My Angry Defender Rant.

[Z O O R O P A]

thanks for over the top contribution and thread derail. since youre concerned about appropriate, try a pm next time.

thanks for your understanding. Your compassion is equally magnanimous

Evidently sometimes people need it spelled out for them as there are thankfully social boundaries at Expo. Courtesy and politeness are what separate this community from every other website.

Terri seemed to dismiss it yet again with the comment "Geeze its getting so almost any word will offend someone." Which is not true in the least and minimizes the importance of the point. Referencing Italian motorbike riders as a source for the expression was funny though.

I think quite a lot of Terri and her beautiful Irish Wolfhound. She remains a subject expert on Rovers and if you've read any of her material she exudes self-reliance

There should be a "filter" when you write something or post on Expo. Don't use the same language here that you use in your personal life if it is deemed as being uncouth

Really isn't that much to ask

It was and remains a civil discussion or side note about an important subject. Simple courtesy

Hardly derailing the thread however, if there is any subject worth derailing a thread it would be to improve the nature of communication between community members

 

[Z O O R O P A]

as far as Defenders go I always liked this chaps;

I dig the size and details such as the simplicity of the look and the rear exhaust mod. The extra large fenders and stock looking front end appeal to something in me. A rig like that could provide luxury for a long time on the trail for the family. I'd have to add a spare to the bonnet though

always nice to have a rig big enough for everyone to sleep in just in case something doesn't go as planned . . . which is most of the time

 

[TeriAnn]

Evidently sometimes people need it spelled out for them as there are thankfully social boundaries at Expo. Courtesy and politeness are what separate this community from every other website.

There should be a "filter" when you write something or post on Expo. Don't use the same language here that you use in your personal life if it is deemed as being uncouth

Zapped by the thought police

Honestly it never would have occurred to me that a chunk of metal, plastic, glass and about a half mile of electrical wiring could be offended by me calling it by a commonly used nickname.

I have the highest respect for Japanese people and their culture except for their traditional treatment of women within their society and the two individuals who shot my father (Once on Guadalcanal and once on Saipan). I wouldn't dream of of being derogatory to the people.

However I do reserve the right to be derogatory to inanimate objects, members of the other political party and myself when I do something really stupid.

Maybe I've become a relic of less sensitive times when people didn't have to consider that motor vehicles have feelings too.

 

[Z O O R O P A]

Zapped by the thought police

Honestly it never would have occurred to me that a chunk of metal, plastic, glass and about a half mile of electrical wiring could be offended by me calling it by a commonly used nickname.

I have the highest respect for Japanese people and their culture except for their traditional treatment of women within their society and the two individuals who shot my father (Once on Guadalcanal and once on Saipan). I wouldn't dream of of being derogatory to the people.

However I do reserve the right to be derogatory to inanimate objects, members of the other political party and myself when I do something really stupid.

Maybe I've become a relic of less sensitive times when people didn't have to consider that motor vehicles have feelings too.

Terri -

Please don't miss understand me. I wasn't trying to pick a fight but this is important for many reasons all of which benefit everyone here. It isn't about inanimate objects. It is about language and the meaning of language, word relations, and the potential for those words to be misguided and interpreted wrongly. Why you would entertain something that could so easily be received as lacking good manners at the very least and potentially overtly racial and continue to argue it leaves me at a loss

Rice burner isn't on the fence, there isn't a contrast to rice burner that could be viewed as friendly, funny, or enhanced. There is no action that calls attention to notable differences of definition where rice burner would deemed as appropriate in this community. Understand what that means; you can't use the expression rice burner in a pleasant reference without it relating to a descriptive negative quality of a race, which is NOT permitted in this community!

It isn't just about your beliefs or how you view it, it is about being considerate of others and showing them respect. While you or I may not take offense someone else might. Like I said, not everyone may see it the way you do since we all live in different environments with different rules and different associations therefor it is necessary to be thoughtful of others.

You claim to have nothing but respect for Japanese people yet rice burner does not equate a deep admiration or illustrate any favorable characteristics of the people. Some words invoke ideas and feelings, you need to understand that.

This kind of language wouldn't be tolerated any more if it was misogynistic or anything else. Sex, race, location, brand bashing are not permitted here for very good reasons. We have all seen the degrading process other websites have encountered. It was my understanding that Scott and company wanted to prevent this hence why we are having this conversation

You do not reserve the right to be derogatory to anyone or anything if you choose to participate in a community that prohibits the use of language that has negative connotations. Expedition-portal has guidelines prohibiting such behavior.

It is never to late to examine and explore anything that may improve our respect and communication for each other. Please participate here with the same affection and venerable attitude you show for dogs, photography, and adventure



Sorry to hear of your father, that is a great loss and tragic


Best wishes to you and yours this holiday season

 

[TeriAnn]

Understand what that means; you can't use the expression rice burner in a pleasant reference without it relating to a descriptive negative quality of a race, which is NOT permitted in this community!

I am SOOOOO thankful that you are the official forum censor and lord high inquisitor. It is reassuring to know that there is someone here from the Ministry of Truth who makes the decision as to what is morally correct for everyone else then dictates their decision.

Every correct society needs to have someone in charge of making sure that its citizens think and speak correct thoughts and correct words as narrowly defined by the the Ministry of Truth. And severely ostracized is the person who uses a slang word or phrase that is on the censor's proscribed list. Even if the offending person uses the phrase with a different meaning.

I guess alternate meanings of words and phrases is not allowed in Oceania.

 

[Hltoppr]

Point of order....I don't think my venerable 2F would run on rice, even if I tried.

:sport_box

-H-

 

[Z O O R O P A]

I am SOOOOO thankful that you are the official forum censor and lord high inquisitor. It is reassuring to know that there is someone here from the Ministry of Truth who makes the decision as to what is morally correct for everyone else then dictates their decision.

Every correct society needs to have someone in charge of making sure that its citizens think and speak correct thoughts and correct words as narrowly defined by the the Ministry of Truth. And severely ostracized is the person who uses a slang word or phrase that is on the censor's proscribed list. Even if the offending person uses the phrase with a different meaning.

I guess alternate meanings of words and phrases is not allowed in Oceania.

hah!

Now that was funny!

For the future, a simple "sorry if rice burner was inappropriate or bothered anyone" would have sufficed

Lord High Inquisitor - do you think I should put that in my signature
The bold lettering definitely is emphatic. Your charm is sweet, tenacious, and disarming. I highly enjoy it!

Now that I know you appreciate irony and sarcasm, could you please refrain from using slang that has the capacity for racial epithets since it is after all an international family website and against the spirit and rules of the forum.

Just a note on the meaning of words:

The branch of linguistics concerned with meaning is called Semantics. There are several branches of semantics in language; Lexical Semantics which studies word relations and meaning, Formal Semantics which studies the logic aspects of words, reference, and implication, and Conceptual Semantics which studies the cognitive structure of words and their meaning. This may be applied to a word, phrase, or sentence and the meaning can change by the tone, word placing, circumstance, or other considerations depending on the language and use.

There can be great ambiguity in the meaning of language or a single word, sentence, or expression Terri as you know. Your use of rice burner left little uncertainty sooooo if we could just be a tad more judicious about word selection we'd be groovy. I don't see how your use of it meant anything else though but, even if it did you continue to trivialize the importance of taking a proactive stance to avoid confusion and respect forum rules.

I am a student of speech pathology among other things and I studied under some very thorough professors lol

I hope you don't feel ostracized by my comments, your information and website are highly respected and valued. I look forward to more updates on your photography.

I am trying to keep this discussion focused on the subject of what is acceptable in this community and why, not who I am or if using a slang term makes you a bad person or not. A single instance like this does not define a human beings life or convictions. We all put our foot in our mouth from time to time. Arguing and not being accountable for something this silly however is just kind of ridiculous.



It sounds like you don't really care what other people think, you don't care that it's racist, and you don't care that it might offend somebody. Disappointing

 

[kellymoe]

Those G4 110's are sexy...

Yep, for a tea and crumpet burner it ain't half bad.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Yep, for a tea and crumpet burner it ain't half bad.

When I got my first Brit bike (Triumph Thunderbird) after owning a succession of Japanese bikes, I referred to it as a "blood-pudding-and-kidney-pie burner."

 

[Alaska Mike]

Rice burner (rice rocket...) has a negative connotation to some. Criticism of Land Rovers or the refusal to worship Lucas offends others. Try to consider the other side. Let's leave it at that.

Back to the subject at hand...

Scott Brady and I made our usual pilgramage to the Boise Land Rover dealership sometime back in '94 or so, probably to try to borrow some Camel Trophy videos or otherwise lust after what we obviously could not afford. There on the lot was a used yellow NAS D-90 station wagon, and they were kind (crazy) enough to let us test drive it abound the dealer's dirt test track. I think they wanted somewhere in the range of $30K for it. I could see Scott was mentally turning the numbers over in his head, but he's nothing if not fiscally responsible.

As we drove it around the track, I was less and less impressed. Every panel made noise, the door seals allowed the fine dust to enter all over the place, and it wasn't that comfortable for me. I didn't get a real feel for the off-road capabilities of it (that day), since this was only a dealer track in a vacant lot. It may have been a bad example, but for a vehicle that was less than 2 years old, I was unimpressed.

What I kept coming back to was the price. Back then you could get a brand new, fully loaded Jeep Wrangler (YJ) for around $15K, and I was (and still am to varying degrees) a Jeep guy. The comparison seemed valid to me, since they were pretty much the same class of vehicle in terms of capability. The Jeep would have been more comfortable (for me), been cheaper to maintain, and could have certainly been modified significantly for the extra $15K. In my view then, the D-90 price was not justified. I hadn't even considered gas mileage, insurance, and everything else that came with owning a Defender 90 at the time. It was a cool rig, but not that cool.

As the years have passed, the NAS Defenders have held their values pretty well (much better than Discos and most other vehicles) based on supply and demand. They have a great image and solid off-road capabilities. Are they worth $25K today, 15 years and many miles later? The practical side of me says there are better platforms out there for the money. There are undoubtedly some advantages to Defenders in terms of suspension flexibility, interior space, and operator position, but are they worth the extra money alone? How about when you add the miles on the engine/drivetrain and the less-than thrifty engine? For me, on a practical take, I just can't see it.

Do I lust after them? You betcha. Has nothing to do with practical reasons. It's all about the image and experience for me. I'll likely never own one, because I'll likely never have the disposable income required to purchase and maintain one. With 3 kids and a military job, I gotta be realistic.

 

[kellymoe]

When I got my first Brit bike (Triumph Thunderbird) after owning a succession of Japanese bikes, I referred to it as a "blood-pudding-and-kidney-pie burner."

I had no idea there were so many insensitive people on this site

 

[greenmeanie]

When I got my first Brit bike (Triumph Thunderbird) after owning a succession of Japanese bikes, I referred to it as a "blood-pudding-and-kidney-pie burner."

Now I take offense at that. The correct term is black puddin', which together with white puddin', square sausage, beans, proper bacon, fried egg and a fried tatty scone is the corner stone of a good breakfast. A fried tomato is for those health freaks.

 

[1leglance]

As part of keeping this thread on topic...
I still gotta say that when I channel surf or web browse and I see a Defender 110 or 130 I will stop and give it my full attention.
Maybe it was growing up in the 70's with Wild Kingdom on TV and Jim out there in the backcountry. Maybe it was any show that was in Oz or Africa having Defenders. Maybe it is genetic...
All I know is that for the same money I could build a better rig but like someone else said I doubt I would just stop and look at it with a smile and I doubt it would touch that same emtional core.
Someday I will have one, more than likely I will wait till the import restrictions are down and I can mod one with a diesel and auto trans, but someday I will have either a 110 or 130 fully kitted out hopefully with classic safari gear and a big smile on my face...hey I might even learn to drink tea just so I can "brew a cuppa" as it is said.

 

[4Rescue]

...hey I might even learn to drink tea just so I can "brew a cuppa" as it is said.

Get yourself some Billy Tea and learn to "Swing the Billy" as it's called... Good stuff, wakes ya right up in the morning.

Cheers

Dave

 

[michaelgroves]

There on the lot was a used yellow NAS D-90 station wagon, and they were kind (crazy) enough to let us test drive it abound the dealer's dirt test track. I think they wanted somewhere in the range of $30K for it.
....
What I kept coming back to was the price. Back then you could get a brand new, fully loaded Jeep Wrangler (YJ) for around $15K, and I was (and still am to varying degrees) a Jeep guy.

As the years have passed, the NAS Defenders have held their values pretty well (much better than Discos and most other vehicles) based on supply and demand. They have a great image and solid off-road capabilities. Are they worth $25K today, 15 years and many miles later? The practical side of me says there are better platforms out there for the money. There are undoubtedly some advantages to Defenders in terms of suspension flexibility, interior space, and operator position, but are they worth the extra money alone? How about when you add the miles on the engine/drivetrain and the less-than thrifty engine? For me, on a practical take, I just can't see it.

Looking back, though, the D90 might also have been the financially sensible decision, with a $5K depreciation over the past 15 years!

High second-hand prices are a two-edged sword - if you look after the Defender reasonably well, it works in your favour.