Sportsmobile vs. XP Camper -- Why the XP Camper Won For Us

[sassthathoopie]

The big question swirling around in my head though is just how capable are these trucks when it comes to offroading beyond the graded dirt roads? Are they top-heavy? can they flex well enough with that much weight? are the trucks still within their GVWR?

Top heavy isn't an issue for us with our XP. The GRP/carbon fibre structure is very light, and although the tankage is massive it is all located low down. The camper is solely mounted to the flat bed which enables a degree of independent flex. Certainly the cab can adopt a slightly different angle to the camper at times.

Here's us completing a lap of the White Rim Trail (Canyonlands NP). We were the first vehicle to make the trip after the first snow in Nov 2012.

We were complete offroad novices 3 weeks prior to this. Yet the XP V1 coupled to a lightly modified F350 gave us enough confidence to tackle this ascent, and the tighter scarier one on Hardscrabble Hill.

In the preceding weeks we drove out to Racetrack Playa and over Hunter Mountain in Death Valley NP, and crossed the Grand Staircase Escalante from Escalante to Alstrom Point via the Hole in the Wall, Left Hand Collet Canyon and Smokey Mountain Road. This summer we also completed the ascent/descent right to the shoreline of Laurel Lakes nr Mammoth.

Regarding the opening to the elements when raising/lowering this hasn't ever been an issue for us, although admittedly we haven't camped in a really buggy area. But we did full time for 5 months ski camping (Tahoe/Aspen/Utah/Jackson/Whitefish/Revelstoke/Whistler). The dual top ran continuously from early Jan until mid April (15 weeks) without a fault - no need to enter a cold camper after a long drive. Many nights in negative numbers (farenheit) but plenty warm enough; I've managed an interior temp of 91f with the Webasto thermostat at 80% whilst outside it was in the 20s!

 

[ujoint]

The XP isn't what I would call light, mine was just under 2700lbs dry. I think mine had the highest bed of any due to the taller body section of the van. I never had it on any tough trails but did play around with it and drive x-country. With no sway bars on the rig it drove well, just had airbags in the rear to adjust the suspension.

 

[cwsqbm]

Having the ability to successfully use the nicely designed and comfortable XP camper as a base camp would be awesome for me. Go to a camp site unload and explore, pick up supplies, leave the wife asleep in camp while you go fish, hike, etc in the morning. I hope they come up with a workable solution to this (eg jacks with an under camper support, etc).

There are already far roomier and cheaper base camps available - trailers.

 

[Maninga]

The XP isn't what I would call light, mine was just under 2700lbs dry. I think mine had the highest bed of any due to the taller body section of the van.

I'm curious, just how high was the bed? I bought an XPCamper from someone 30 minutes from my house here in Melbourne, and currently having a hell of a time finding a suitable vehicle that'll take the weight. The Australia tax on F250's, F350's, Ram 3500's etc is high. My original vehicle list has had to be thrown out, now looking at a Canter with bed ~4ft off the ground.

Talking with the original owner of the camper, who's done extensive travel around Australia, USA & Canada in it, it's held up well. The only real problems he's had were a couple of things not completed right due some hard deadlines for delivery and not being able to take care of them before shipping, and a comedy of errors that had the top come down at an akward angle creating some cracks in the gelcoating on a corner of the cabover. I believe the camper itself handles corrugations and the like well, will be able to report back on it in a few months after testing it out.

On the flatbed debate. The US may have an issue with them, but here every other 4wd ute has a tray on it. It just makes sense. I was originally going to buy a Patrol with FWC before this came up (patrol's too small it seems), brothers got a Hilux D4D, sister a Colorado tray. We're not sure the V1 would work too well here, but V2's would sell really well, especially given the price. If they came in around the 40k mark here, even 50k, it's a bargain compared to most cabovers on the market.

 

[Keyne]

There are already far roomier and cheaper base camps available - trailers.

Yes, exactly... I started looking at trailers because they could be nicely outfitted and used as a base camp (eg an airstream with a Land Crusier or truck tow vehicle), but I don't like the length and limitations off road with a comfy trailer.

Also to answer the "game changing" question referred above, the game changing aspect to me is the high end build quality of an XP over what it offered by the typical pop up campers offered today. I come from yachts so maybe I like the interior of the XP better, but to me they are more in line with a GXV or Earthroamer but offer the base camp capability.

The ability to have that level of luxury at a lower price (compared to ER) with the base camp seems like a value. In my mind it could be considered a comfortable portable cabin instead of of considered a "truck camper". Different strokes for different folks but my wife would much rather have something more like the XP or Earthroamer interior than a typical truck camper with the old style cabinets and below eye level windows (on the popups).

 

[haven]

My understanding is that the Sportsmobile Bravo camper was more of a proof of concept exercise than a commercial product. I think Sportsmobile is working on a new design based on the experience they had and feedback they received with the Bravo. However, with so much going on right now (new Ford and Dodge full size vans, factory 4x4 Sprinter announced, ATW camper shells arriving, and more), I think the Bravo redesign is sitting on the back burner.

 

[stioc]

Top heavy isn't an issue for us with our XP. The GRP/carbon fibre structure is very light, and although the tankage is massive it is all located low down. The camper is solely mounted to the flat bed which enables a degree of independent flex. Certainly the cab can adopt a slightly different angle to the camper at times.

Here's us completing a lap of the White Rim Trail (Canyonlands NP). We were the first vehicle to make the trip after the first snow in Nov 2012.

We were complete offroad novices 3 weeks prior to this. Yet the XP V1 coupled to a lightly modified F350 gave us enough confidence to tackle this ascent, and the tighter scarier one on Hardscrabble Hill.

In the preceding weeks we drove out to Racetrack Playa and over Hunter Mountain in Death Valley NP, and crossed the Grand Staircase Escalante from Escalante to Alstrom Point via the Hole in the Wall, Left Hand Collet Canyon and Smokey Mountain Road. This summer we also completed the ascent/descent right to the shoreline of Laurel Lakes nr Mammoth.

Thanks for shedding some light on the XP's offroad-ability. Those are all great destinations, a couple still on my to-do list (White Rim and Laurel Lakes).

The XP isn't what I would call light, mine was just under 2700lbs dry. I think mine had the highest bed of any due to the taller body section of the van. I never had it on any tough trails but did play around with it and drive x-country. With no sway bars on the rig it drove well, just had airbags in the rear to adjust the suspension.

Would you say a Sportsmobile/van/Syncro etc would have an advantage over a heavier shell-over-cab camper design when it comes to offroad-ability?

 

[ujoint]

I'm curious, just how high was the bed?

52"

Would you say a Sportsmobile/van/Syncro etc would have an advantage over a heavier shell-over-cab camper design when it comes to offroad-ability?

For sure.

 

[craig333]

Anyone really compared the two for offroad capabilities? I know what a truck can do, no idea about the sportsmobiles. They look like they'd be tippy.

 

[Captm]

Thank you for your interesting opinion piece and the invite for comment. It was a fun read and I knew the comments to follow would likewise be interesting. Your assertion that, "To sum up the differences in one sentence, an XP Camper is built like a yacht; other campers are built with staples and glue." brings several questions to mind but just a couple for now. 1. What is your experience in yacht building? 2. When you say that, " other campers are built with staples and glue" why didn't you name them specifically instead of leaving the reader to conclude that you meant the brands that you refered to in your second paragraph, "We evaluated Sportsmobile, FourWheelCampers, Hallmark, Earthroamer, Phoenix, Outfitter, even going to Colorado to see all of the shops." You do realize that "staples and glue" are used on yachts, and the XP is more comparable to a racing/cruising sailboat as Earthroamer is to a yacht, right?

Well back to work - it's my watch on the helm.
Cheers:088:

 

[Christian P.]

Just to add a random comment that has probably no value in this discussion...

There is no stapling in the VW Westfalia cabinets, and I almost no glue either (unless perhaps to hold the trims in the groove and to support the under flooring).
I just finished taking apart a 25 years old rusty Westfalia Syncro and all the cabinets are dry and fits just like when they left the factory. Unbelievable quality.

I am not sure about the new ones, but my 1987 Sportsmobile had glue and staples everywhere. It was almost impossible to dissemble the interior without breaking stuff.

My sister Palomino camper too. This one dissembled by itself after a few trips..

 

[drodio]

@Captm, awesome comments! My comparison stems mainly from the XP's use of a composite monocoque shell both inside and out, the use of marine-grade appliances, and the general build quality as I outlined in a bunch of examples in my original post.

Yes, I suppose yachts would have staples & glue, but they're also built to stand up to the nemesis of any camper: Water, and the XP's ability to do that better than other campers due to its composite monocoque shell is something I was stressing.

My experience with boats/yachts is surely more limited than yours -- to chartering bareboat cats, which the XP has much more of a likeness to (for the reasons I listed above) than other campers we evaluated. But the more apt comparison might be that the "XP is more comparable to a racing/cruising sailboat" than a yacht. Works for me.

 

[Keyne]

Thank you for your interesting opinion piece and the invite for comment. It was a fun read and I knew the comments to follow would likewise be interesting. Your assertion that, "To sum up the differences in one sentence, an XP Camper is built like a yacht; other campers are built with staples and glue." brings several questions to mind but just a couple for now. 1. What is your experience in yacht building? 2. When you say that, " other campers are built with staples and glue" why didn't you name them specifically instead of leaving the reader to conclude that you meant the brands that you refered to in your second paragraph, "We evaluated Sportsmobile, FourWheelCampers, Hallmark, Earthroamer, Phoenix, Outfitter, even going to Colorado to see all of the shops." You do realize that "staples and glue" are used on yachts, and the XP is more comparable to a racing/cruising sailboat as Earthroamer is to a yacht, right?

Well back to work - it's my watch on the helm.
Cheers:088:

I bet staples and glues are used in almost any yacht or camper but I think what he was trying to point out is that the XP doesn't rely on those for the majority of the build process. The cabinets, cabinet doors, floor hatches, etc. are molded in a way that would be better than just using the typical (IMO cheap) build processes used in most RV construction today. He mentioned that it is a difference that he liked about the XP compared to the other brands (although I thought Earthroamer didn't use the typical RV construction either).

There are several posts on the SMB and Phoenix forums, blogs, etc. that highlight the staple, glue, fastener construction that can and has caused reliability issues down the road. To educate yourself on what he meant, you could check out the popup forum on this site and the post from the guy with the Taco and a Phoenix pop-up.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/119653-My-Taco-Phoenix-Pop-Up-Camper

If you look at the pictures and compare those to the photos taken at XP by the original poster you can see what he means.

Also, regarding yachts. To help, maybe he should list some brands of yachts that he would compare to an XP? Just comparing sailboats (not motorboats/yachts mind you just to specific). For instance, a Hunter and Catalina are like Phoenix and SMB and Morris and J-Boats are more akin to Earthroamer and XP? I am sure glue and staples are used in both level of yachts but the difference in build quality is very different (hulls, cabinetry, appliances, system installations, etc.). Just walking aboard these boats give you a feeling for the difference in quality (and price!), however looking deeper into the cabinets, systems, etc. you can really see the difference where it counts. IMO that is what the OP was getting at.

Also, one point that probably should be made is the number of units produced each year. I would think XP produces fewer units per year than SMB or Phoenix.

 

[ZukiCAMPER]

Comparing an XP to yacht is a joke. If any yacht were built the way that the XP camper was that I had the unfortunate opportunity of getting very familiar with, It would be parked with the Titanic at the bottom of the ocean.

There were basic engineering design problems on all of the exterior hatches that any freshmen engineering student could tell you exactly where they WILL crack and break. All of the hatches on the unit I worked with were crack.


As for the quality control. The entry door on the unit I'm that I'm familiar with sealed so poorly that the occupant need not worry about mosquitos but instead small critters could get through the 1/2" gap at the door seal.

This is just my 2 cents as an engineer. But if I were to purchase a $65000 truck camper I would hope that the door stop on the entry door isn't when the door binds on the hinges so it rips the screws out of the fiberglass "monocoque" that everyone has their pants in a bunch about?

My opinion of the entire product- Absolutely fantastic awesome idea, poor execution.

 

[Keyne]

Comparing an XP to yacht is a joke. If any yacht were built the way that the XP camper was that I had the unfortunate opportunity of getting very familiar with, It would be parked with the Titanic at the bottom of the ocean.

There were basic engineering design problems on all of the exterior hatches that any freshmen engineering student could tell you exactly where they WILL crack and break. All of the hatches on the unit I worked with were crack.


As for the quality control. The entry door on the unit I'm that I'm familiar with sealed so poorly that the occupant need not worry about mosquitos but instead small critters could get through the 1/2" gap at the door seal.

This is just my 2 cents as an engineer. But if I were to purchase a $65000 truck camper I would hope that the door stop on the entry door isn't when the door binds on the hinges so it rips the screws out of the fiberglass "monocoque" that everyone has their pants in a bunch about?

My opinion of the entire product- Absolutely fantastic awesome idea, poor execution.

Interesting. I haven't seen their operation, just going off what has been written/reviewed but your comment in addition to the Ujoint experience are concerning regarding the build quality of the top. Personally I like the V2 design better with the hard top so I wonder if that is an improvement over the original.