Fiberglass M416/M100 Military-style Trailer Tub Kit

[TheJosh]

It is sooooo nice dealing with all new parts rather than trying to restore some rusty, dented old thing. And the fiberglass parts will never rust .

That's part of the fun in it for some like myself...

 

[jscherb]

Another drawing showing what the fiberglass hard tonneau design looks like:

Any more comments on the fiberglass cover design? Should I build it just as pictured?

The unretouched photo with the soft tonneau...

 

[/dev/ram]

I like the length-wise split as it would allow me to open one side for my kitchen setup. In thinking more generally, I can see advantages to each, particularly with a tailgate - can't recall the details on the lid lip in terms of opening the tailgate with the length-wise split. One advantage of the length-wise is allowing for long objects to stay in place on one side while opening the other - like an OzTent or fishing poles.

Any chance you could mold as four pieces which could be bolted together as needed to create whatever split desired? Seems like even as two sections, we will need to think thru the hinge options depending on whether we bolt the two into one.

Really cool being a part of the design discussion!

 

[jscherb]

I like the length-wise split as it would allow me to open one side for my kitchen setup. In thinking more generally, I can see advantages to each, particularly with a tailgate - can't recall the details on the lid lip in terms of opening the tailgate with the length-wise split. One advantage of the length-wise is allowing for long objects to stay in place on one side while opening the other - like an OzTent or fishing poles.

Any chance you could mold as four pieces which could be bolted together as needed to create whatever split desired? Seems like even as two sections, we will need to think thru the hinge options depending on whether we bolt the two into one.

Really cool being a part of the design discussion!

Thanks for the input! Making it in 4 pieces is a nice idea, and there's no technical or structural reason it couldn't be done, but there is a price reason - each individual part that has to be molded adds to the cost. In fact, making it in two pieces as I plan is more expensive than making it in one piece, but the difference is more than made up for because the two-piece cover can ship UPS Ground instead of truck freight.

Also, if the design were to have the angles on the front and rear, then two different molds would be required. The two-piece cover only requires one mold - both halves can be made in the same mold.

But I'll give it some thought, I like the idea.

 

[bluejeep]

Jeff, I am a loyal follower, but had an idea for consideration and didn't want to go back thru all the pages to see if it had been considered. If it has, I know it will be recorded in your brain files.
The idea is having the top split (either front to back or side to side) and hinged along the outer edge, instead of along the centerline split, so it can rotate open 180 degree, and the underside (which is now the 'top') be used as a surface for table, cooking, repairs, work surface, etc. Of course the loading of 'stuff' in or out of the trailer would have to be via the side that does not have the 'table' hanging open from it.

Taking this 1 step further, perhaps the 2 halves can be on slide mechanisms, and open by pulling on them (so they slide in the horizontal plane), rather than rotating them.

 

[jscherb]

Jeff, I am a loyal follower, but had an idea for consideration and didn't want to go back thru all the pages to see if it had been considered. If it has, I know it will be recorded in your brain files.
The idea is having the top split (either front to back or side to side) and hinged along the outer edge, instead of along the centerline split, so it can rotate open 180 degree, and the underside (which is now the 'top') be used as a surface for table, cooking, repairs, work surface, etc. Of course the loading of 'stuff' in or out of the trailer would have to be via the side that does not have the 'table' hanging open from it.

Yes, that idea has come up before, here's a concept drawing:

They would be handy tables, but the reason I'm not a fan of hingeing them that way is that it would make access to the storage inside the tub very difficult - you'd have to reach over the two-foot width of the open cover, or from the other side, reach over the two-foot width of the closed cover to get at the inside.

I like this table idea though:

Taking this 1 step further, perhaps the 2 halves can be on slide mechanisms, and open by pulling on them (so they slide in the horizontal plane), rather than rotating them.

I think that would cause the same issue with access to storage inside the tub, wouldn't it?

 

[jscherb]

A few more concept drawings of the hard cover design...

In the drawings below, the two halves are bolted together to form a one-piece cover, and configured to open from the side:

 

[jscherb]

Here are some drawings showing how the cover could open in halves:

Both sides could open, but only one side would open at a time.

 

[/dev/ram]

Jeff, forgot to add that I personally like the flat front/rear vs. the bevel but that may just be me. I think it's fine either way.
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Another question: in your option to bolt together the crosswise split with a hinge at the side, could the fastening system be more flexible such that one could choose whether to open the entire lid or just one half, while out on the trail/during use?
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At least for me, that would give me all the flexibility needed for long objects on top of the top, easy access to things inside, half-sized cargo rack over one section, etc. In my mind, I'm seeing some sort of track with a lip that bolts to one piece, creating a place for a water proofing seal of some kind as well as some structural support for the other half, but have no idea if such exists in a pre-fab form. If so, it might be stiff enough to not need any fasteners beyond the clamping/locking mechanisms.

Just a thought, and you've put many more hours of thought into these types of designs! In the end, my guess is that simply having a top of any kind available in the marketplace for all us old M416'ers will be welcomed enthusiastically!

 

[jscherb]

Another question: in your option to bolt together the crosswise split with a hinge at the side, could the fastening system be more flexible such that one could choose whether to open the entire lid or just one half, while out on the trail/during use?
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At least for me, that would give me all the flexibility needed for long objects on top of the top, easy access to things inside, half-sized cargo rack over one section, etc. In my mind, I'm seeing some sort of track with a lip that bolts to one piece, creating a place for a water proofing seal of some kind as well as some structural support for the other half, but have no idea if such exists in a pre-fab form. If so, it might be stiff enough to not need any fasteners beyond the clamping/locking mechanisms.

So you want to open it like this?

That poses a number of design and engineering challenges...

1. There might have to be two separate sets of gas cylinders or props, one set for each half of the cover? You'd want one on each side of the parts that open, so with two parts opening, you'd need some near the center of the tub (you'd probably want two set in the center-opening configuration shown below as well, so this wouldn't be a cost increase over the center-hinged configuration, but it would be a cost increase over the side-hinged single-piece configuration.

2. The seal between the two halves, in the case where they open as below, is a pretty simple compression seal. Hinging them as above requires a different type of seal surface, especially if the idea was to be able to open both sides independently. Can't have a seal on the rear half that goes over the front half, because then you couldn't open the front half without the rear being open. A separate seal piece could be installed under the covers, the covers would close down against it, but that seal piece would have to go across the tub, which may or may not be desirable in terms of cargo space, and it would be another part, which would add cost.

3. I don't know how you'd latch the two sides together securely enough to be able to open them together.

So I guess the question would be: is the idea of opening them one side at a time in the side-hinged configuration above so much preferable to the ability to open them as shown below to make it worth the extra complication and cost involved?

Just a thought, and you've put many more hours of thought into these types of designs! In the end, my guess is that simply having a top of any kind available in the marketplace for all us old M416'ers will be welcomed enthusiastically!

One of my key goals for this cover design is affordability, I'm trying to make the fiberglass parts and the hardware as simple as possible to keep costs down so that as many people as possible could afford a cover like this. I'm confident this design could be done pretty affordably, and since being two pieces it's small enough to ship UPS Ground, getting it delivered would also be far less expensive than the truck freight than a one piece cover would require.

 

[jscherb]

Jeff, forgot to add that I personally like the flat front/rear vs. the bevel but that may just be me. I think it's fine either way.

I could go either way on the ends, angled or flat, I haven't decided which style I like better yet. Both styles have been done before, below left to right:

- Adventure Trailers Chaser trailer, flat ends.
- Sierra4x4, flat ends.
- Cascadia Vehicle Tents, angled ends.

All of the ones below are one-piece, so they don't offer the option of opening in halves like the fiberglass design I've been working on.

I'm hoping there's enough input to the question here that a consensus develops to help with the final decision.

 

[markrez]

I could go either way on the ends, angled or flat, I haven't decided which style I like better yet.
I'm hoping there's enough input to the question here that a consensus develops to help with the final decision.

I personally like the flat style, it just looks better to me.

 

[/dev/ram]

So you want to open it like this?

That poses a number of design and engineering challenges...
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[...]
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One of my key goals for this cover design is affordability, I'm trying to make the fiberglass parts and the hardware as simple as possible to keep costs down so that as many people as possible could afford a cover like this. I'm confident this design could be done pretty affordably, and since being two pieces it's small enough to ship UPS Ground, getting it delivered would also be far less expensive than the truck freight than a one piece cover would require.

LOL! Yea, I'm good at ideas that cost more money, are more complicated to build, and take more time - just look at what I've thrown into a $250 trailer over the last 15 years... but you got the idea!
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In the end, I'm partial to the lengthwise split (left below):
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but others should pitch in too.

 

[jscherb]

LOL! Yea, I'm good at ideas that cost more money, are more complicated to build, and take more time - just look at what I've thrown into a $250 trailer over the last 15 years... but you got the idea!

I do like your ideas, it's just that some of them compete with my goal of designing something that could be as affordable as possible if it ever became a product on the market .

In the end, I'm partial to the lengthwise split (left below):
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View attachment 158174
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but others should pitch in too.

At this point, since everywhere I've shown this nobody's come up with a reason the lengthwise split would be preferable to the crosswise split, I think the decision is pretty much made to do the split crosswise (right photo above). The remaining open question is whether to put the angles on the front and back matching the sides as I've shown in the last day or two in the white concept drawings, or have the front and back be straight as in the green one in the drawing above.

 

[jscherb]

So far all of the photos of the prototype tub have been with an aftermarket fiberglass Jeep CJ-style tailgate with no logo:

Any Jeep CJ/YJ/TJ tailgate can be fitted to this tub, and this past weekend before I disassembled the tub for painting, I decided to try on a bunch of different tailgates to see how they might look.

Some people might want a Jeep logo, this is a factory Jeep CJ tailgate:

Or if you don't want something that looks like a Jeep tailgate at all, the Dinoot smooth tailgate can be installed:

It's painted gloss black because it was installed on the prototype Dinoot trailer. In the photo above it's configured as a drop-down, but the Dinoot smooth tailgate can also be installed as a side-swing.

And speaking of side-swing tailgates, a YJ/TJ side-swing tailgate could be installed...

Notice though that the lower hinge sticks out past the tub side, if anyone's interested I can post a simple solution for that. I doubt many people would want to install TJ/YJ side/swing tailgates on a tub like this though.

This last one is a custom Jeep-logo drop-down tailgate with an external lock and latch; it's designed to go on a TJ/LJ/YJ Wrangler: