Tired of Old Junk but no Interest in Newer 4x4s

[XJLI]

Never had a problem with my two 4.0 powered jeeps over 200k+ very hard combined miles that I didn't create myself.

parts go bad often, but they're cheap AF. Like $65 for an alternator, $10 for a TPS sensor cheap.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

New vehicles are far more hassle. At least with old vehicles the hassles are all predictable and avoidable with a proper maintenance budget. But the issues with new vehicles are often a computer geek malfunction that puts you in limp mode when everything mechanical is perfect. If you have a carb and it goes into limp mode..... drain the sediment bowl.

I think the notion of new cars constantly having electrical gremlins might be a bit overblown, and anyway that's what a warranty is for.

At least I wouldn't be nervous taking a new car on a longer trip like I am with the LC. I've got another unexplained coolant loss after replacing nearly all my hoses, just praying it isn't the head gasket.

After owing one I wouldn't say the 80 series is exceptionally reliable either, it's just so durable that even when things break it somehow keeps groaning along like an old tractor ..

In fact the whole 300k km rebuild interval suggested by Toyota seems very outdated nowadays. You don't see people tearing down a 3.5l in a Tacoma to the short block as part f some planned maintenance. I wonder if they put a 1fz in a new truck today if it'd be considered a good engine, or reliable?

 

[BigOrca]

I think the notion of new cars constantly having electrical gremlins might be a bit overblown, and anyway that's what a warranty is for.

At least I wouldn't be nervous taking a new car on a longer trip like I am with the LC. I've got another unexplained coolant loss after replacing nearly all my hoses, just praying it isn't the head gasket.

After owing one I wouldn't say the 80 series is exceptionally reliable either, it's just so durable that even when things break it somehow keeps groaning along like an old tractor ..

I know the feeling. I had an 01 Duramax that I loved when it was working. It was definitely no frills, but pulled like a freight train and sounded cool. But it was a 20 year old vehicle made on the cutting edge of technology at the time, and when problems appeared so did large bills. I sold it and replaced it with a Power Wagon. It is capable almost to the point of being boring, and it is a bit "soulless". I get where you're coming from about newer vehicles, and a car note sucks, but I can get in it and go pretty much anywhere I want without worrying. (So long as I keep gas in the tank) My point is that if the goal at the end of the day is to get out and explore, a new vehicle leaves a lot more time to do just that. Projects are fun, until they're not.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

95k trouble free miles and drove and shifted like a truck from the 60s.

I think his point is that they are low tech... not that they are reliable.

I took the comment above to speak toward reliability.

I thought the TJs were supposed to be better with that bombproof 4.0 straight six, kind of like a 3FE but more power. Sure the Dana 30s aren't great, but there's not that much to go wrong on one of those.

Funny you say that. The 4.0L was the only good thing in that Jeep. The transmission, transfer case and rear end all needed to be replaced...

The 4.0L in my WJ never gave me grief either. Actually the only issue I ever had with the WJ was a blown fuse causing a no start once and the water pump went out...

 

[XJLI]

In fact the whole 300k km rebuild interval suggested by Toyota seems very outdated nowadays. You don't see people tearing down a 3.5l in a Tacoma to the short block as part of some planned maintenance. I wonder if they put a 1fz in a new truck today if it'd be considered a good engine, or reliable, in the context of modern machining techniques and QC practices?

Toyota QC and reliability was mind-blowing in the 80s and early 90s when domestics were getting tossed in the crusher at 100k miles. Everyone else caught up, and its not a big deal anymore. Imagine buying a new truck and the salesman says, "At 175,000 miles you just rebuild the motor and it'll do another 175 no problem!" You'd laugh your way out the door and buy something else. Modern trucks go 300k miles with just oil changes, and half a million is the new 250k.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

I took the comment above to speak toward reliability.


Funny you say that. The 4.0L was the only good thing in that Jeep. The transmission, transfer case and rear end all needed to be replaced...

The 4.0L in my WJ never gave me grief either. Actually the only issue I ever had with the WJ was a blown fuse causing a no start once and the water pump went out...

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I think the transmissions in those are actually Aisin units, usually pretty stout. but yea with old jeeps there's a lot of little nickel and dime repairs, but is it really that much worse than an old Toyota?

Same with old Land Rovers like The Disco 1. I question whether they're really as bad as people say. You see a lot of people doing "just maintenance" on their old LCs and minitrucks on the forums.

 

[XJLI]

I think the transmissions in those are actually Aisin units, usually pretty stout. but yea with old jeeps there's a lot of little nickel and dime repairs, but is it really that much worse than an old Toyota?

The Aisin trans only went in the XJ. Everything else got the 32RH or 42RE auto behind the straight six.

Same with old Land Rovers like The Disco 1. I question whether they're really as bad as people say. You see a lot of people doing "just maintenance" on their old LCs and minitrucks on the forums.

EXACTLY!

 

[rruff]

Modern trucks go 300k miles with just oil changes, and half a million is the new 250k.

Very few actually make it that far, though. There are more than just engine overhauls to consider... many expensive parts. There is a point where it isn't worth it anymore...

 

[Todd n Natalie]

I think the transmissions in those are actually Aisin units, usually pretty stout. but yea with old jeeps there's a lot of little nickel and dime repairs, but is it really that much worse than an old Toyota?

Same with old Land Rovers like The Disco 1. I question whether they're really as bad as people say. You see a lot of people doing "just maintenance" on their old LCs and minitrucks on the forums.

Nah. My FJ80 was constantly giving me grief too.

I wonder about the old rovers too. I've always had a softspot for the Disco's but the those rumors always kept me away. My XJ6 was another POS. so that scared me off British stuff as it lived up to it's reputation, haha

 

[Todd n Natalie]

Very few actually make it that far, though. There are more than just engine overhauls to consider... many expensive parts. There is a point where it isn't worth it anymore...

Yep. I've gotten rid of more vehicles cause they've nickeled and dimed me vs ones I drove into the ground and ended up in a scrapyard.

 

[XJLI]

I wonder about the old rovers too. I've always had a softspot for the Disco's but the those rumors always kept me away. My XJ6 was another POS. so that scared me off British stuff as it lived up to it's reputation, haha

Nothing got under my skin more than my Disco did. I miss it. I'd still be driving a D1 (or RRC) if I didn't have a kid, but the crash safety pushed me into a newer one. The LR4 is pretty boss, though.

 

[Regcabguy]

Toyota QC and reliability was mind-blowing in the 80s and early 90s when domestics were getting tossed in the crusher at 100k miles. Everyone else caught up, and its not a big deal anymore. Imagine buying a new truck and the salesman says, "At 175,000 miles you just rebuild the motor and it'll do another 175 no problem!" You'd laugh your way out the door and buy something else. Modern trucks go 300k miles with just oil changes, and half a million is the new 250k.

Myself and three friends had 1985 Toyota trucks. They all consumed 2.5 qts of oil every 3K. Toyota wouldn't touch them saying it was "within specs." One of the owners walked up and down the sidewalk in front of Toyota of Carlsbad with a sign reading "Does your Toyota truck eat oil?" After five days of part time picketing the owner came out and said the dealership was installing a new shortblock at their expense. Once again Toyota wouldn't touch it. My buddy spoke the tech in the service bay doing the work. "Toyota's got a problem with the rings not providing enough tension not hugging the cylinders and won't own up to it.I'm seeing them frequently". Stuff happens but I would have thought Toyota would help us. I traded it in on a 3500 Chevy. No issues at all with many Baja trips and sold it for my Ram Cummins. I think Toyota makes the best engineered and reliable vehicles in the world but the sting is still with me.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

Myself and three friends had 1985 Toyota trucks. They all consumed 2.5 qts of oil every 3K. Toyota wouldn't touch them saying it was "within specs." One of the owners walked up and down the sidewalk in front of Toyota of Carlsbad with a sign reading "Does your Toyota truck eat oil?" After five days of part time picketing the owner came out and said the dealership was installing a new shortblock at their expense. Once again Toyota wouldn't touch it. My buddy spoke the tech in the service bay doing the work. "Toyota's got a problem with the rings not providing enough tension not hugging the cylinders and won't own up to it.I'm seeing them frequently". Stuff happens but I would have thought Toyota would help us. I traded it in on a 3500 Chevy. No issues at all with many Baja trips and sold it for my Ram Cummins. I think Toyota makes the best engineered and reliable vehicles in the world but the sting is still with me.

Was that a 22re? That has to be one of the most overrated engines. They had timing chain issues as well, not uncommon to see them with burnt valves and dead cylinders as well.

 

[rruff]

Myself and three friends had 1985 Toyota trucks. They all consumed 2.5 qts of oil every 3K.

Wow... must have been a bad year. I had a '84 and a '86 and they never consumed much.

Was that a 22re? That has to be one of the most overrated engines. They had timing chain issues as well, not uncommon to see them with burnt valves and dead cylinders as well.

They went to a single row chain and plastic guides in '84... and they did not "last forever". Fortunately my '84 still had the extended cover from the 22r so I had room to install the old chain and guides at ~200k miles. Besides the oil pressure sender exploding and dumping all the oil ~80k miles, that was the only engine issue I had in 250k hard miles. It was losing compression in the cylinder closest to the cab at the end though.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

Wow... must have been a bad year. I had a '84 and a '86 and they never consumed much.



They went to a single row chain and plastic guides in '84... and they did not "last forever". Fortunately my '84 still had the extended cover from the 22r so I had room to install the old chain and guides at ~200k miles. Besides the oil pressure sender exploding and dumping all the oil ~80k miles, that was the only engine issue I had in 250k hard miles. It was losing compression in the cylinder closest to the cab at the end though.

Yeah they're still solid engines for their day, but I don't think they deserve their "unkillable" legend. They're very much killable.

I also still lke the 1fz-fe even with all its flaws and quirks, but people talk about them like they were hand-built by angels or something.