Lightforce 140s for ON and OFF Road??

off-roader

Expedition Leader
A filter is a filter; it works by passively removing certain bits of light, wavelengths here, in certain quantities.
The blue Lightforce filters are removing a bit of red/orange/yellow ---- the ones that Scott's empirical testing has shown to be beneficial for human sight. They leave more of the blues, the ones that keep your pupils open, the ones that humans can't focus well with.
They take away available light; that's intrinsic to the very definition of a filter...

Your rods and cones will be better served by normal white light between 3200 and 4300K; use selective yellow in bad weather.
Bill, are you saying that the blues that keep your pupils open are bad for sight because the pupils stay open or that you loose your ability to focus will because your pupils stay open or are the two (open pupils, focus) not as related in that manner?

Interesting that the optimum range of light for our eyes is 3200-4300 kelvin. IIRC, the original and recommended replacement bulbs for Audi HID lights are rated at 4300K and there was always a lot of correcting happening on their forums when anyone spoke about getting replacement bulbs that were at a different kelvin rating.
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
WHAT???????

I never said that. I only said that we review tinting in the article - quite disparagingly actually.
I didn't mean your specific empirical testing; I meant that you alluded to empirical testing as a comparison criteria and that it exists in plenty regarding human vision. Sorry to obfuscate... ...I was giving you ownership of something you only rented.

http://www.lightingresearch.org/programs/transportation/pdf/SAE/2001-01-0320.pdf



Bill, are you saying that the blues that keep your pupils open are bad for sight because the pupils stay open or that you loose your ability to focus will because your pupils stay open or are the two (open pupils, focus) not as related in that manner?

Interesting that the optimum range of light for our eyes is 3200-4300 kelvin. IIRC, the original and recommended replacement bulbs for Audi HID lights are rated at 4300K and there was always a lot of correcting happening on their forums when anyone spoke about getting replacement bulbs that were at a different kelvin rating.
Your pupils stay in a relatively static degree of size during the day; that's healthy.
The blue light has a similar effect ---- not so good at night when there are varying degrees of illumination.
The color temperatures that I cited are the range of accepted temperatures for DOT-friendly halogen and HID lighting; LED lighting has a higher CCT than HID and might work well at higher (cooler) temperatures.

From what I've been reading lately, it's also not so great for peripheral vision to have your light too yellow; the rods/cones ratio are at a disadvantage at that point. So save your selective yellow for foul weather only.

If you want to look at from a safety standpoint, peripheral vision is almost entirely based on rods which have near-zero response to light of wavelengths longer than about 620 nm. Also, at lower light levels sensitivity of forward vision shifts from the photopic to the mesopic ( i.e. in between phototopic and scotopic ). For all of these reasons then, light heavy in longer wavelengths is less than optimal for night vision. HPS and LPS sodium street lights represent an extreme, but even "white light" in lower CCTs isn't as optimal as higher CCTs.

It also isn't that simple. Higher CCTs taken to an extreme increase glare and don't improve vision ( actually quite the opposite ). The optimal range seems to be ~4500K but 1000K on either side isn't that much worse. So to answer your question, white light of 3500K to 5500K works best for night vision, with ~4500K being optimal for most people. Some might prefer it a little lower, others a little higher. I'm not sure the selective yellow you seem to lean towards would be a good choice from a safety standpoint. You can pretty much kiss your peripheral vision goodeye. Then again, that's usually the case on roads lit with sodium lights anyway, so you're probably not making things any worse with selective yellow, at least on lighted roads. The street lights overpower whatever color the car's headlights are, with the end result being "tunnel vision".
 

craig333

Expedition Leader
Makes me wonder if Shweinfermann has ever owned a set. I had a branch drop from a tree while I was driving. Hit both the hellas and the lightforces. The hellas shattered into a million fragments. The lightforces didn't have a scratch. After running them for five years I still don't see any UV degradation.

If I were racing or wealthy I wouldn't care if a few got broke. Being on a budget having lights that can survive being hit debris is important to me.
 

Rattler

Thornton Melon's Kid
Makes me wonder if Shweinfermann has ever owned a set. I had a branch drop from a tree while I was driving. Hit both the hellas and the lightforces. The hellas shattered into a million fragments. The lightforces didn't have a scratch. After running them for five years I still don't see any UV degradation.

If I were racing or wealthy I wouldn't care if a few got broke. Being on a budget having lights that can survive being hit debris is important to me.

That was one of the reasons for me investing in LFs.
 

24HOURSOFNEVADA

Expedition Leader
I've owned three sets of Lightforce's and without a doubt will own more in the future. They are a great light. Strong, light and bright. That's a rare combination for any product.

Who gives a crap if you have to order an extra bulb when you buy a set of lights? It's an item that should already be in your kit along with an assortment of other vehicle specific bulbs.

I haven't had a Lightforce bulb go out yet. If by chance a bulb does go out, they have made it very easy to replace it. I'm unaware of an easier bulb to replace. No tools required.

I have an idea... If you don't or haven't owned a set, maybe you should reserve your comments until you have finished your cranberry juice.

BTW, my truck has never been featured in one of their ads, nor have I been sponsored by them. :rolleyes:
 

24HOURSOFNEVADA

Expedition Leader
My 140s came with an extra bulb that is packed in with the other filters.

Very cool. My first two sets were purchased in 2002 from Rod Hall Racing Because they were about the only place and team running them. As luck would have it are local and I have an "In" with them. LF didn't even have a harness back then.
 

off-roader

Expedition Leader
Makes me wonder if Shweinfermann has ever owned a set. I had a branch drop from a tree while I was driving. Hit both the hellas and the lightforces. The hellas shattered into a million fragments. The lightforces didn't have a scratch. After running them for five years I still don't see any UV degradation.

to ensure we're comparing apples with apples which hellas and which lightforce lights are you comparing?

The 1000, 700, and 500 are all consumer oriented products that are under $100 for the pair which includes a wiring harness, relay and switch.

All of the light force products I saw are over 2x that much.

I think a fairer comparison is against the Hella 4000 which IMHO is a far more robust light design based on their free form reflector, & zinc die cast body. Add to that their clear rock guards and you have a much more apples to apples comparison.
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
Makes me wonder if Shweinfermann has ever owned a set. I had a branch drop from a tree while I was driving. Hit both the hellas and the lightforces. The hellas shattered into a million fragments. The lightforces didn't have a scratch. After running them for five years I still don't see any UV degradation.

If I were racing or wealthy I wouldn't care if a few got broke. Being on a budget having lights that can survive being hit debris is important to me.
He worked in automotive lighting design and I think that most of his points of view are based solely on optics.
I got beaten up pretty badly on CPF when I endorsed Lightforce products for their value as a durable auxiliary light. We, as offroaders, have a much different set of criteria for our lighting...
I knew a guy with a new Beretta shotgun and a set of Lightforce lights in Florida. Yes --- we shot one and it survived with just a few scratches. Then we shot my old pair of Gargoyle sunglasses with both the shotgun and a .22 rifle; they did quite well too.

I don't want to come off as a total Lightforce hater. I'd like them much better if they straightened out their act though.
Keep the good lens covers, ditch the hokey ones, and use H1 bulbs...
 

off-roader

Expedition Leader
I knew a guy with a new Beretta shotgun and a set of Lightforce lights in Florida. Yes --- we shot one and it survived with just a few scratches. Then we shot my old pair of Gargoyle sunglasses with both the shotgun and a .22 rifle; they did quite well too.

Very Interesting... I guess you guys didn't like those sunglasses.:bike_rider:
 

milo12

Adventurer
I can give another thumbs up for Hella 4000's. I run 2 cornering beams and one Euro beam in the center. They provide a very wide deep amount of light. I can't imagine anyone needing more light. My lights have 50 watt HID bulbs which makes them Hella bright.
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
Very Interesting... I guess you guys didn't like those sunglasses.:bike_rider:
They were my old pair that I wore on the motorcycle; took a rock-hit, saved my eyeballs, but had a huge scratch afterward.
The .22 slug went in, sorta melted the polycarb, and stayed lodged in the material. Didn't pierce it though.


This pair, after this run (BunBurnerGold; 1500 miles in under 24 hours):
Bill-on-phone-BBG-12-04.jpg
 

off-roader

Expedition Leader
They were my old pair that I wore on the motorcycle; took a rock-hit, saved my eyeballs, but had a huge scratch afterward.
The .22 slug went in, sorta melted the polycarb, and stayed lodged in the material. Didn't pierce it though.


This pair, after this run (BunBurnerGold; 1500 miles in under 24 hours):
Bill-on-phone-BBG-12-04.jpg

Nice! Was that a standard 22LR load or anything special worth mentioning?

I wonder if the polycarb cover that hella offers for their lights would offer the same protection?
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
Nice! Was that a standard 22LR load or anything special worth mentioning?
I don't remember; wasn't my gun. I was really digging his Beretta anyhow; it was a competition model with almost zero recoil. Prettiest shotgun I ever saw.

I have covers for my HIDs that I put on when I remember; they're clear and I hope they add a little protection.
 

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