Survival Sack: When things go bad...

Lynn

Expedition Leader
ZooJunkie said:
Magnesium flint and a wad of steel wool. Strike the flint against the steel wool.

Again, I'd like to add my $.02...

Use fine (000) steel wool for the best results. Personally, I like the Vaseline and cotton balls better.

Also, I know we are talking about a bag to take when you abandon your vehicle, but if you are still near your vehicle, or happen to have a large lantern battery, stretch the steel wool between the battery posts and it will light right up. The old Boy Scout books say that two D-cells will work, but I never could get it to.
 

ZooJunkie

Explorer
Lynn said:
Again, I'd like to add my $.02...

Use fine (000) steel wool for the best results. Personally, I like the Vaseline and cotton balls better.

Also, I know we are talking about a bag to take when you abandon your vehicle, but if you are still near your vehicle, or happen to have a large lantern battery, stretch the steel wool between the battery posts and it will light right up. The old Boy Scout books say that two D-cells will work, but I never could get it to.
Yup! Forgot to mention the grade of steel wool. thanks!
 

Lynn

Expedition Leader
Here's a little trick I wanted to pass on, as well:

Several people have mentioned the magnesium match. No-one should be without one. Ever. I've used one quite a bit, and refined my technique.

Fire starting basics: You gather your wood (about five times as much as you need), hunt down some good tender, build a 'bird's nest' of coarse tender, put fine tender in the middle, scrape some magnesium into the center of that, put your striker close, scrape your knife edge over the striker, and your follow-through knocks the 'bird's nest' flying... Or at least that's the way it used to go for me. If it didn't go flying, the blow would, at least, knock the magnesium filings out of their neat little pile.

Then I said to myself, I said, "Self, there has to be a better way." So I reversed the striking part of the process. I still hold the striker and knife edge the same way, except instead of pushing the knife edge DOWN with my right hand I pull the striker UP with my left hand, so that the momentum is in a safe direction. Kinda awkward, but it works much better.

Now, can I give my thoughts on 'traditional' (pre-Zippo) fire starting?

Hijack Alert! Hijack Alert!

1. If you know how to use a bow-drill, and want a fire by nightfall, start drilling about 8AM. The old Indian movies make it look like it takes about 3 passes of the bow to get a bon fire. At least SurvivorMan and Bear Grylls make it look a lot tougher, but they still must practice a lot, and bring along their own kiln-dried spindle and hearth. From my experience, picking up sticks in the forest to use, after what seems like an hour of pumping, you get a wisp of smoke. Don't get excited; just keep going. You should be engulfed in smoke before you stop drilling and start looking for that elusive ember. The good thing about a bow drill is that the exercise will keep you warm while you are trying to get that mythical ember (possibly all night). The best luck I've had was way back in my Boy Scout days, using an official Boy Scout bow drill (again, kiln-dried wood). I started three fires during a Saturday Jamboree, and I was completely tuckered. Also, rather than taking the ember to the tender, I place the tender bundle under the 'hearth' of the bow drill, so that once the smoke is rolling all I have to do is pick the whole thing up and start blowing on it, hearth and all.

2. So you want to be a mountain man? Get an old file and break off about 3". This is your steel, and nothing works better. Take it out in the woods and wander around picking up rocks. Keep an eye out for glassy looking rocks like obsidian, quartz, and, of course, flint... Marble even works, but tends to shower pieces of rock along with the sparks. When you find a good looking rock stick it in your pocket, then find half a dozen or so more, just in case. Break them so you have nice sharp edges to work with, but they're still big enough to hang on to. Now test them by striking the sharp edge of the rock against the file, using a glancing blow along the edge of the file. You should, of course, see sparks, but don't hope for the shower of sparks you're used to from your commercial metal match. Next, get yerself an old pint-sized paint can, and put a nail hole in the center of the lid. Gather up a bunch of thin cotton cloth (100% cotton. Old bed sheets work well. New bed sheets work just as well, but don't get caught!), cut the cloth into 3" squares, stack 'em neatly, and put 'em in the can. Put the lid on the can, nice and tight, and throw it in the fire (obviously, you need to plan ahead. If you wait 'til you need a fire, you're not going to have the fire to throw the can in!) and let it bake for a few hours. You should see a thin blue flame shooting out of the nail hole from the hot gasses escaping. Since you are preping this ahead of time, you can throw it in your wood stove overnight, but then you don't get to see that cool flame. After a few hours take the can out of the fire (after the flame goes out, or after the fire burns out), let 'er cool, and open 'er up. You will have a nice pile of charred cloth. Store it some place where it won't get wet. Prep your 'bird's nest' of tender, and set it on the ground beside you. Take another handful of the tender and rub it between your hands so that a bunch of the powdered tender falls in the middle of the bird's nest. Kneel or sit with a piece of the charred cloth on your knee (if you're wearing shorts, I'd put something between your knee and the cloth :) ), and strike the flint against the file in a manner that directs the sparks toward the cloth. If you've done everything right, one of the sparks will 'light' on the cloth long enough, and you will see a small glowing circle on the cloth. Blow lightly on the red circle, and as the circle starts to grow, continue blowing on it as you transfer the cloth to the middle of your 'bird's nest'. Roll the edges up around it, and start blowing through the nest, soft but steady. Hold it up at an angle so that the smoke doesn't make you cry, but not above you where burning embers 'll get ya. As the smoke builds, blow harder. Soon the whole thing will erupt in fire, and you'll find yourself with a handful of burning tender, wondering why you didn't get some firewood ready...
 
Last edited:

HenryJ

Expedition Leader
ZooJunkie said:
I have a fire starter kit that no one has mentioned.

Magnesium flint and a wad of steel wool. Strike the flint against the steel wool. Burning steel wool is much harder to extinguish in wet weather. Excellent all around fire starter, and much longer lasting and foolproof than a box of waterproof matches. Ultimately more wind resistant too.
Would that work soaked in Vaseline? I would have a problem with the steel wool rusting if exposed to moisture, if not treated in some way or sealed very well in an airtight container. Especially in long term storage.
The Vaseline soaked cotton balls could also have some firstaid uses. I like multiple applications for a packed item. Thus reducing load and maximizing resources.

LUISJG said:
That has the Blastmatch I use. It sends an awesome shower of sparks easily with one hand. I could not justify the rest of it. Vaseline soaked cotton balls seemed much more cost effective. The mirror, whistle and cable saw are items that I would rather hand choose. The cable saw I would want to try before purchase as they can be really lousy. I'd rather have a good axe.
 
Last edited:

Lynn

Expedition Leader
HenryJ said:
Would that work soaked in Vaseline?

Hmmm, never tried that. Personally, I'm happy with the cotton balls and Vaseline. Steel wool burns pretty fast. But maybe the Vaseline would slow it down. The cotton balls burn kinda like a candle, (the cotton acts as a wick) but with more flame.
 

calamaridog

Expedition Leader
Lynn said:
PowerBars are great, unless you're out in the cold, then they get so hard as to be un-eatable. Of course, you can stick 'em down your pants to warm them up, but Clif and Peak bars are much better in cold weather, besides just plain tasting better. I like the Clif bars, myself.

I think those really dense bars suck. You need to drink about a quart of water for each one you eat. Not an ideal food source in many survival situations. The bars that are more like regular food are much more practical, in my opinion.
 

calamaridog

Expedition Leader
mcvickoffroad said:
Another thought is to keep your pack as a dedicated Survival Sack, don't use its contents for general use. This may mean purchasing two or three of something like a headlamp or flashlight. If you only have one headlamp and you keep it in your Survival Sack but then take it out to use it for general purposes you then need to remember to put it back in the pack and that is a risk of forgetting.

I think this is key if you want to keep an actual dedicated "bug-out bag". You have to remember to repack every year with fresh food, batteries, etc.

LED flashlights and headlamps that use AAA or AA batteries are great for this type of bag. Rechargeable flashlights and ones using fancy batteries are not as practical.

I keep one general survival bag ready for my wife and kid and another with ammunition, holster, etc. for her use.

I keep a work bag with all my police equipment handy. When I use something it is immediately replaced.

I keep two dayhiking bags with essentials handy in the truck. When I use something, I replace it. One is for longer trips, one is for short runs/hikes/bike rides.
 

big sky trapper

Adventurer
2. So you want to be a mountain man? Get an old file and break off about 3". This is your steel, and nothing works better. Take it out in the woods and wander around picking up rocks. Keep an eye out for glassy looking rocks like obsidian, quartz, and, of course, flint... Marble even works, but tends to shower pieces of rock along with the sparks. When you find a good looking rock stick it in your pocket, then find half a dozen or so more, just in case. Break them so you have nice sharp edges to work with, but they're still big enough to hang on to. Now test them by striking the sharp edge of the rock against the file, using a glancing blow along the edge of the file. You should, of course, see sparks, but don't hope for the shower of sparks you're used to from your commercial metal match. Next, get yerself an old pint-sized paint can, and put a nail hole in the center of the lid. Gather up a bunch of thin cotton cloth (100% cotton. Old bed sheets work well. New bed sheets work just as well, but don't get caught!), cut the cloth into 3" squares, stack 'em neatly, and put 'em in the can. Put the lid on the can, nice and tight, and throw it in the fire (obviously, you need to plan ahead. If you wait 'til you need a fire, you're not going to have the fire to throw the can in!) and let it bake for a few hours. You should see a thin blue flame shooting out of the nail hole from the hot gasses escaping. Since you are preping this ahead of time, you can throw it in your wood stove overnight, but then you don't get to see that cool flame. After a few hours take the can out of the fire (after the flame goes out, or after the fire burns out), let 'er cool, and open 'er up. You will have a nice pile of charred cloth. Store it some place where it won't get wet. Prep your 'bird's nest' of tender, and set it on the ground beside you. Take another handful of the tender and rub it between your hands so that a bunch of the powdered tender falls in the middle of the bird's nest. Kneel or sit with a piece of the charred cloth on your knee (if you're wearing shorts, I'd put something between your knee and the cloth :) ), and strike the flint against the file in a manner that directs the sparks toward the cloth. If you've done everything right, one of the sparks will 'light' on the cloth long enough, and you will see a small glowing circle on the cloth. Blow lightly on the red circle, and as the circle starts to grow, continue blowing on it as you transfer the cloth to the middle of your 'bird's nest'. Roll the edges up around it, and start blowing through the nest, soft but steady. Hold it up at an angle so that the smoke doesn't make you cry, but not above you where burning embers 'll get ya. As the smoke builds, blow harder. Soon the whole thing will erupt in fire, and you'll find yourself with a handful of burning tender, wondering why you didn't get some firewood ready...[/QUOTE]

Heres some pic's to go with that....
_wsb_150x137_char+uncooked.JPG
_wsb_148x144_char+grill.JPG
_wsb_158x130_char+cooking.JPG
_wsb_254x203_flintsteel.JPG
SPARKS+2.JPG

fire+4.JPG
_wsb_274x190_fire+6.JPG




Step by step on making Char cloth. The best char material I found so far is 30 cal military cleaning 2 1/2 sq or so patches. their a cotton/linen blend thats holds a spark unlike anything and burn slow but do they burn hot!. try em. (side note...Cannot find any historical documentation on its use....) But its accepted. If your getting flames comming out the can slow down the cooking....

The beginings of my AMM/MT Freetrappers educational project....
 

offroad_nomad

Adventurer
Yes, when we teach fire building during our winter survival field exercises, dryer lint is one of the fire staring materials we instruct students to use.

j_nigrelli said:
anybody ever use dryer lint? that'll burn pretty well (don't ask...)
 

Grim Reaper

Expedition Leader
I have most of this stuff in my truck but not in one spot. Where I wheel its not likely I will ever fall through the ice and other then fire I can't see needing to get it out super fast.

My last truck I had a back pack strapped to the back of the passenger seat. The seat swiveled so it wasn't in the way of people getting in the back seat. It contained a waterproof first aid kit, flash light, maps, a couple rain ponchos and a couple rain suits (the real thin ones) and a survival knife with matches in the waterproof handle.

This truck just doesn't have the room to hang it on the seat but I really should make a place for it up front and start using it again.
 

SEREvince

Adventurer
I might have mentioned that I am a SERE Specialist for the USAF. That's Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape. I've taught at the Arctic, Water and Combat Survival Schools for about 10 years combined and have been running "refresher" type training for the last 3 years. http://www.gosere.com/

I've tested just about every survival item under the sun all over this planet. We continually seek out the latest and greatest to see how it holds up. If you have questions on specific items, post em up. If I have used it I'll let you know what my professional opinion is.

Most of your kits look pretty good. I would add a wool or poly pro watch cap to everyone’s list. Also some water purification chemical, whatever floats your boat. Also several semi transparent trash bags for vegetation/transpiration bags. A long burning candle is great as well.

Sat out a high desert spring snow storm wrapped in a casualty blanket (nice space blanket) with a long burning candle lit underneath me (think tiny one man tee pee/sweat lodge). Kept toasty warm and dry with no prep.

The stuff from Ultimate Survival and Equipped is all good kit.

My own personal carry knife is the larger Doug Ritter Benchmade folder. http://www.equipped.com/rsk_mk1.htm

The blast match from ultimate survival does have a known flaw the small striker routinely goes AWOL. Still works with a knife you just lose the one handed function. I personally don't like it since unless you have a solid platform you end up crushing your tinder into the ground/snow. http://www.ultimatesurvival.com/product_view.cfm?product_line_ID=156

Learn/practice all of the primitive fire making methods... and then leave them all at home and bring some waterproof strike anywhere matches, lighter and "metal match". I can and have made fires using any primitive method you have heard of and then some, and a lighter will smoke all of em. If you apply the principles you learned when you made your bamboo fire saw or whatever to every fire then that lighter and matches will last through more fires than you'll build in a life time.

My advice is keep the basics on your person and then equip a bag with your normal kit. Don't go overboard and don't count on anything that isn't on your person.

Sat phones are cool, but I have been left high and very dry by them in the past. Make sure you program in the pertinent numbers i.e. rescue agencies in the area or if overseas consulates, embassies, ICRC etc.

Oh and for you gadget folks, word from other SERE Specialists is that visible (green) lasers are awesome for night time signaling. I haven't tested it but other folks are already packing them. Cool idea for when fire isn't possible.http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=jmm6360&BusType=BtoC&Count1=163784205&Count2=80924630&ProductID=52&Target=products%2Easp

Cheers

Vince
 
Last edited:

teotwaki

Excelsior!
I keep my lighter on a neck lanyard with a whistle, chapstick and sometimes a compass. In cold weather the lighter will be kept warm enough to function well.
 

robert

Expedition Leader
Honestly, the best fire starter out there is an old fashion road flare; I keep several in my truck and in my kits. Orion makes/used to make(?) small flares listed as emergency fire starters for just this purpose.

When your bow man tips the canoe over in near freezing river water and you drag it to the shore the last thing you want to be doing is futzing with matches, lighters, flints, etc. (honestly, he tipped it over not me I promise). Take your shaky handed freezin' self and gather whatever wood you can grab (wet or dry, just not completely soaked), pile it up, strike the Fusee and stick it in the middle of the pile- it will light it. They are much, much easier to light with numb hands than any small lighter, etc and they immediately give off lots of heat. You just have to be careful not to burn yourself.

Yes, I also keep several fire starting methods handy for non-emergencies. I personally like my Brunton Helios lighter- much easier than a Hershey bar and a Coke can (yes, you can start a fire that way!).
 

Forum statistics

Threads
186,890
Messages
2,889,002
Members
227,437
Latest member
Top Jimmy
Top