Lite weight campers & RVs. Consumers/customers need to push manufacturers....

[IdaSHO]

That's fine.

Read the post a few posts up.

That's what my response was towards.

An insulated shell, not a finished camper.

 

[washington taco]

Some ponderings on the topic.

It seems like the big rv market demographic is older folks. Retired or semi retired, house paid off or have big nut with enough to chip off and splurge on a rig. They worked hard and are ready to get out before they die. They want luxury and aren't interested in off the beaten path adventure. The rig only has to last 5 years in most cases before there done with it. It was purchased as a sunk cost and is almost a throw away item in the end. This is based on general build quality and what's currently available.

Has anybody looked at these? Sort of like what's being discussed. I think they are in the 10-20k range depending on model. Maybe a good time to drive to Canada and buy one at 25% off.

http://www.spacekap.com/

another Canadian manufacturer
http://www.tufport.com/utility-adventure

I have looked at the Tuf Port shells they are VERY nice! The Tacoma sized one is about 475 pounds and runs about 7 grand. Best of all they are only about an hour and half from my house. This all said the Tacoma sized shells are not a tall enough to stand up in.

 

[washington taco]

Ok, fair enough. How much would you be willing to pay for a simple insulated slide in camper shell? With simple I mean, no fancy windows, no cabinetry, one door and no jacks.

It would have to be around the price of the Tuf Port or similar shells. If it weighed less all the better.

 

[calstar]

A couple of small campers, probably not great for full on off road use but for most pretty likely OK. Yeah, there're stick frames and alu sided....

New 2016 hard side Northstar, not a budget unit($12,600) but may appeal to some as a "pay and done" unit. Follow link for lots of pics, I'll most likely copy some of the layout ideas for my little S&S. Brian

http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/tcm-exclusive-2016-northstar-vista

And the much more budget friendly Capri Cowboy. Link to all Capri models:
http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/truck-camper-buyers-guide/capri-camper-buyers-guide

My little custom built as per buyer spec S&S I bought used for$1300, excellent condition.

 

[bumblebus]

New 2016 hard side Northstar, not a budget unit($12,600)

Via link: "The base weight of the 2016 Northstar Vista is 1,260 pounds."

The 30 year old Six-Pac 8' camper I just got with 55"x88" cab-over bed, 6'4"+ interior height and bathroom clocks in at 1,335 "base weight" and cost $1,000 turn-key ready to camp. Not sure this Northstar... nice as it is... could be considered progress in the development of lite weight truck campers. What am missing here?

 

[calstar]

"Not sure this Northstar... nice as it is... could be considered progress in the development of lite weight truck campers." Bumblebus

Have to agree with you, loaded wet weight, gear, etc. has to be close to 1800lbs. I think this is marketed for the new half tons(and even most of those will be pressed to carry that weight safely) that have a greater payload capacity than those 10-15 years ago but it still is not what a lot of folks would consider light weight, myself included, as my half ton 2000 Silverado's payload is a meager 1000lbs.

Brian

 

[zb39]

ZB39-
Yes, I realize that luxury is where the current MA$$ market is. I think that what I am describing could be built quite PROFITABLY on a smallish scale assembly line producing possibly DOZENs of units per YEAR. What I envision would not be aimed at a "mass market" of thousands per year.
What I am attempting to do here is encourage someone to do a start up, or a company that already is in the business to expand into this niche market. Also to get us "niche mkt consumers" to "weigh-in" on the subject on the forum....

Most truck campers are not made by the 1000's each year. I agree it would be great to have choices, but MFG's have to stay in business. Northern just came out with a small lite etc. But everyone thinks its expensive. That is just the way it is if you want to make a product and make a profit.

 

[Freebird]

I was referring to ma$$ marketed RVs (all) and their faux luxury that should be trumped by quality/longevity...but isn't.
Admittedly TCs are a RELATIVELY small market, but how many TCs did Lance (one of the larger manuf) make last year? And at their peak? I don't know the numbers, but it is a large slice of the TC market.
Anybody have any numbers to plug in here?

Edit:
Looking for numbers, but they elude me.....

I found this an interesting overview of TCs:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_camper

 

[bajarat]

Check out this thread started by Jeep. This is a lifetime quality camper that will be coming to the market soon; hopefully! ��

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/143766-Flatbed-and-composite-panel-build-on-Dodge-2500

 

[Freebird]

^^^^yes, great build with top quality craftsmanship and materials.
I am under the impression he is building it for his own use, not as a prototype??
I expect he would entertain the possibility of a custom build if someone wanted to commission one, tho.
I am following with much interest....

 

[Healeyjet]

Freebird, I have had many conversations with Jeep about his camper build. I am under the impression that something production wise will probably happen. His build is beautiful to look at and with the history he has in off-road construction both commercially, with campers, as well as off-road vehicles, I am sure they will be perfect for what you are looking for. If I was you I would contact Mark at Lite Industries (Jeep on the forum) and discuss what you have in mind.
Ward

 

[Freebird]

HJ,
Thanks for the recommendation. I will stay tuned for now.
Your build is VERY impressive, too....
I like what I'm seeing from you Canucks!

 

[boxcar1]

Sadly, you must build your own if you want lightweight, quality, and (just) the features you want.
That's one of the biggest reasons I built my own. There simply wasnt/isnt a commercially available make/model that filled the needs

I agree completely and am in the midst of a build as we speak.

I build some really nice aluminum stuff and I don't have much good to say about what I see on the market. Poor welding, no welding, (tek screw and bent sheet metal angle bracket to connect stud to sill in .063 material….really?), crap fasteners, cheap cabinetry, etc

Again I have to agree.
While searching for a slide in for my current rig I was shocked at the just down right crap I saw.
Production aluminum framed campers are ( generally ) poorly thought out and constructed units. I was disappointed in all that I looked at.

Wood framing was not an option for me as I have a weight limit that I am trying very hard not to exceed. Not to mention all of the draw backs involved with wood construction.

This forced me into the realization that I would have to build from scratch.
I opted for a steel framed camper. Out of the box ?
Yes.
But I see many advantages to steel.
If done right , it is half the weight of a wood framed unit , more ridged , and much less labor intensive. It also suffers none of the draw backs that wood frames poses.
It is more cost effective than aluminum and really doesn't need to be any heavier than say a properly built aluminum chassis needs to be.
I am in the process of fabricating my chassis as we speak.
.065 x 1" x 1" and .065 x 1" x 2" steel tubing. 320 lbs.
8' bed length ( 13'6" over all ) x 6' 3" width .
It will be skinned with .035 sheet aluminum externally and 11/32 birch and mahogany underlayment internally. ( water , mold and mildew resistant )
Insulated with R-Tech poly insulation , walls , roof and floors. This product will not out gas.







This is the problem with most composites as I see them.
Plastics and resins will outgas rather bad fumes for years.
Not a good thing.


The camper will be outfitted with a Dometic 3 way 6 cubic foot refrigerator , 3 burner range ( I like to bake ) , a Blue flame heater , double sink , 16 gal fresh water tank with a 12 volt pump LED lighting and a double bed.
I'm estimating the dry weight of the rig at just under 1000 lbs.
We shall seeeeeeeeee.....

 

[boxcar1]

I think the real root of the problem is everyone's desire for high tech gadgets rather than plain old common sense.
Most newly constructed campers have all of the warmth and comfort of an operating room. White shiny plastic sterile boxes.
For me this is not what " camping " brings to mind.
A camper should be a refuge in the woods ( or any other environment you camp in ). Comfortable , inviting , warm .... As well as simple and reliable...
That's kind of the whole point of camping or off the grid living.
The use of composite's IE: engineered panels , is not necessarily a bad thing . It just doesn't solve the problems we are looking to solve.
Water intrusion: Weather from a leak or condensation is a bad thing. Ask any Lance owner.
Composites are notorious for creating condensation problems and leaks.
Weight: I have yet to see a composite camper that is substantially lighter than a properly thought out conventionally framed ( steel is real ) camper.
Rigidity : Nearly all problems with any camper can be traced back to flex. If it flexes it will pop a seam and leak.
Complexity : This is ( as I see it ) the largest problem .
How many computers do you really think it takes to keep a camper warm and dry.
A good working water system does not need to be managed by a computer.
Nor does an efficient heat source , refrigeration system , fuel system , waist management or electrical system.
You just need to know how to turn a valve or flip a switch. Something that seems to be lost in todays society.
In my humble opinion, a camper can be built using conventional techniques and materials ( I am obviously a fan of steel framing ) that will outlast any thing on the market.
Keep it simple, and most of all, seamless.
A 1 piece roof and side panel are critical ( aluminum ). Couple this to a ridged chassis ( frame ) properly seal all pass trough's ( I won't be using camper tape ) and insulate the heck out of the unit ( all surfaces) .
The use of wood for the interior isn't a bad thing as long as the camper doesn't leak. It's light , warm , cheap , easy to use , and inviting.
Cost: I am at less than $1000 at this point in my build. I have a $3000 budget. Now granted I am recycling most of my mechanicals from a couple of older destroyed campers.
But If I had purchased all new components I'd still be under $7000 . And I'd have a bunch of solid state computerized things ( not the word I'd like to use here ) to fail.
If I had used composites I'd be well over double or triple this cost. And the same or greater weight.
I see only one advantage to the use of composites.
Ease of manufacturing. The labor costs are probably 1/3rd that of conventional construction. All , of course , lost in the cost of the panels.
This rant is my opinion only. I am not trying to flame any one here ......

 

[OCD Overland]

But knowing what I know now, I could pump another one out for $40-$50k and sill make enough margin to justify the build.

Mine wet weighs in at less than 3000lbs. And being a flatbed model the floor plan is significantly better and interior space is much larger.

A few items that my build left out, on purpose:

* two propane tanks > I only need one. The camper is insulated so well that even cooking multiple times a day and heating the cabin in sub freezing temps I can run for more than a month on one 20# cylinder.
*wet bath > not needed. We have a chemical toilet for time that we simply cannot or refuse to dig a hole or pee in a bush. "showers" are a simple matter or heating water and sponge bath. which takes us to...
*water heater > For what?? Showers no doubt. Never do you need it for anything else. All it does is add complexity and eat propane
*electric water pump > Nope. Marine grade foot pump = light weight, near maintenance free, and uses no electricity. Cheap too!
*microwave > for what?? Nope, dont need it. Robs too much battery, weighs a ton, and reduces the cabinet space in kitchen
* AC unit > Really? Most of the reason to be or live on the road is for the experience. Experience it, dont hide from it in a conditioned camper!
*large furnace > Nope. Robs tons of 12V, is noisy, and is heavy. We use an old school "gravity" furnace. Super light, near silent, and uses no 12V
*camper jacks > leave them at home. NEVER needed on the road. Just adds weight.
*heated tanks > not needed if built properly. Just adds weight, another 12v draw, and complexity. Keep the tanks within the heated cabin and you never need to heat them. Works 2 fold. Once the cabin and tanks are up to temp the tanks act as large heat sinks to help moderate interior temps.

So for that price why not buy something like a small Oliver or Casita, lift it off it's frame and stick it on a flatbed? Without the frame it should be as light if not lighter. More space, better insulation, and you get all the conveniences that you left out. No rot, no rust. Buy it, stick it on the truck and go camping.