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We hear anything on shocks Chris?
And an unrelated question. I know your install instructions mention trimming the front engine cross member by what looks to be about 1 1/2". On a 6" lift is that REALLY critical? Could I get away with dropping the bump stops if necessary, or am I going to have to suck it up and chop it? I'm hoping to avoid that if I can.
And an unrelated question. I know your install instructions mention trimming the front engine cross member by what looks to be about 1 1/2". On a 6" lift is that REALLY critical? Could I get away with dropping the bump stops if necessary, or am I going to have to suck it up and chop it? I'm hoping to avoid that if I can.
ujoint
Supporting Sponsor
They're on order, playing the waiting game.
Depends the interior and rust. We usually have to cut and destroy at least one body bolt. And if the van has a full camper style interior its generally not worth the trouble to remove everything.
151fab
Observer
I asked the same question when I started my 8" build up and Chris said it needed to be done so I did. Now that the van's weight is resting on the axles I can see why it is necessary. I probably would have even gone back and trimmed a bit more in one spot but i went through the trouble of welding a strip of 3/16 to re-cap the cut off area so it resembled the original lip and I don't want to undo that work.
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Maybe I'll see it when I get my axle hung, but right now I'm just not getting it. I get how at 4" you might need to do something. I dont get how at 6" you still need the same, and at 8" you could feel that you need more, while 4" is getting by at half the lift. See where I'm going?
If 1 1/2" of trimming works at 4" of lift, why do you still have to trim at 2"-4" of additional lift?
If 1 1/2" of trimming works at 4" of lift, why do you still have to trim at 2"-4" of additional lift?
151fab
Observer
Because no matter the lift the hope is that the spring and its axle, upon full compression, leads to the same final location.
In other words, 8" lift would give you more compression travel, in theory. Of course this is at the most extreme instance and probably not often occurring but why would you ever want to limit it if you didn't have to.
In other words, 8" lift would give you more compression travel, in theory. Of course this is at the most extreme instance and probably not often occurring but why would you ever want to limit it if you didn't have to.
ohpyramids
Adventurer
My front tires rubbing are on the springs on both sides before full lock. Does anyone run wheel spacers on the front axle? If so- what size? I have a D60 Ujoint kit with 315 cooper st maxx and method nv wheels.
bknudtsen
Expedition Leader
The chop is pretty straight-forward. In the grand scheme of the entire conversion, it's a minor effort.
Without going into the detail of all that, this rig will never be a rock crawler, at least in my hands, so I dont see that amount of compression going on. I've got a fairly flexy CJ riding on 37s and while at times I might see that amount of compression at one spring or the other, I dont think I've ever seen that much movement at the differential, which I assume is where the concern is.
Generally when one side is compressing the other side is rising and the axle moves almost as if its pivoting in the middle. In other words it doesnt go up/down much at all. I know the diff isnt in the center so it does rise/fall, but not as much as the tire will. Its pretty hard to eat up that much suspension travel, overall. Bah, hard to explain what I'm really trying to describe.
I'll do what I always do. Put it together and bust out the tow motor and pick one side at a time till the opposite tire just leaves the ground. Then I'll know exactly how much everything moves and I can adjust accordingly.
My CJ.
You'll notice the front is over compressed in order to eat up that much travel. This was before bump stops were extended to stop the springs from going into negative arch. Bad mojo for a spring.
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BajaSportsmobile
Baja Ironman
At that point it will be hard to do the work with the axle, springs, steering, track bar... all in the way.
The fact that every converter has to do this, it doesn't convince you?
No offense to anyone involved but no, it doesnt. I can certainly understand and believe that at 4" it needs to be done. I understnad compression and clearance issues and all that. I dont understand that at double (or more ) of that 4" I still NEED to trim the same amount. I also understand the other post about wanting the diff to compress to the same place in spite of the additional lift, but my general experience in standard lifts is that is usually not the case. I'm assuming the springs with this kit are getting their additional lift through a combo of more leaves and more arch. Since as far as I know the mounting point for the rear of the spring is staying the same that means the arch is coming without the benefit of any additional spring length. A short high arch spring is not going to be able to compress as well as a longer spring providing the same lift, but needing less severe arch to do it.
I'm sure you've seen the show trucks with leaf springs providing some ridiculous amount of lift, yet they are mounted in the factory (or near) location. The springs have so much arch they practically look like a u-bolt. They wont be doing much flexing.
Please do not take any of this as a cut at Chris and his work. It has been outstanding and saved me a boatload of time from not having to do any research or fab myself. But sometimes in order to be a kit, and be simple, compromises have to be made. There is only so much he can do with the mounting points of the springs and keep everything bolt on and factory looking. He's constrained by what he's working with. It's one of the reasons why he's had to shift the axle forward on the spring instead of leaving it more or less centered. That means his spring length is pretty much fixed. When I say length I'm talking eye to eye as it sits btw, not the length if you squashed it flat then measured. If it changes too much you cant use the same frame mounting points across all lift heights, at least not and maintain anything resembling ride quality.
Anyway, yes, I'm going to wait and see what it looks like when I get the axle hung and I can flex it a bit. Steering and track bar need not be hooked up solid for that so getting anything out of the way if I do need to cut is no big deal. And as I said, if I can I'd rather extend the bump stops to avoid any contact.
Feel free to consider me stubborn and unreasonable. I'd totally agree.
At this point I'm going to be done with this. I dont want to clutter up the Ujor thread any more than I already have. If I have to trim so be it, if not hurray for me, but no reason to mess up his place with all my silliness. Hehe.
ujoint
Supporting Sponsor
yes, backspacing and tire width have a lot to do with this. Simple solution though, drill & tap the steering stop on the knuckles or weld them up until it stops rubbing.
ujoint
Supporting Sponsor
The x-member is a limiter on all of these solid axle 4x4 van conversions when it comes to up travel so cutting as much as you can is always a good idea. It does't hurt anything so why not. That x-member is beefy since the suspension pivots from it while stock so integrity isn't an issue. Like Baja said, you won't want to do it later! No fun.
The reason I move the axle forward is for better steering geometry and to run larger tires with less lift while still being able to articulate without tire eating fender (or vice versa!)