bump up gear sizes a couple steps, your truck would almost literally thank you.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Pretty much zero highway driving when not towing.
Basically the truck gets used in two ways:
1. Hauling my butt to and from work (10 miles each way) and occasional errands around town if we need to pick up something big or heavy or if the wife is busy with her car. So this is all suburban, stop-and-go driving with a maximum speed of maybe 50 mph.
For routine around-town driving with the wife (say going out to dinner or a movie or going shopping) the 'Burb stays in the driveway and we take the wife's 2016 CR-V that gets an honest 24 - 27 MPG around town. It's also easier to park.
2. Hauling the trailer (3500lbs full with the truck also full of gear) to campgrounds anywhere from 50 to 1000 miles from home, often on steep uphills and against heavy cross/sidewinds.
There is SOME highway driving - for example, once we get to a campground and set up, we will then drive the truck around. When that happens, mileage often jumps to 15 mpg or better. But if it's either stop-and-go city driving or pulling the trailer, MPG in the 10 - 12 range is pretty normal for me.
