School me on home-defense (gun related).

BIGdaddy

Expedition Leader
It's amazing to me that someone would result to a loaded gun for home protection. What are you going to do, kill someone? (and go to jail unless they shoot at you first?) I think it could be a useful tool too but we don't lock our doors either other than occasionally at night and the last thing I ever think about is my gun, and keeping it loaded...

My $.02

we have castle laws here in california. If someone's in my house who doesn't live there, is posing a threat, and I shoot them, I win. thats it. Its very hard to get someone in jail in their own house here in Cali.

And yes, I would absolutely riddle someone full of holes until I am dead or they are, if they posed a threat to my 3 little girls or the woman who loves my Jeep.

regards,
Brian
 
Last edited:

Cackalak Han

Explorer
Thanks everyone for your comments. I will look into that GunVault (seems like a great product). I will, of course, teach the kid how to respect firearms. (Any tips on that would also be appreciated. :D)

It's amazing to me that someone would result to a loaded gun for home protection. What are you going to do, kill someone? (and go to jail unless they shoot at you first?) I think it could be a useful tool too but we don't lock our doors either other than occasionally at night and the last thing I ever think about is my gun, and keeping it loaded...

My $.02

I respect your views. I understand firearms aren't for everyone. And I know this has been beaten to death multiple times. I do feel that, while I would probably never be in a life-and-death situation, I would like to be prepared for it. I have not killed, nor plan to kill. However, if some lunatic were to break in and threaten my family, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger. The thought of my child getting kidnapped, my wife getting (don't even want to finish the thought), etc. is much more horrifying to me. I have the right to carry a gun and you have the right to voice your opinion. Let's just leave it at that and avoid the whole 2nd Amendment issue. Thanks. :)
 

computeruser

Explorer
Peripheral issue: home security is set up in layers. A simple explanation can be found in "Jim Grover's" (Kelly McCann) book Street Smarts, Firearms, and Personal Security. In essence, you need to make sure that it takes some effort for someone to get to (or through) your door without their presence being known. Do you have exterior lights? A fence? Dark corners where someone can hide (to attack or to take their time breaking in)? Do you have solid doors/windows with good locks? A dog? Etc.

On-point issue: Firearms don't do you a goddamn bit of good if you can't get to them, ASAP. They are not imbued with talismanic powers, such that their mere presence in the house will provide a benefit. And they don't do any good when you aren't home; your layered security does help, though.

Having known or known of a fair number of people who have been victims of home invasions and/or break-ins (many of which are domestic violence/stalking-related), the common threads that I see in the break-ins that occurred when people were home are these:
1. Inadequately secured doors/windows.
2. No early warning system - alarms, dogs, etc.
3. Doors that don't resist kick-in.
4. Opening the door when someone knocks, even though you weren't expecting anyone.

These are all preventable, or at least subject to easy risk mitigation. So do it.

The idea that an unloaded pistol or shotgun, tucked away in a closet, will be able to be readied quickly and under stress is unrealistic. The idea that it can be loaded as you struggle with someone who is trying to kick down your bedroom door, or while you try to round up your kids...right. I think it is prudent to secure those firearms you are not using, but you should leave your "working guns" ready to work.

I keep two deadly weapons ready for service - A pistol, which I wear during waking hours and store bedside at night (still holstered in my trousers, on the floor beside the bed), and a shotgun (12ga riot with 00) in the safe room closet. I live in an area where houses are close by, and have shot enough building materials with these weapons to feel comfortable that overpenetration is not an undue risk, should a shot go amiss. If I lived in a more rural area, I would gladly substitute a compact rifle for the shotgun (AR, AK, Mini14, shorter M1A or FAL).


For those concerned about overpenetration - I also know a fellow who had a home invasion earlier this year where he was able promptly hit the first armed invader, center of mass, with (as I recall) seven rounds of .357Sig, before he had made but a few steps through the front door. Invader was DRT and his compatriots ran off. However, a number of these hot, penetration-prone rounds failed to make it through the invader's puffy jacket and clothing, and fell onto the ground as the deceased was loaded up on a stretcher and carried off. Would a Glaser SafetySlug have stopped this guy?


It's amazing to me that someone would result to a loaded gun for home protection. What are you going to do, kill someone? (and go to jail unless they shoot at you first?) I think it could be a useful tool too but we don't lock our doors either other than occasionally at night and the last thing I ever think about is my gun, and keeping it loaded...

My $.02

I would hardly consider it a foregone conclusion that one would go to jail for shooting a home invader, even without a castle law protections in place.
 
Last edited:

BIGdaddy

Expedition Leader
Thanks everyone for your comments. I will look into that GunVault (seems like a great product). I will, of course, teach the kid how to respect firearms. (Any tips on that would also be appreciated. :D)



I respect your views. I understand firearms aren't for everyone. And I know this has been beaten to death multiple times. I do feel that, while I would probably never be in a life-and-death situation, I would like to be prepared for it. I have not killed, nor plan to kill. However, if some lunatic were to break in and threaten my family, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger. The thought of my child getting kidnapped, my wife getting (don't even want to finish the thought), etc. is much more horrifying to me. I have the right to carry a gun and you have the right to voice your opinion. Let's just leave it at that and avoid the whole 2nd Amendment issue. Thanks. :)


agreed. I erased my comments..haha!
 

Dave Bennett

Adventurist
What are you going to do, kill someone?

That's EXACTLY what I would do if someone broke into MY house with an intent to do my family harm. No doubts, no hesitation. And I'd sleep like a baby afterward.

You see home invasion/murders on the news all the time. I'd lock my door at night at the very least if I were you.

.02
 

Fergie

Expedition Leader
It's amazing to me that someone would result to a loaded gun for home protection. What are you going to do, kill someone? (and go to jail unless they shoot at you first?) I think it could be a useful tool too but we don't lock our doors either other than occasionally at night and the last thing I ever think about is my gun, and keeping it loaded...

My $.02

No, I am not going to "kill someone" as you have so, dare I say, ignorantly put it.

I will, however, stop, with finality, any immediate threat to my life, or the life of my family.

What kind of .357 are you buying? Full frame or concealed carry? If it is a smaller frame .357, consider a .38 +P or normal .38 with a high quality self-defense load. Even a light .357 load will be a pain to handle with the smaller frame revolvers, especially the ones with smaller grips. The .38 will do the job just fine.

***NO HAND LOADED ROUND FOR SELF DEFENSE...FACTORY ONLY***

Heed the advice others have given here as far as education, defense, and planning goes.
 

cruiseroutfit

Well-known member
It's amazing to me that someone would result to a loaded gun for home protection. What are you going to do, kill someone? (and go to jail unless they shoot at you first?) I think it could be a useful tool too but we don't lock our doors either other than occasionally at night and the last thing I ever think about is my gun, and keeping it loaded...

My $.02

Darn soap dodgers :D Not only are you closed minded Dre' your ignorant to Utah's right to protect home and family too. In Utah, a loaded weapon can be concealed anywhere in home or car without any sort of permit. That's right Utah does NOT require a CCP for weapons stored inside of a vehicle as they consider it an extension of your home and you have the right to protect home and family.

Now can you shoot a burgler as he is breaking out your car stereo, of course not. But can you shoot a rapist that is snatching a 14 year old daughter out of her bedroom, absolutely! You have have a reasonable feeling that the life of yourself or family is in eminent danger. Simple. If your life is threatened by any means and you shoot and kill. You will walk. You don't have to be shot at, you don't have to be raped or stabbed, you don't have to watch your wife duct taped and dragged out the door (all things that have happened in even quite Utah) You have to feel the lives in your responsibility are in danger. They happen in Utah, they happen all over the US. Your good buddy Dan George held a man at gunpoint in his house while the police were en route.

I'd rather be prepared and fingers crossed never have to use it, then not be prepared and suffer the consequences. Simple as that. No different than a winch on my rig or a spare belt under my seat.

EDIT: To give you a case to ponder Andre. Last May in WVC and mother woke to find a neighbor kid prowling in their house. Her husband was at work and their two kids were asleep. Long story short the children sat next to their mothers dead body until the father came home from work that morning to find his lifeless wife brutally beaten. The 17 year old neighbor killed her to prevent being caught burglarizing their home. He awaits trial. A very, very sad case. Had the wife been armed would this have happened? We can all play what-ifs but given the fact she awoke to him in the house, its fair to say that the tides could have turned? Who knows? It sucks to even have to be in a position to second guess an instance like this. But I can assure you that Candace (especially when home alone) is comfortable with the fact she has the means and training to protect herself in a similar circumstance. LINK

I'll save you all from my weapon story but Dre you can read about it on the WC forum in which a crack head charged into my yard and attempted to enter my house. Thank heavens things ended with him (and the neighbor) going to jail and me feeling relieved that things didn't escalate on either side of the situation.
 
Last edited:

dieselcruiserhead

16 Years on ExPo. Whoa!!
Sorry guys not to stir the pot here. I'm just saying yes I would feel guilty if I killed someone if they were stealing a stereo or toaster or microwave or shoot, even my car. These are just simple material items. Again I have owned guns and I like them and I very much support the 2nd Amendment. I more than recognize and respect the right for a concealed weapons permit as well.

But the last thing that crosses my mind is to have that weapon loaded in the house in case of a burglar. I look at the odds of the scenario you guys are describing (where the burglar actually is an intimate thread) as worse than getting stuck by lightning, which is probably not too far off. Even if there were a burglar, while it would "feel cool" to chase that guy off, what if he had a gun and I were really just putting myself in danger, in addition to the dangers of having a loaded weapon in the house. I do think think this is a practical, safe, and more than reasonable approach.
 
Last edited:

dieselcruiserhead

16 Years on ExPo. Whoa!!
I realized I had deleted or not included the phrase where I mentioned that I have owned guns -- sorry to stir the pot and to come across as outrageously anti-gun. Again, please see my above post. Thanks, Andre
 

the1jzahn

New member
The solution is this: http://www.gunvault.com/
Any weapon can be safely stored, loaded and ready, at/near/or under the bed using one of these. I sleep good at night.


Chance favors the prepared.

+1
I have this one and love it. You can program it to any code you like and has a back up key if the battery dies. Can't go wrong with it. The taller one with the shelf has plenty of room for mags, two guns, and small valuables.
 

cruisertoy

Explorer
. Your good buddy Dan George held a man at gunpoint in his house while the police were en route.

With Dan's attitude at times I'm surprised he didn't take the guy out and put him in a hole in the west desert.

My game plan is to keep the outside of my house as crappy looking as possible while my neighbors all have nice homes. Who's going to break into the guy's house that doesn't have two pennies to rub together.:victory:
 

cruiseroutfit

Well-known member
Sorry guys not to stir the pot here. I'm just saying yes I would feel guilty if I killed someone if they were stealing a stereo or toaster or microwave or shoot, even my car. These are just simple material items. Again I have owned guns and I like them and I very much support the 2nd Amendment. I more than recognize and respect the right for a concealed weapons permit as well.

Andre read my post and my added edit, brings things close to home for me. I think its fair to say none of us would condone nor participate in shooting over a stereo or TV. But whats to say that situation doesn't escalate when you encounter the would be thief (again read my edit above). Whats to say the intruder doesn't have the sole mission of harming you or your wife? It is thankfully a very remote scenario, but so is needing my ReadyWelder. I hate to draw that kind of parallel amongst such a serious issue but a protection weapon in the home is a tool, not a tool every one feels like they need or should have, but a tool that in comfortable and responsible hand could solve a serious issue and doesn't cause any harm in the meantime.

But the last thing that crosses my mind is to have that weapon loaded in the house in case of a burglar. I look at the odds of the scenario you guys are describing (where the burglar actually is an intimate thread) as worse than getting stuck by lightning, which is probably not too far off.

Guess again. How about you find out how many Utahns have been killed by lightening and I'll show you 10 fold more that have been killed in their own homes or better yet have not been killed because they protected themselves. See my edit story above, and I can find you plenty more from here in Utah. Just last month there was an apartment intrusion in which an intruder was killed by one of the apartment owners, oddly enough with the intruders own knife, another tenant had been stabbed already. Rare, sure, and were there circumstances placing that apartment in more danger than the next, of course, does it rule it out from happening and it definitely doesn't rule me out from being prepared. I've got earthquake insurance too ;)

I think it surmises to say that there are many different opinions out there on the subject. I'm not hear to tell anyone how to protect themselves, in fact is is a very personal issue. I respect that and I respect a guy with a cell phone next to his bed as much a someone with home defense 12 gauge.

Andre, your neighbors will have this sign up soon.

GunBan.jpg
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 9101

Guest
It's amazing to me that someone would result to a loaded gun for home protection. What are you going to do, kill someone? (and go to jail unless they shoot at you first?)



Obviously you value the life of a criminal over that of yourself and your family.
 
S

Scenic WonderRunner

Guest
I've Finally Learned!

I'm not going to get sucked into another one of these threads!:elkgrin:

I'll just let them guess what will happen!

.....:costumed-smiley-007

I need a Sign!

At my front door!

Something like....Draw these straws, to see how long you might live, if you don't Leave Now!

....
highjack.gif




.
 

Jonathan Hanson

Well-known member
Although it's somewhat of a peripheral issue to the original post, I feel I need to dispel the myth that a magazine left constantly loaded is subject to spring fatigue and subsequent failure-to-feed malfunctions. It's been proven metallurgically that no such fatigue occurs, at least in any spring that's not some Afghan-village-gunsmith pot metal. It's perfectly safe to leave magazines loaded.

If anything, constantly emptying and reloading magazines is more likely to cause spring fatigue, but even that is highly unlikely in a decent-quality magazine, as long as the compressed spring does not exceed its yield point, where plastic deformation occurs and atomic bonds start breaking.

I had an actual page of metallurgist argot somewhere showing this with molecular-level explanations, but I can't find it at the moment.

Back to our original program.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
188,593
Messages
2,907,555
Members
230,704
Latest member
Sfreeman
Top