High Efficiency Air Conditioning Units for non-generator powered campers

[1aquaholic]

Any thoughts or experience with these batteries?

http://fireflyenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/12VE31-brochure.pdf

j

 

[OCD Overland]

I see nothing particularly special about that unit, besides the connectivity features.

Does look nice, is light, and compact.

From the specs provided, it doesnt draw much less, if any, than a traditional 5k BTU unit.

Operating in a 12 Volt system it will still be drawing 40+ amps when running.

Compared to a traditional unit, it's half the size, weighs 25% less, draws 15% less power. Compared to a rooftop unit, it weighs 70% less and doesn't put it's weight at the top of the trailer. It looks like it's actually well built, vs the bottom of the line units that typically come in that btu range. It's power draw may be low enough (waiting to hear from them) that it can be run off a Honda 2000. It can be stowed someplace safe during transit to reduce the risk of vibration damage. It can be left at home when not needed or serve double duty as a home and camper AC unit.

You want magic. It's not magic, but it could be nice - I like nice.

 

[IdaSHO]

Oh no doubt, its a step in the right direction, especially from a size and weight perspective.


But keep in mind that it isn't even in production yet, and all specs are "approx" and "estimated"


I wouldnt get too excited about it until it has true specs.

 

[Darwin]

Just saw this one. Thoughts??

Cooling amps 4.7
cooling watts 509

5,700 btu
https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/SQ06N10B.html

They have a few other cool looking AC units on the website.

 

[Coachgeo]

Can Mini splits be set up to use mulitiple locations (BUT NOT AT SAME TIME) . Would assume a compressed coolant shut off/on valve would be required. What about quick connects for coolant lines? Does such a beast exist?

For example...... Truck having removable camper box..... so it would need to be unplugged from both coolant and power. Tag along trailer is a shop on wheels. Plug coolant and power line to it to cool that area instead. Plug/unplug to cool cabin while driving....

 

[MNtal]

Does it really need to be that complicated?

I just ordered one of these for my Rambulance project.
.
Frigidaire
BTU (Cool): 5000
FFRE0533S1
16" W
Cool Area (Sq. Ft.): 150
Energy Efficiency Ratio: 12.2
Voltage Rating: 115V 60Hz
Amps (Cool): 3.8
Watts (Cool): 410
Horsepower (Cool): 0.55
Carton Width: 18-1/16"
Carton Depth: 17"
Carton Height: 15"
$167.99 w/ free shipping @ Amazon Prime
.
I also looked at:
.
Frigidaire
BTU (Cool): 6000
FFRE0633S1
18-1/2" W
Cool Area (Sq. Ft.): 250
Energy Efficiency Ratio: 12.1
Voltage Rating: 115V 60Hz
Amps (Cool): 4.5
Watts (Cool): 490
Horsepower (Cool): 0.66
Carton Width: 22-1/8"
Carton Depth: 18-1/8"
Carton Height: 14-3/4"
$183.00 w/ free Shipping @ Amazon Prime

 

[campo]

Hi Mntal
The price is very low, the noise level seems to be very high....
Ok thanks. Keep us informed about the fitting of this unit on your rig and the results.

 

[MNtal]

Hi Mntal
The price is very low, the noise level seems to be very high....
Ok thanks. Keep us informed about the fitting of this unit on your rig and the results.

I'm more sensitive to motion than noise most the time, I usually sleep with a fan blowing on me for temperature control and for the white noise.

The Unit should be in by Friday and I plan to hook it up and do some testing over the weekend to get a baseline for power consumption.

 

[IdaSHO]

Maybe no scientifically, but practically. I would suggest that efficiency, per se, is not the issue, but rather the fact that the A/C's are too large and thus consume too much power.

That is by far the largest hurdle.

The BTU rating is simply too high.


And as I have mentioned before, for an AC unit to work properly, the unit must be UNDERSIZED if anything.

Having a unit oversized does not allow the AC unit to properly dry the air before cooling it.

The result is "clamy" air. Cool and humid.

 

[campo]

@idaSHO
Thanks for your imput about cooling performance.
For my rig , I have as I mentioned somewhere before, calculated the need in cooling performance for the different climate zones
taking in consideration the insulation of the body, windows and the ventilation needs for 2 persons.
The result was between 1800 and 2000 Watt (roughly between 6000 and 7000 BTU/h) for the complete camper box (length inside 4,7m long)
and 600 Watt (2000 BTU/h) for only my bed zone (including 2 persons sleeping) when i close this by night with a curtain.
.
I do understand your undersizing idea but do not forget to mention undersizing by maximum 10 or 20%.
If you undersize something like below 50% of the calculated needs you get no cooling result.
So if you would fit a unit that makes less than 50%...you will feel no cold at all.
Open the door of your fridge to cool down your kitchen...you will feel no difference, the only thing that happens is that the fridge interior warms up.

 

[IdaSHO]

If the unit is undersized by a large percentage, of course cooling effect will diminish.

But stating that NO COOLING will result is completely false.
When relative to the same camper with no cooling at all, the one with the AC unit, even severely undersized, will always be cooler.
By how much is your only variable.


The simple fact is that the vast majority of folks that are interested in AC units (many who start and respond to these types of threads) are in the small to medium size camper range.
That range puts the ideal BTU output for an AC below 5k BTU. This is what the industry is lacking right now.
2-3k BTU units would be ideal for this crowd, and would satisfy the needs of 90+% of the typical truck campers and small tow trailers.

Dropping to that ideal BTU rating creates two things.... a MUCH more efficient camper that is considerably easier to manage and maintain temps and humidity levels,
and a cooling system that most would be considerably easier and realistic to run using solar and a decent battery bank.


A simple calculator that can be used to show just how many BTU you need for your specific space can be found here:

http://www.calculator.net/btu-calculator.html

 

[LeishaShannon]

This is where inverter units like our MHI really excel.

I can lock it to a maximum output of ~900W (~3000BTU) where its sipping just ~180W of electrical power. Usually thats after I use the "boost" mode where its pushing ~3100W (~11000BTU) to quickly cool the camper down. Variable speed compressor = best of both worlds.

18 months of full time travel around Australia including plenty of beach and track work and its still going strong.

If it failed tomorrow its only ~$590usd to replace.

 

[campo]

If the unit is undersized by a large percentage, of course cooling effect will diminish.

But stating that NO COOLING will result is completely false.
When relative to the same camper with no cooling at all, the one with the AC unit, even severely undersized, will always be cooler.
By how much is your only variable.


The simple fact is that the vast majority of folks that are interested in AC units (many who start and respond to these types of threads) are in the small to medium size camper range.
That range puts the ideal BTU output for an AC below 5k BTU. This is what the industry is lacking right now.
2-3k BTU units would be ideal for this crowd, and would satisfy the needs of 90+% of the typical truck campers and small tow trailers.

Dropping to that ideal BTU rating creates two things.... a MUCH more efficient camper that is considerably easier to manage and maintain temps and humidity levels,
and a cooling system that most would be considerably easier and realistic to run using solar and a decent battery bank.


A simple calculator that can be used to show just how many BTU you need for your specific space can be found here:

http://www.calculator.net/btu-calculator.html

This calculator gives a 30 to 50% lower result than the reality because
It does not take into consideration the the influence of 2 or more persons on board and the ventilation needs is very high in a small box like an RV.
.
In my long year AC experience on all sort of mobile applications I never had a “normal” RV where a maximum of ~900W (~3000BTU) cooling capacity was really sufficient.
Depending on the RV size and other parameters you need most of the times between 1200 and 2400 Watt (~ 4000-8000 BTU/h) .
Getting these cooling capacity out of batteries is a hell and not possible on smaller vehicles.
.
You see the 900 Watt 24V DC units on batteries now all over Europe on truck driver cabins. Yes on batteries, that means 2 class A batteries (2 x 220Ah/12V). But they use tricks!
Full cooling power is 900 Watt, economy position is 600 Watt. They sometimes do not cool the complete cabin but only the bed zone. And then they consider that a night is only 6 hours, because in the morning it gets fresh outside. So you get just a little bit of cooling and then the batteries are empty.
Our expedition RV rigs want more AC power and longer autonomy on batteries or on other off grid sources.

 

[campo]

This is where inverter units like our MHI really excel.

I can lock it to a maximum output of ~900W (~3000BTU) where its sipping just ~180W of electrical power. Usually thats after I use the "boost" mode where its pushing ~3100W (~11000BTU) to quickly cool the camper down. Variable speed compressor = best of both worlds.

18 months of full time travel around Australia including plenty of beach and track work and its still going strong.

If it failed tomorrow its only ~$590usd to replace.

Changing quickly the cheap AC unit when it breaks down ?
I don't think so. Remember that I have installed 3 different AC units on my rig.
Fitting the engine running AC extension in the back was a job of +/- 24 hours.
Fitting the split 24V DC unit was including lots of transformations more than 60 hours
Installing the Dometic Freshwell 230V unit was with 14 hours the easiest.
So the price of the AC components I used is far below the cost of the job.

 

[IdaSHO]

This calculator gives a 30 to 50% lower result than the reality because

It does not take into consideration the the influence of 2 or more persons on board and the ventilation needs is very high in a small box like an RV.

Sure it does. Use the "insulation condition" drop down.

In my long year AC experience on all sort of mobile applications I never had a “normal” RV where a maximum of ~900W (~3000BTU) cooling capacity was really sufficient.

Simple case of "your mileage may vary" :ylsmoke:


Some people are perfectly happy maintaining 70 or 75 degrees.

Others need 65 degrees. The difference is immense, and will require dramatic differences in BTU output, if the temp difference between inside and out is dramatic.



As in, cooling a camper in 90 degree weather down to 70 is much easier than down to 65.

But cooling the same camper down to 70 or 65 when the temps are in the 100's is MUCH more difficult.


Add in high humidity and the job gets even harder for the AC unit.

Not to drop the temps, but to make it FEEL colder, as dense (humid) air FEELS warmer.