Sportsmobile vs. XP Camper -- Why the XP Camper Won For Us
- Thread starter drodio
- Start date
I'd agree completely with this statement. I flew jets in the Navy that were pretty complicated and needed a high level of maintenance. Flying as a civilian I chose to fly much simpler planes because of maintenance and it was much easier to stay proficient.
I looked for the same simple approach when choosing my camper. It had to be strong and have reliable/repairable systems. That's why I have an FWC. It works and it's strong, and it's been tested on some pretty good jeep trails.
Exploring Elements
Supporting Sponsor
My Perspective/Opinion
It's interesting that this post has gotten so much attention so quickly. The reality is that nearly all the campers discussed in this thread are very nich products. There are feature sets, price points and capability levels that will fit just about anyone. I'm a journalist in the overland sphere and have visited with many companies, gone through many rigs at SEMA and Expo, lived in a Sportsmobile for over 2yrs and am currently in the market for a new rig that fits my specific needs of RTW travel with a bunch of adventure sports gear.
I love the van life and my '02 Quigley Sportsmobile has been good to me for North American travel. I love the van layout with its pass through, overall size and creature comforts. I think Sportsmobile offers a quality 4x4 system, the best option for a pop-top on a van and a level of custom build that you don't get with many of the other choices. They have refined layouts that work well for many different types of customers. The negative to a Sportsmobile in my opinion is the quality of the cabinet construction, although I know that it has greatly improved in the past few years. The price tag on a Sportsmobile is also a bit high for the features that you get, and currently you can't get a diesel Van (excluding the Sprinter). The Sportsmobile Spinters look quite nice, but they don't meet my offroad capability requirements.
Tiger, Earthroamer and GXV all offer truly amazing rigs! The interior refinement in these vehicles is second to none. If you look closely at these rigs there are big differences in comparable models, and pros and cons to each brand. In the end it really comes down to what you can afford. I'd love to travel in the new GXV Fuso with the hardside popup camper and pass through. I also know that the over $200K price tag on that rig is not something that I will have the funds to buy any time soon. That is a LOT of travel money! Money speaks in the world of custom offroad capable homes! I also want to point out that Tiger offers rigs that are much more in the price range and overall size of the XP, Sportsmobile, etc... really being discussed in this thread. F550 and bigger platforms are what Earthroamer and GXV currently offer and are in a whole different category of camper.
I've known Marc from XP for some time now. He is very passionate about creating a quality product that he stands behind. He is open to customer feedback, but also does not like to cheapen his products to meet a different market segment. From what I've seen, and through talking to a few of his clients, Marc always takes care of any issues that might arise with his campers. He wants to be known for quality and for having a rig that is extremely capable in all environments and conditions. As was stated, he has more campers on order than he can currently make, so there is a solid market for the XPCamper. Will he sell thousands a yr? Only time will tell. I honestly don't believe that his intent is to be huge. I think that he would be happy making sustainable quantities of super high quality campers for passionate clients that will get out there and use the product for its intended purpose, to explore the remote places of the world.
I really like the construction and quality that I've seen in the XPCampers, both the V1 and V2. With that said I seriously doubt I'd ever buy a V1, as it does not meet my needs. I'm not a fan of the softsided cab over, not having a pass through, the big size or the considerable weight. All of these factors are also why I wouldn't buy any other full size truck camper. I think the flatbed is actually a really cool idea and why many people will buy an XP. On the flip side I personally see little use for a flatbed, as I want a fully integrated rig that I will travel in full time, again my personal preferences and needs. I love the idea of a light weight stripped down version of the V2, with a cab pass through, monster roof rack built on a more capable, when loaded down, platform. Something like an older full size diesel dodge extended cab, 70 Series diesel pickup or Hilux pickup. If money wan't an object maybe the new Dodge 1,500 4cyl turbo diesel coming out next month or the 2015 diesel Chevy Colorado.
I have to say that I'm really surprised by the comments by Chris at UJoint and Justin at HD-RV (jmarquand). I was just in their NC shops this past week, and have really positive articles coming out about both of them on Motus and my site soon. I've known Chris for some time and consider him a friend. We are talking about a possible build together as well, as his 4x4 system is super high quality and he does amazing work. Chris, Justin & Marc collaborated on the V4 build for the 2012 SEMA show and all got quite a bit of positive press for the incredible vehicle they produced. Chris built the van, Justin built the flatbed and Marc built the camper. I know that due to some time constraints, an early production number and some mishaps along the way the camper that Chris got was not perfect, and that he didn't pay perfect price for it. I also know that Marc bought the camper back off Chris, as mentioned before, when Chris's life changed with the arrival of his baby. I believe the camper has since been fully upgraded/fixed and has moved on to a new owner that is out exploring. I'm really not sure where Justin's comments are coming from, but I'm surprised by them. From what I've seen XPCampers are build to a higher quality standard than any other removable truck camper out there. I know that Justin is getting into the business of being a direct competitor of XP, so maybe that was the motivation there? Justin does do phenomenal work and seems to be a very knowledgable engineer, so I'd also have no issues working with him on a high quality overland camper build.
In the end I think there is room in this market place for all of these products. I for one haven't found the perfect answer to my overland vehicle needs, and I've been looking hard at all these options and many others. Find the rig that fits your needs and your budget, then hit the road! Experiences are the spice of life, not how much money you spent on your shiny overland rig.
You can see my writeup on my Sportsmobile West Factory tour here: http://www.exploringelements.com/snapshot-sportsmobile-west/
You can see my writeup on the UJoint V4 build here: http://www.exploringelements.com/sema-news-ujor-v4-the-adventure-van-of-your-dreams/
You can see my writeup on the Tacoma V2 Prototype here: http://www.exploringelements.com/xpcamper-v2-the-ultimate-overland-truck-camper/
It's interesting that this post has gotten so much attention so quickly. The reality is that nearly all the campers discussed in this thread are very nich products. There are feature sets, price points and capability levels that will fit just about anyone. I'm a journalist in the overland sphere and have visited with many companies, gone through many rigs at SEMA and Expo, lived in a Sportsmobile for over 2yrs and am currently in the market for a new rig that fits my specific needs of RTW travel with a bunch of adventure sports gear.
I love the van life and my '02 Quigley Sportsmobile has been good to me for North American travel. I love the van layout with its pass through, overall size and creature comforts. I think Sportsmobile offers a quality 4x4 system, the best option for a pop-top on a van and a level of custom build that you don't get with many of the other choices. They have refined layouts that work well for many different types of customers. The negative to a Sportsmobile in my opinion is the quality of the cabinet construction, although I know that it has greatly improved in the past few years. The price tag on a Sportsmobile is also a bit high for the features that you get, and currently you can't get a diesel Van (excluding the Sprinter). The Sportsmobile Spinters look quite nice, but they don't meet my offroad capability requirements.
Tiger, Earthroamer and GXV all offer truly amazing rigs! The interior refinement in these vehicles is second to none. If you look closely at these rigs there are big differences in comparable models, and pros and cons to each brand. In the end it really comes down to what you can afford. I'd love to travel in the new GXV Fuso with the hardside popup camper and pass through. I also know that the over $200K price tag on that rig is not something that I will have the funds to buy any time soon. That is a LOT of travel money! Money speaks in the world of custom offroad capable homes! I also want to point out that Tiger offers rigs that are much more in the price range and overall size of the XP, Sportsmobile, etc... really being discussed in this thread. F550 and bigger platforms are what Earthroamer and GXV currently offer and are in a whole different category of camper.
I've known Marc from XP for some time now. He is very passionate about creating a quality product that he stands behind. He is open to customer feedback, but also does not like to cheapen his products to meet a different market segment. From what I've seen, and through talking to a few of his clients, Marc always takes care of any issues that might arise with his campers. He wants to be known for quality and for having a rig that is extremely capable in all environments and conditions. As was stated, he has more campers on order than he can currently make, so there is a solid market for the XPCamper. Will he sell thousands a yr? Only time will tell. I honestly don't believe that his intent is to be huge. I think that he would be happy making sustainable quantities of super high quality campers for passionate clients that will get out there and use the product for its intended purpose, to explore the remote places of the world.
I really like the construction and quality that I've seen in the XPCampers, both the V1 and V2. With that said I seriously doubt I'd ever buy a V1, as it does not meet my needs. I'm not a fan of the softsided cab over, not having a pass through, the big size or the considerable weight. All of these factors are also why I wouldn't buy any other full size truck camper. I think the flatbed is actually a really cool idea and why many people will buy an XP. On the flip side I personally see little use for a flatbed, as I want a fully integrated rig that I will travel in full time, again my personal preferences and needs. I love the idea of a light weight stripped down version of the V2, with a cab pass through, monster roof rack built on a more capable, when loaded down, platform. Something like an older full size diesel dodge extended cab, 70 Series diesel pickup or Hilux pickup. If money wan't an object maybe the new Dodge 1,500 4cyl turbo diesel coming out next month or the 2015 diesel Chevy Colorado.
I have to say that I'm really surprised by the comments by Chris at UJoint and Justin at HD-RV (jmarquand). I was just in their NC shops this past week, and have really positive articles coming out about both of them on Motus and my site soon. I've known Chris for some time and consider him a friend. We are talking about a possible build together as well, as his 4x4 system is super high quality and he does amazing work. Chris, Justin & Marc collaborated on the V4 build for the 2012 SEMA show and all got quite a bit of positive press for the incredible vehicle they produced. Chris built the van, Justin built the flatbed and Marc built the camper. I know that due to some time constraints, an early production number and some mishaps along the way the camper that Chris got was not perfect, and that he didn't pay perfect price for it. I also know that Marc bought the camper back off Chris, as mentioned before, when Chris's life changed with the arrival of his baby. I believe the camper has since been fully upgraded/fixed and has moved on to a new owner that is out exploring. I'm really not sure where Justin's comments are coming from, but I'm surprised by them. From what I've seen XPCampers are build to a higher quality standard than any other removable truck camper out there. I know that Justin is getting into the business of being a direct competitor of XP, so maybe that was the motivation there? Justin does do phenomenal work and seems to be a very knowledgable engineer, so I'd also have no issues working with him on a high quality overland camper build.
In the end I think there is room in this market place for all of these products. I for one haven't found the perfect answer to my overland vehicle needs, and I've been looking hard at all these options and many others. Find the rig that fits your needs and your budget, then hit the road! Experiences are the spice of life, not how much money you spent on your shiny overland rig.
You can see my writeup on my Sportsmobile West Factory tour here: http://www.exploringelements.com/snapshot-sportsmobile-west/
You can see my writeup on the UJoint V4 build here: http://www.exploringelements.com/sema-news-ujor-v4-the-adventure-van-of-your-dreams/
You can see my writeup on the Tacoma V2 Prototype here: http://www.exploringelements.com/xpcamper-v2-the-ultimate-overland-truck-camper/
drodio
Entrepreneur & Lifehacker
@Scottrope -- that's a REALLY good question! I don't have a good answer for it yet. We've been discussing wheel options a bunch over here: http://forum.xpcamper.org/index.php/topic/34-turn-key-rigs/?p=255 ... Yes I am definitely doing a DRW to SRW conversion, but the Rickson tires (which seem to be the best option) can't be aired down, which puts them out of the running for me. If you have any ideas/advice I'd love to hear it; could you reply on that thread to continue that convo over there?
RE: @jmarquand's comments:
When Marc started XP Camper, he told me it was because he'd bought a more traditional slide-in camper and was very disappointed in the quality of the product. From what I understand, it leaked shortly after buying it. I imagine he felt like he'd thrown his entire investment down the drain. So he started XP Camper to make a better camper. But not just a little bit better -- a lot better. That's why he uses a composite monocoque shell (and a bunch of the other things that I mentioned in my original post).
Like anything, it's an iterative and learning process to bring something totally brand new to the market. @jmarquand mentioned that the quality of the XP he saw was poor. Marc is German, so you can imagine how rigorous he is about quality. @jmarquand mentioned that the hatches were cracked. It's absolutely true -- the original hatches on early units had square corners. In fact, Marc pointed this out to me when I visited his shop and I took a picture of it: http://pics.danielodio.com/Play-1/XP-Camper/i-5z2mK9V/A That's why now, all the hatches have rounded corners,which keeps them from cracking, like the door entry http://pics.danielodio.com/Play-1/XP-Camper/i-tfMMKh2/A and the back storage area http://pics.danielodio.com/Play-1/XP-Camper/i-wnf4PTS/A and all the others.
There's no instruction manual for how to make a superior camper, he's literally been inventing things as he goes, and he learned by creating prototypes and extensively field testing them. @ujoint mentioned that the support struts failed in his camper, again as I understand it, that's true: Originally Marc had to use external contractors, and one of the contractors tapped the holes incorrectly, making them weaker. He's since brought his machine shop in-house so he can control the quality himself. And regarding the 1/2 inch gap in the entry door seal -- the original entry door design wasn't optimal. Marc's since completely re-designed the entry door. The V1 design has now been through a number of prototype and production iterations and I consider it mature and well field tested, which is why I'm ordering one, and the smaller V2 design gets the benefit of the learning curve Marc went through with the V1.
I know the entire team at XP stands fully behind their product. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be buying one myself. If you're not sure or you're curious to see if the XP really is *that much better* like I'm saying it is, then I invite you to visit their shop like my wife and I did to see just how dedicated they are, and to experience the differences for yourself. They're located in Grass Valley, CA about 2 hours from the Sacramento airport. You might even ask to borrow his V2 prototype for a weekend of exploring (like Sue and I did). If you do that, and he agrees to loan it out to you, just give him copious amounts of feedback, because that's how he continues to iterate on his products to make them even better.
(PS as you can see from the end of this video, Marc doesn't necessarily love having visitors because it distracts him from getting campers done, but he also loves to show off his work so I'd bet you can get a tour set up pretty easily.)
RE: @jmarquand's comments:
When Marc started XP Camper, he told me it was because he'd bought a more traditional slide-in camper and was very disappointed in the quality of the product. From what I understand, it leaked shortly after buying it. I imagine he felt like he'd thrown his entire investment down the drain. So he started XP Camper to make a better camper. But not just a little bit better -- a lot better. That's why he uses a composite monocoque shell (and a bunch of the other things that I mentioned in my original post).
Like anything, it's an iterative and learning process to bring something totally brand new to the market. @jmarquand mentioned that the quality of the XP he saw was poor. Marc is German, so you can imagine how rigorous he is about quality. @jmarquand mentioned that the hatches were cracked. It's absolutely true -- the original hatches on early units had square corners. In fact, Marc pointed this out to me when I visited his shop and I took a picture of it: http://pics.danielodio.com/Play-1/XP-Camper/i-5z2mK9V/A That's why now, all the hatches have rounded corners,which keeps them from cracking, like the door entry http://pics.danielodio.com/Play-1/XP-Camper/i-tfMMKh2/A and the back storage area http://pics.danielodio.com/Play-1/XP-Camper/i-wnf4PTS/A and all the others.
There's no instruction manual for how to make a superior camper, he's literally been inventing things as he goes, and he learned by creating prototypes and extensively field testing them. @ujoint mentioned that the support struts failed in his camper, again as I understand it, that's true: Originally Marc had to use external contractors, and one of the contractors tapped the holes incorrectly, making them weaker. He's since brought his machine shop in-house so he can control the quality himself. And regarding the 1/2 inch gap in the entry door seal -- the original entry door design wasn't optimal. Marc's since completely re-designed the entry door. The V1 design has now been through a number of prototype and production iterations and I consider it mature and well field tested, which is why I'm ordering one, and the smaller V2 design gets the benefit of the learning curve Marc went through with the V1.
I know the entire team at XP stands fully behind their product. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be buying one myself. If you're not sure or you're curious to see if the XP really is *that much better* like I'm saying it is, then I invite you to visit their shop like my wife and I did to see just how dedicated they are, and to experience the differences for yourself. They're located in Grass Valley, CA about 2 hours from the Sacramento airport. You might even ask to borrow his V2 prototype for a weekend of exploring (like Sue and I did). If you do that, and he agrees to loan it out to you, just give him copious amounts of feedback, because that's how he continues to iterate on his products to make them even better.
(PS as you can see from the end of this video, Marc doesn't necessarily love having visitors because it distracts him from getting campers done, but he also loves to show off his work so I'd bet you can get a tour set up pretty easily.)
ZukiCAMPER
Banned
Not the issue..
:Wow1:WOW!!:Wow1: That's a big leap.. So Just because :chef:Marc:chef: is german means his quality is awesome?? Then let's just seal this thread up now.. because stereotypes can never be wrong...
I was not referring to the compartment corners being round vs square.. The unit I'm familiar with already had the rounded corners.. Glad to see they Marc recognized the square corner problem and resolved it... I have attached a simple figure to explain the cracking problem that the compartment doors on our unit had.. To my knowledge this is still how the doors are manufactured today.. At the two 90 degree steps in compartment doors to allow clearance for the top to come down there is a huge stress concentration on the joint because the force on the moment arm to overcome the gas struts is transmitted though the two sharp 90 degree corners which inherently propagate cracks....
:Wow1:WOW!!:Wow1: That's a big leap.. So Just because :chef:Marc:chef: is german means his quality is awesome?? Then let's just seal this thread up now.. because stereotypes can never be wrong...
I was not referring to the compartment corners being round vs square.. The unit I'm familiar with already had the rounded corners.. Glad to see they Marc recognized the square corner problem and resolved it... I have attached a simple figure to explain the cracking problem that the compartment doors on our unit had.. To my knowledge this is still how the doors are manufactured today.. At the two 90 degree steps in compartment doors to allow clearance for the top to come down there is a huge stress concentration on the joint because the force on the moment arm to overcome the gas struts is transmitted though the two sharp 90 degree corners which inherently propagate cracks....
But Wait,
so why was a 1/2" door gap acceptable to send out?? I mean he's german so it has to be awesome.. that's nice that Marc can use customers to as trial and error method of developing a product..:coffeedrink:
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ZukiCAMPER
Banned
False..
I have no intention of being Marc's competitor, or building pop-up or production truck campers.. I build custom, to spec, one-off rigs... I am only giving my informed opinion and stating facts from my experience with a product, unfortunately my experience was not good.. I'm sorry that some of you don't agree but this isn't that "I saw an xp one time for 2 hours when I visited Marc's shop" like some of the people who have chimed in.. (Not aimed at you GoBig) or Marc said this or that, This is months of actually being around it, working on it, fixing it, trying to go camping trips with it, only to take it out and find more broken things to fix or have more problems with it... Yes there were time constraints on building the camper..If you consider 8 months a "constraint"..
I have no intention of being Marc's competitor, or building pop-up or production truck campers.. I build custom, to spec, one-off rigs... I am only giving my informed opinion and stating facts from my experience with a product, unfortunately my experience was not good.. I'm sorry that some of you don't agree but this isn't that "I saw an xp one time for 2 hours when I visited Marc's shop" like some of the people who have chimed in.. (Not aimed at you GoBig) or Marc said this or that, This is months of actually being around it, working on it, fixing it, trying to go camping trips with it, only to take it out and find more broken things to fix or have more problems with it... Yes there were time constraints on building the camper..If you consider 8 months a "constraint"..
Exploring Elements
Supporting Sponsor
I think your opinion of the XPCamper and Marc are obvious Justin. Not sure of the history there, but sorry to hear the distain. I believe that most of what your saying about your experience with the V4 build to be true, but I also know there are quite a few factors that you are omitting and/or don't know about that are giving your words a very negative spin.
From my experience Marc, the very German quality conscious guy that he is, is working hard to build a production camper that is designed for the overland market, and not the mass truck camper market. Marc is a trained gourmet chef, and not an engineer. His attention to detail is very solid and he has used engineering experts and testing to hash out what he thinks is the right way to build his style of camper. Your either going to like him or your not, and I believe the same goes for his campers. When you really evaluate the price, quality and features I believe XP puts out a very competitive product. I also believe, from what I've seen visiting XP and from what I've heard from XP customers, that Marc stands behind his campers and will always take care of his customers.
I know that the V4 build was a very early V1 camper, and that there has been continuous improvement over time at XP. I also know that dealing with suppliers is a pain when building a new unique product, as I had to deal with some really tough supplier issues with a company that I recently owned in the paddle sports market. I know that XP used outside suppliers for a few things, like the fiberglass camper shells. I also know that they are taking steps, like building their own onsite fiberglass shop, in order to bring all of these things in house, in order to continuously improve their product.
In the end I'm sure I'm coming off as an XP fan boy. In reality I just like to see innovative products in the market place and don't like to to see my friends slandered, and I do consider Marc a friend. I have no skin in the game with XP and have had in person experiences with MANY different overland camper systems. We all have our own opinions and forums like Portal are a great place to air them. I look forward to the innovative stuff that comes out of HD-RV, XPCamper, Sportsmobile and all the other specialty overland camper shops. I also hope to get to know you better Justin and be able to call you a friend as well, as I was really impressed with what I saw at your shop last week.
From my experience Marc, the very German quality conscious guy that he is, is working hard to build a production camper that is designed for the overland market, and not the mass truck camper market. Marc is a trained gourmet chef, and not an engineer. His attention to detail is very solid and he has used engineering experts and testing to hash out what he thinks is the right way to build his style of camper. Your either going to like him or your not, and I believe the same goes for his campers. When you really evaluate the price, quality and features I believe XP puts out a very competitive product. I also believe, from what I've seen visiting XP and from what I've heard from XP customers, that Marc stands behind his campers and will always take care of his customers.
I know that the V4 build was a very early V1 camper, and that there has been continuous improvement over time at XP. I also know that dealing with suppliers is a pain when building a new unique product, as I had to deal with some really tough supplier issues with a company that I recently owned in the paddle sports market. I know that XP used outside suppliers for a few things, like the fiberglass camper shells. I also know that they are taking steps, like building their own onsite fiberglass shop, in order to bring all of these things in house, in order to continuously improve their product.
In the end I'm sure I'm coming off as an XP fan boy. In reality I just like to see innovative products in the market place and don't like to to see my friends slandered, and I do consider Marc a friend. I have no skin in the game with XP and have had in person experiences with MANY different overland camper systems. We all have our own opinions and forums like Portal are a great place to air them. I look forward to the innovative stuff that comes out of HD-RV, XPCamper, Sportsmobile and all the other specialty overland camper shops. I also hope to get to know you better Justin and be able to call you a friend as well, as I was really impressed with what I saw at your shop last week.
I am pretty sure that the door design being referred to in the previous post is the old design.
The last V1 one I saw last week had 2 pieces, and the bottom folds like a regular (half) door.
The last V1 one I saw last week had 2 pieces, and the bottom folds like a regular (half) door.
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ujoint
Supporting Sponsor
The door Justin is referring to is for the electrical access, not the entry door.
Everything Justin has said is fact, things that I had to deal with during my ownership of the camper. he has no personal vendetta or competition issues with him. They've never met. Marc was always 100% ready to help with any problems, even if he didn't know how to fix them (all of the 110 plugs wired wrong, I was never able to use the inverter) Even if a manufacturer is willing to fix issues, there comes a point when its not worth the time. I have a busy schedule building vans and we have a baby @ home so time to fix a camper doesn't exist. Yes, we didn't use it much once she was born but this was only a small % of why I sold the camper back. I didn't feel comfortable promoting a product that gave me so much anxiety.
Sorry to Marc if he reads this but I feel honesty is always best and if you don't speak up nothing changes.
And... passing the buck to suppliers isn't acceptable in todays world. If I have a part made by someone for me, its MY responsibility to make sure its right. I sold it, its my problem if something goes wrong.
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It's disappointing that someone can start a thread with good intentions and have it end up in the ditch. There is no way to objectively compare all the campers here. They all have their advantages and disadvantages -- selecting one depends on so many separate and different criteria, all unique to the owner.
Drodio -- thanks for taking the time to post this. I for one found the analysis very interesting.
Drodio -- thanks for taking the time to post this. I for one found the analysis very interesting.
Gooseberry
Explorer
It's great to see anyone's opinion on this kind of stuff. The main reason the smb is my choice is it's like driving a car on and off road. The weight is equal on both axels and setting at the frame rails not above them. Sure the cabinets could be built better but they have seen a lot of abuse and are still working and smb does make them out of better stock now.
If was to do a it would be for a Alaska trip that was on graded roads not the trails I take Jiminy on.
Instead of a flatbed why not make it just sit on the frame or heaven forbid slide in to save the expense of that and kill the resale.
If was to do a it would be for a Alaska trip that was on graded roads not the trails I take Jiminy on.
Instead of a flatbed why not make it just sit on the frame or heaven forbid slide in to save the expense of that and kill the resale.
Maybe I have thick skin but I don't see this as negative. The tone is a bit negative but I am glad people have chimed in with multiple views. As a prospective owner I am glad to hear it and include it in the evaluation. The drawing above makes total sense to me and maybe Marc will improve the design. Great stuff.
Everything is a compromise and everyone has an opinion. Also, this thread reminded me of how great Expo is compared to other forums I frequent; I think people here tend to be respectful.
Everything is a compromise and everyone has an opinion. Also, this thread reminded me of how great Expo is compared to other forums I frequent; I think people here tend to be respectful.
Joe Millican
New member
WOW, it's time to ring the bell and some go to their neutral corners'. It looks to me that this has morphed into something other than what the OP started as, why DROdio choose the XPCamper. All of the aforementioned campers/companies have their place in our “niche” market of off road camping. Let's face it they are all in the “niche” market because the primary in the camping world is still the tow behind camper IMHO.
Let me upfront here. I have an XPCamper on order. I had my truck (2006 Dodge 3500) built out for the XP (flatbed installed) and for off road use (short of climbing boulders) without the camper for fishing and trail exploring day trips. As other's have stated in this post; SMB, FWC, Hallmark, Alaskan (not mentioned but I have added), Earthroamer, GXV and XPCamper will fit an individuals specific needs where the others will not. Hey we all have different tastes, needs and expectations of what our campers should do for us, rite? Who wants a cookie cutter world? Not I. When I started my search for my camping rig several years ago I went through the same process of elimination that everyone else on this post has gone through to find the right camper for ME. I looked at SMB and FWC and they were too cramped for me and I wanted to avoid the slide in type for traditional truck beds. Past experiences in my youth were not always positive experiences. Earthroamer and GXV's were too expensive and one dimensional for me. I was leaning towards the Alaskan camper when I came across the XPCamper post. Looked into it and the more I looked the more I liked. I took several trips to Marc's business and looked, touched and asked a lot of questions about his product. I spoke to several owners of the XPCamper and felt confident that this would fit MY needs put a deposit down on an XP. I haven't had a moment of regret or concerned that Marc's product wouldn't live up to my expectations.
I respect Marc a lot, I respected his innovativeness, ingenuity, his attention to detail, his vision that came to be XP in all of its forms, his willingness to fix or change his product to better fulfill his vision or clients needs and foremost his honesty. I don't know if “jmarquand” critique of one of Marc's earlier builds was an anomaly and I'm sure Marc did his best to address any issues that arose with that camper. (I understand he bought it back). Marc addresses these issues on the XPCamper forum if anyone would like to see it. I drove to Marc's shop yesterday and asked him to show me the 1” gap that allowed critters to get into the camper, I didn't see one). I do know that the current production model he produces does not have the claimed flaws. The criticisms are unfortunate and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Marc is a decent guy but when you run a business you can not please everyone (even though I have seen him try) and there will be those out there will take their “snipes” when they can.
Happy trails, tread softly and enjoy life while you can because you don't live forever!
Let me upfront here. I have an XPCamper on order. I had my truck (2006 Dodge 3500) built out for the XP (flatbed installed) and for off road use (short of climbing boulders) without the camper for fishing and trail exploring day trips. As other's have stated in this post; SMB, FWC, Hallmark, Alaskan (not mentioned but I have added), Earthroamer, GXV and XPCamper will fit an individuals specific needs where the others will not. Hey we all have different tastes, needs and expectations of what our campers should do for us, rite? Who wants a cookie cutter world? Not I. When I started my search for my camping rig several years ago I went through the same process of elimination that everyone else on this post has gone through to find the right camper for ME. I looked at SMB and FWC and they were too cramped for me and I wanted to avoid the slide in type for traditional truck beds. Past experiences in my youth were not always positive experiences. Earthroamer and GXV's were too expensive and one dimensional for me. I was leaning towards the Alaskan camper when I came across the XPCamper post. Looked into it and the more I looked the more I liked. I took several trips to Marc's business and looked, touched and asked a lot of questions about his product. I spoke to several owners of the XPCamper and felt confident that this would fit MY needs put a deposit down on an XP. I haven't had a moment of regret or concerned that Marc's product wouldn't live up to my expectations.
I respect Marc a lot, I respected his innovativeness, ingenuity, his attention to detail, his vision that came to be XP in all of its forms, his willingness to fix or change his product to better fulfill his vision or clients needs and foremost his honesty. I don't know if “jmarquand” critique of one of Marc's earlier builds was an anomaly and I'm sure Marc did his best to address any issues that arose with that camper. (I understand he bought it back). Marc addresses these issues on the XPCamper forum if anyone would like to see it. I drove to Marc's shop yesterday and asked him to show me the 1” gap that allowed critters to get into the camper, I didn't see one). I do know that the current production model he produces does not have the claimed flaws. The criticisms are unfortunate and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Marc is a decent guy but when you run a business you can not please everyone (even though I have seen him try) and there will be those out there will take their “snipes” when they can.
Happy trails, tread softly and enjoy life while you can because you don't live forever!
Captm
Adventurer
Just my view
What could, and IMHO should have been a positive review of XP was marred by the negative, often inaccurate and sometimes false comparisons to the other options out there. While comparing Sportsmobile vs. XP Campers is like comparing apples and oranges it was the OP intent. I wrote earlier about the statement, "To sum up the differences in one sentence, an XP Camper is built like a yacht; other campers are built with staples and glue." Well the first question was responded to but not the second which was - 2. When you say that, " other campers are built with staples and glue" why didn't you name them specifically instead of leaving the reader to conclude that you meant the brands that you referred to in your second paragraph, "We evaluated Sportsmobile, FourWheelCampers, Hallmark, Earthroamer, Phoenix, Outfitter, even going to Colorado to see all of the shops." The point being that you imply a negative connotation on all the "other campers", click on the provided link you see an example of Hallmarks use of staples but what of the "other campers"? The statement, "It would always drive me crazy how in other campers, the interior is this hodgepodge of wood construction, like something you'd find in a dollhouse." Again non specific and when you follow the link you find not a "hodgepodge of wood construction" but rather Hallmarks use of oak in a very traditional manner. Dollhouse? What about the "other campers" use of wood? The comparison between Earthroamer and the XP I feel really misses the mark. "And while the exterior is made from a bonded monocoque shell similar to the XP, it doesn't carry over to the interior, which still has the dollhouse wood look and feel to it (albeit, varnished dollhouse wood!)." From viewing the photos provided there is little similarity between the composite structure of the two. It's like saying hand laid fiberglass is similar to a cored product. As for the interior XP chose to go with finished glass (paint or gelcoat?) and Earthroamer a finely finished product similar to a yacht. Dollhouse? In regards to FWC it was stated in the "review" that, "Its roof lifting mechanism is a model of simplicity, which is both good and bad — there are less things that can break, but by contrast, you can't put any weight on the roof (no canoes, for example)." Funny FWC states that,"The patented Easy-Lift roof system is rated to carry 1000 lbs of snow when the roof is in the up position." I guess they offer the Yakima rack system as an option because you can't put any weight on the roof.
For me, and maybe others, it's these type of statements (there are more)that sour the positive aspects of XP and invite criticism of the report.
Cheers
What could, and IMHO should have been a positive review of XP was marred by the negative, often inaccurate and sometimes false comparisons to the other options out there. While comparing Sportsmobile vs. XP Campers is like comparing apples and oranges it was the OP intent. I wrote earlier about the statement, "To sum up the differences in one sentence, an XP Camper is built like a yacht; other campers are built with staples and glue." Well the first question was responded to but not the second which was - 2. When you say that, " other campers are built with staples and glue" why didn't you name them specifically instead of leaving the reader to conclude that you meant the brands that you referred to in your second paragraph, "We evaluated Sportsmobile, FourWheelCampers, Hallmark, Earthroamer, Phoenix, Outfitter, even going to Colorado to see all of the shops." The point being that you imply a negative connotation on all the "other campers", click on the provided link you see an example of Hallmarks use of staples but what of the "other campers"? The statement, "It would always drive me crazy how in other campers, the interior is this hodgepodge of wood construction, like something you'd find in a dollhouse." Again non specific and when you follow the link you find not a "hodgepodge of wood construction" but rather Hallmarks use of oak in a very traditional manner. Dollhouse? What about the "other campers" use of wood? The comparison between Earthroamer and the XP I feel really misses the mark. "And while the exterior is made from a bonded monocoque shell similar to the XP, it doesn't carry over to the interior, which still has the dollhouse wood look and feel to it (albeit, varnished dollhouse wood!)." From viewing the photos provided there is little similarity between the composite structure of the two. It's like saying hand laid fiberglass is similar to a cored product. As for the interior XP chose to go with finished glass (paint or gelcoat?) and Earthroamer a finely finished product similar to a yacht. Dollhouse? In regards to FWC it was stated in the "review" that, "Its roof lifting mechanism is a model of simplicity, which is both good and bad — there are less things that can break, but by contrast, you can't put any weight on the roof (no canoes, for example)." Funny FWC states that,"The patented Easy-Lift roof system is rated to carry 1000 lbs of snow when the roof is in the up position." I guess they offer the Yakima rack system as an option because you can't put any weight on the roof.
For me, and maybe others, it's these type of statements (there are more)that sour the positive aspects of XP and invite criticism of the report.
Cheers
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