Overland Journal: Discovery I, 5-speed

Mike_rupp

Adventurer
True, I neglected to mention that, though I don't think they are exactly the same formulation. I think the blue has a higher boiling point.

Tom, both the Super Blue and 200 have a 536F dry boiling point and 396F wet boiling point, assuming that the data on the following links are correct.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3326
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3327

The Castrol GT LMA is rated at 446F dry and 326F wet. That is a fairly large difference, so if there aren't any downsides to the ATE, that's what I'll use.
 

kellymoe

Expedition Leader
That being said, I was wondering what practical evidence that Jack has with the ATE compared to other brake fluids, not a theoretical discussion of why I shouldn't use it.


I was wondering the same. I could always use better braking with the weight of my truck.

Has there been a seat of the pants change in braking since switching over to ATE blue?
 

michaelgroves

Explorer
Boiling points are not the only issues with brake fluids though. Some of the high performance fluids are more hygroscopic, IIRC, and therefore need changing more regularly. I suspect that the difference between a good brake fluid and the best brake fluid is only significant in racing/rallying vehicles, where brake pads only last a few hundred km. Never once has brake fluid been an issue for me (but I do use gears for mountain passes when laden).
 

Mike_rupp

Adventurer
All DOT4 brake fluids are hygroscopic to some extent. I haven't been able to find any data that compares the different brake fluids.

ATE Blue is used quite often in standard road driven BMWs without any significant downsides reported. I just haven't heard of any Land Rover owners using it. That's why I was interested to see what kind of experience Jack had with it.
 

michaelgroves

Explorer
I've never come across that particular fluid at all, nor do I have any reason to suggest it would be unsuitable! So I'd also be interested to hear if there is any noticeable difference when using it in a LR.

<really off topic rant> It's sad that brake fluid manufacturers don't publish proper specs - they usually just say what standards they comply with, and sometimes advertise some particular specification where they look good. Oil manufacturers do the same thing. It annoys me that some engine oils are sold in various packaging (at different pricing), each one indicating compliance with a different standard (diesel and gasoline, for example). The consumer has no way of knowing it's exactly the same oil sold at different prices. </really off topic rant>
 

JSQ

Adventurer
While this seems contrary to conventional theory I've found that the ATE Super Blue lasts so long and performs so well in my LRs because it tolerates heat and contamination better than conventional brake fluids like the Castrol GTLMA that we always used at the shop.

Rallye/Race applications and overlanding is very much an apples to oranges comparison, but...
I think people really underestimate the long term abuse that our brake fluid is subjected to, particularly in the Southwest and Baja.
For one thing, it's hot as MMMM underhood in a V8 rover.
And it's not the kind of impulse heat of late-braking and high horsepower. It's all day long roasty-toasty with little to no cooling. The thing about rallye applications and the like is that we really only consider the heat that's generated by the pads and the possibility of boiling the fluid. That friction is very hot, but there's a lot going on to keep the braking system cool, like speed, airflow and ducting.
We don't have any of that good stuff helping us out in the Rovers. What we do have is a fairly high and constant temperature spiked by frequent higher heat. We also have a MMMMload of weight and relatively small pad surface. It takes its toll.

When we look at BP, it's important not to regard it only as a limit, but also as a capacity for heat and water absorption. Over time the BP of brake fluid actually lowers with use. Contamination is one issue and water absorption is another. ATE Super Blue can actually take on a MMMMload of water and still maintain a pretty good BP. That's kickass. Wet BP is at 3% water. I bet a lot of our trucks get to a point where they've sucked in a lot more than 3%. Even just through the MMMMty cap on most Rover master cylinders. Also keep in mind that temperature swing leads to moisture in the fluid. I know for a lot of us our trucks will run very hot underhood all day on the trail but then spend the night in the twenties or teens or even colder. This happens a lot on trails like Dusy Ershim and it adds moisture to the fluid. The truck is barely doing 10mph all day long it's hot as hell in the engine bay, but by morning it's frosted over and icy.

All of these things make life hard for brake fluid in our trucks. ATE Super Blue just stands up better. I'd say in a Rover it will go 3 years with no problems.
It's not an excuse not to maintain your fluid or change it out regularly, but particularly after long hard use on a challenging trip it's nice that the fluid can tolerate contamination and heat so well.
Over time your brake fluid is getting hotter and wetter than you think it is.

I also like the blue color whether it's road legal in your state or not. It makes it easier to do that quick visual check of the reservoir and it's easier to see when bleeding the brakes through clear tube. Some people even alternate between the amber ATE and the blue when they flush so they know exactly when the old stuff is getting pushed out.

So this brake fluid costs 15 bucks.
That matters?

ate_superblueracing_BF.jpg
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
I'd say in a Rover it will go 3 years with no problems.
It's not an excuse not to maintain your fluid or change it out regularly
I'm really glad you mentioned that. Water in the fluid lowers the boiling point of brake fluid, and is one of the reasons to flush once a year, it also corrodes the brake internals. While keeping a good wet boiling point after 2 years is all well and good, that doesn't mean you should let it go that long between flushes, which some may assume.
That is one of the problems reported with silicone fluid. It's not hygroscopic, so the water pools in the system and corrodes things.
 

JSQ

Adventurer
I'm really glad you mentioned that. Water in the fluid lowers the boiling point of brake fluid, and is one of the reasons to flush once a year, it also corrodes the brake internals. While keeping a good wet boiling point after 2 years is all well and good, that doesn't mean you should let it go that long between flushes, which some may assume.
That is one of the problems reported with silicone fluid. It's not hygroscopic, so the water pools in the system and corrodes things.

I wish that corrosion from water in the fluid was a primary concern for maintaining Rover brakes. Unfortunately, it's pretty far down the list, but it is something to avoid.

Most people will have already changed them out, but any rubber component of the braking system, such as the factory flex hose, is another pathway for water.
 

Mike_rupp

Adventurer
Thanks for the reply. My point in asking the question was that the cost difference between the GT LMA and the ATE isn't enough to consider when making a decision. Considering that there doesn't seem to be any downsides to the ATE, I'll order some before I finish my brake job.
 

JSQ

Adventurer
Thanks for the reply. My point in asking the question was that the cost difference between the GT LMA and the ATE isn't enough to consider when making a decision. Considering that there doesn't seem to be any downsides to the ATE, I'll order some before I finish my brake job.

Sweet.
 

kellymoe

Expedition Leader
I also like the blue color whether it's road legal in your state or not. It makes it easier to do that quick visual check of the reservoir and it's easier to see when bleeding the brakes through clear tube. Some people even alternate between the amber ATE and the blue when they flush so they know exactly when the old stuff is getting pushed out.

So this brake fluid costs 15 bucks.
That matters?

ate_superblueracing_BF.jpg

$15 is chump change when it comes to maintenance on a Rover. I like the idea of being able to rapidly ID a fluid leak. This will be on my list of changes before my trip at the end of the month to the Death Valley area.
 

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