Future Toyota 4x4s for the US Market

[1911]

Long wheelbase 4door FJ = 4runner

Bingo; same suspension, mostly the same drive train.

I am surprised Toyota hasn't made a vehicle to compete against the Wrangler, like a modern FJ40 with 2 and 4 door options think it would sell quite well. Maybe it would pull away too many sales from the 4Runner?

IMO, Toyota makes too many overlapping 4WD SUV models already. And like it or not, the FJC is the closest they're ever going to get to a modern 40-series. To sell enough of those to be worth making, they obviously believed they had to pussify them and sell it as a styling exercise.

CAFE requirements will finish them off. Too bad-so sad.

Absolutely; those and ever-tightening emissions and safety standards. Big Brother knows what is best for us.

... Otherwise I wouldn't drive a basically stock 1991 truck.

Hate to break this to you Dave, but anyone who drives a Hilux with a Wildernest is pretty well-defined as a Luddite in the first place!

Salesmen. Ugh. But you gotta deal with them when you are browsing ...

Did I tell you about the time a few years ago that I drove my 40 to a large Toyota dealer in the next county, shopping for a car for one of my daughters? Parked right in front of the showroom. Two or three salespeople (one was a woman FWIW) came out to see; one walks all the way around my truck at least twice (it's reasonably stock-looking and has all the original "Land Cruiser" badges on it) and exclaims: "I didn't know Toyota made a jeep!".


Back on topic, I like diesels and would pay a premium to be able to buy a new Toyota 4WD truck with one. The extra mpg would not be a big factor for me (I bought a Jetta TDI pretty much for that) - the incredible torque at low rpm for wheeling and the even better longevity would both be more important to me than economy in a truck. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for Toyota to offer one here in the U.S. of A. for the reasons already mentioned above.

 

[Clutch]

IMO, Toyota makes too many overlapping 4WD SUV models already. And like it or not, the FJC is the closest they're ever going to get to a modern 40-series. To sell enough of those to be worth making, they obviously believed they had to pussify them and sell it as a styling exercise.

.

I believe you're right, but the FJ hasn't been a big seller, and it was nearly axed. I do wonder if they went the way of the JK if sales would of been better.

Yeah, Toyota does make too many overlapping SUV's but that is Jeep's entire lineup, and their JK does very well. Just think 40 series styling on a 70 series chassis...would give the JK a run for it's money.

 

[1911]

I believe you're right, but the FJ hasn't been a big seller, and it was nearly axed. I do wonder if they went the way of the JK if sales would of been better.

Yeah, Toyota does make too many overlapping SUV's but that is Jeep's entire lineup, and their JK does very well. Just think 40 series styling on a 70 series chassis...would give the JK a run for it's money.

I would LOVE to see any 70-series chassis available here; existing body/bed styles ok with me. I would be the first in line at the closest dealer to buy one. But by the time they modified it to pass our safety and emissions standards it would be too expensive for all but a few enthusiasts like you and I, which I'm pretty sure is Toyota's marketing department's studied conclusion too.

 

[Clutch]

I would LOVE to see any 70-series chassis available here; existing body/bed styles ok with me. I would be the first in line at the closest dealer to buy one. But by the time they modified it to pass our safety and emissions standards it would be too expensive for all but a few enthusiasts like you and I, which I'm pretty sure is Toyota's marketing department's studied conclusion too.

I am thinking 40 series styling would grab the want-a-bees...:ylsmoke: I like the current styling as well.

as you said, of course it will never happen.

 

[nickw]

To play devils advocate on a few issues...

1) If toyota did decide to sell a revised FJ40 styled vehicle to compete against the Wrangler it would be significantly more $$. I think Toyota would price the majority of the people that buy Wranglers out of the market...guys in their early to mid 20's. Remember, the original FJ40's did not sell well. They were considered red-headed step childs at the time, gaining cult status many years afterwards (at least in the US). People thought they were overpriced 'Jeeps".

2) Diesel reliability - I think this has to be the biggest farce/misconception going around now. With all the stuff they put on diesels now, I would argue the well proven gas engines are more reliable. The old low reving, single wire engines such as the 3B's, 1HZ's, 12ht's, etc are generally no more (1HZ's in some markets). In their place you have diesels that have multiple sensors, particulate filters, high pressure injection systems and many points of failure.

3) Remember, the 4.0 used in the Tacoma is the SAME engine Toyota uses as a gas option in their new HD live axle land cruiser 70's.

4) Get a base model Tacoma w/5 spd, 4 cylinder, vinyl floors, manual windows/locks you have yourself 95% of a Hilux minus the HD frame and manual T-case. Or if you have the cash, get a 4runner SR5/Trail...95% the same as a Prado, 4.0L engine used in over sease cruisers and a manual T-case.

4) MPG argument is valid - I own a VW Sportwagen TDI, it's nice not having to fill-up. But I paid for it up front - $5k or so.

5) Will all that being said, I think Toyota should not import LC70's as much as they should at least make them legal to own in the states as a niche vehicle. If you want, you have to buy it over seas, figure out shipping, payment, etc.....but you'd be able to register it. I think the only thing keeping cruisers out is they haven't been through the testing procedures with EPA etc., my understanding is they generally meet or exceeed the US emission and safety standards. If they sold more the a certain number this way (doubtful) they would have a good litmus test of the market and could officially import them.

 

[1911]

To play devils advocate on a few issues...

1) If toyota did decide to sell a revised FJ40 styled vehicle to compete against the Wrangler it would be significantly more $$.

Doubtless it would, because I don't think at this stage that Toyota could or would build "down" to Chrysler/Fiat quality.

2) Diesel reliability - I think this has to be the biggest farce/misconception going around now. With all the stuff they put on diesels now, I would argue the well proven gas engines are more reliable. The old low reving, single wire engines such as the 3B's, 1HZ's, 12ht's, etc are generally no more (1HZ's in some markets). In their place you have diesels that have multiple sensors, particulate filters, high pressure injection systems and many points of failure.

Excellent point. I only have 55,000 miles on my Jetta TDI; it has been fine so far but I'm withholding judgement until it's run a lot longer. On the other hand, I've got a 1GR-FE approaching 140,000 miles and zero repairs that still doesn't leak or burn a single drop. Then there's my 2F's, one with an unknown number of miles that doesn't leak a drop and burns very little, and I drive it across the western U.S. at least once a year.

 

[Clutch]

To play devils advocate on a few issues...

1) If toyota did decide to sell a revised FJ40 styled vehicle to compete against the Wrangler it would be significantly more $$. I think Toyota would price the majority of the people that buy Wranglers out of the market...guys in their early to mid 20's. Remember, the original FJ40's did not sell well. They were considered red-headed step childs at the time, gaining cult status many years afterwards (at least in the US). People thought they were overpriced 'Jeeps".

I would think the price would be not much different than a 4Runner or FJ...and those sell.

I dunno, since they do have the cult status now, and no longer considered a red-headed step child...I think it just might work....heck Icon sells them upwards of $250K! Even at those prices, from the sound of things they are doing very well, even expanded into a newer bigger shop. Now only if Toyota will mass produce them for the working man, it just might be viable.

I think they missed the boat with the current FJ, I would assume many would agree with me.

 

[Joash]

I don't think there's much of a comparison. Many people use Jeeps and similar vehicles as their everyday drivers. In addition, most people who drive $100k+ cars are not looking for a beast like that.

I don't know why the Unimog never took off here. Maybe there are already other vehicles in widespread use in commercial & military roles that are available for less, so it's hard to break into the market, especially with a product that is not very affordable even if it may be better.

Along the same line, I've heard for years "if Mercedes would import the Unimog, I'd buy one tomorrow". Well they did import the U500 and less than 300 sold in N. America 2003-06. Admittedly a $95-130K vehicle, but with a 33000 lb GVW...

Charlie

 

[FireGuy]

Make a four door FJ cruiser styled 4x4 with a solid coil sprung axle and lockers and Toyota will smash Jeep. Every one of us would be lining up to buy one.

At this point my next 4x4 will be a 4 door Jeep. I've held out long enough but Toyota is just not offering me what I want for a 4x4 SUV. 80 series are starting to get long in the tooth and the newer Toyotas are getting too plush.

 

[charlieaarons]

I would LOVE to see any 70-series chassis available here; existing body/bed styles ok with me. I would be the first in line at the closest dealer to buy one. But by the time they modified it to pass our safety and emissions standards it would be too expensive for all but a few enthusiasts like you and I, which I'm pretty sure is Toyota's marketing department's studied conclusion too.

Proffitt's Cruisers: I'm in line for a HZJ79 with some nice options. Price is not too terribly unreasonable for a custom built vehicle.

Charlie

 

[1911]

Proffitt's Cruisers: I'm in line for a HZJ79 with some nice options. Price is not too terribly unreasonable for a custom built vehicle.

Charlie

Congratulations, that will be a great truck!

They've tempted me more than a little (made a trip to their original shop, from Texas, to check them out) and I may yet end up with one of their Toyota diesel conversions in one of my existing trucks. But the thread is about what Toyota Corp. might or might not ever export to here... meanwhile, Proffitts is a great resource for those who can afford it.

 

[Rattler]

Diesel reliability - I think this has to be the biggest farce/misconception going around now. With all the stuff they put on diesels now, I would argue the well proven gas engines are more reliable. The old low reving, single wire engines such as the 3B's, 1HZ's, 12ht's, etc are generally no more (1HZ's in some markets). In their place you have diesels that have multiple sensors, particulate filters, high pressure injection systems and many points of failure.

I see your point there about more items on it. It might have to have the cow-piss tank like the full-sizes do now if it were considered a truck.

 

[Clutch]

The first thing out of my mouth was "diesel". The other was to actually downsize it some to the likes of what the Hilux/pickup once was.

The current 2013 HiLux is just about the size of a Tacoma, and with others in that market segment that are available over seas, such
as the new Ranger, and Colorado...growing in size...I would highly doubt the US Tacoma will shrink in size. Might get a small unibody
truck under the Scion badge though. In all reality, that is what most people really need.

I like the size of the current Tacoma, not too small not too big. My biggest complaint that it is down on power and capacity. Bump it up to a 2000 lbs.
payload, and get the horsepower and torque figures over 300, would be pretty sweet. I am happy with the gas engines, and don't lust after diesel. A twin turbo direct injection V6, option would be nice. Sure, it adds complexity, but so does a turbo modern diesel.

 

[Daz]

A twin turbo direct injection V6, option would be nice. Sure, it adds complexity, but so does a turbo modern diesel.

Ford seems to be doing well with their Ecoboost in a market that's dominated by big V8 engines; hopefully this trend continues through the other truck builders.

If I can't have a diesel then the turbo direct injection is the next best thing and I would think that the Taco is coming due for an engine refresh, no?

 

[jim65wagon]

The current 2013 HiLux is just about the size of a Tacoma, and with others in that market segment that are available over seas, such
as the new Ranger, and Colorado...growing in size...I would highly doubt the US Tacoma will shrink in size. Might get a small unibody
truck under the Scion badge though. In all reality, that is what most people really need.

I can see the Tundra going to a 3/4 ton, the Tacoma becoming a true 1/2 ton truck, and bringing out a new 4 cylinder version of the old pre Taco Mini truck...

I like the size of the current Tacoma, not too small not too big. My biggest complaint that it is down on power and capacity. Bump it up to a 2000 lbs.
payload, and get the horsepower and torque figures over 300, would be pretty sweet. I happy with the gas engines, and don't lust after diesel. A twin turbo direct injection V6, option would be nice. Sure, it adds complexity, but so does a turbo modern diesel.

The current Tacoma is so close to the size of a first gen Tundra that it's not even funny. They can add an inch or two of width to get a full 4 feet between the wheelwells in the bed, add a little more carrying capacity, and a 4.6L V8 (310HP, but more importantly 327lb-ft of torque) and I'd buy one of those.....in black please.