Unimogadventures - Our build and travel thread

Iain_U1250

Explorer
Diplostrat, I would consider that very reasonable. :)

We have 175W of alternator( although 55w OEM apparent puts out 80A at higher rpm), 300AH batteries, 340W of solar on the roof, and a 250W movable panel. Once we figure out what is required, we may fit another 150AH of batteries as we have the space, but were not sure if we needed it.


Rob, for $50, we thought it was worth a try, even if we just use it in the motels on or shore power.
 

alan

Explorer
Thanks, based on yours and other people recommending the induction cookers, we decide to get a cheap one off ebay - $50 for an 1800W induction cooker, this model that came recommend from a few people on the Exploroz forum.
1z.jpg


We probably have enough battery power to boil water, but not enough to cook a full meal on the induction cooker, but it will be interesting to see how much current it draws etc.

When we were travelling in our Land Rover with just a single 75AH battery used our Nespresso machine to make coffee for us each morning, and also make four coffee shots into a flash for our mid morning and afternoon ice coffee fix. The Nespresso machine draws 1300W for for about 30 seconds, and the milk frother around 500w for about 45 seconds for each cup of coffee with milk. We could only do that for if we had been driving the previous day, as if we were parked up with just our 85W solar panel recharging the battery, we would have to start the car as the inverter would drop out after the second cup of coffee. No big deal to start the car and it charge the battery up for half and hour.
LOL!! I just bought the exact same one to do some testing!!:)
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
Sum Numberz

Took an 18/8 steel sauce pan and filled it with a measured litre of water.

High thin clouds, think UK, NOT red center. :sunny:

Batteries were at 14.9v taking in a solar charge of 1.5A. TriMetric meter reading "Full".

Turned on the inverter and turned on the induction stove. Set the Temp to 240F. (The next lowest is 210F.)

The net amp draw, measured on the TriMetric jumped to 146A. :Wow1: The solar boost, measured on the Blue Sky rose to 11.8A.
The net amp draw, (induction out + solar in) rose to as high as 155A.

Got sloppy with the stop watch (sorry. :() but the time to full, rolling boil was less than six minutes.

Keep the water on the boil to simulate a pasta meal, for example.

The water stayed at the boil with the cooktop temp backed all the way down to 180F. At this point, the draw was between 85 and 90A.

A setting of 150F lost the boil, 180F restored it.

Kept the water boiling until we hit about 15 wall clock minutes. At this point the TriMetric read that the charge had dropped to 97% full.

I had wondered if the induction cooktop regulated its temp or simply pulsed on and off, like a microwave. The True Induction clearly appears to regulate the current.

So call it 15 minutes at 100A to prepare two litres of pasta. That would be somewhere between 25A and 50A.

If the lower number, that is close to my guesstimation of 30 minutes of high drain (15 minutes cooktop/15 minutes microwave) per hot meal.

The next test is recovery rate from the engine alternators. Will be wiring that up on Tuesday.
 
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DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
Yes, 12v with 110v domestic service. The batteries are four 6vx300Ah Lifeline AGM.

I am not a good enough electrician to guess the difference in demand of inverting to 240v vs. 110v. Typically, of course, 240v systems draw 1/2 the amperage of 110v systems. But if you are stepping up from 12v, then what?
 

graynomad

Photographer, traveller
Assuming inverters of the same efficiency and that all wires and connections are of an appropriate size in both cases, for my 24v system just halve the amps as you say.

Of course the 24v wires will be half the size, one reason for using 24v if it's an option.
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
It IS how big you make it!

Believe me, I am a charter member of the Size Matters school of electrical wiring! :Wow1:

I am always jealous of the tiny wires in 220v countries.
 

mogcamper

New member
I went with induction only

IMG_0163.jpg

Its two rings and I have a dedicated inverter from a 600Ah battery bank. This battery bank only powers my kitchen. I have only used it on test runs to date but it is working out well. I don't see any problems provided we don't stay in one place too long.
 

Iain_U1250

Explorer
Advice required

Hi all, just about to commit quite a bit of money in fittings and hose on my camper heating system, and what to run it by everyone to see if I have got it right, or if there is something I've missed. I want to leave the OEM system as intact as possible, so as not to cause and future cooling problems. I'm about to get some 3/4" stainless steel braided PTFE hose (SSBH) made up, two are 4.5m long, and the third is a 1.0m long. These are the hoses that connect the whole system together, they are not cheap, another bit of overkill but they have to thread their way under the truck and hard lines are too difficult (I tried) , and rubber just won't last and I don't want to replace them ever.

DSC05599.JPG


A brief description of the whole system first.

Water Cooled Turbo

OM352A engine has been a new water cooled turbo, and I need to plumb that in to the lines that feed the cab heater. The line coming off the top of the engine / water pump is the pressure line, and the one coming off the bottom of the water pump is the suction line. I have put a T into the top line going to the cab heater, and the return from the turbo goes into the main waterpipe coming from the bottom of the radiator. The Garret manual says I should connect the return of the turbo as low in the cooling system as possible, and on the return/suction side of the radiator to get a thermo-syphon effect after shut down to help cool the turbo. The hoses are near vertical the way I have plumbed them and you can't get a lower spot so it should be good. These hoses are only 10mm, that's what is specified, and I have used a silicone coated rubber hose supplied with the the turbo.

Webasto 90ST 9kw diesel heater. (90ST)

To provide a water supply to the 90ST, I put another T in the top pressure line going to the cab heater. That is feed line to the 90ST which has it's own water pump. It will normally only be running when the engine is not running, but either way, it will have enough pressure to pump water to the back of the truck through around 4.5M of SSB 3/4" PTFE hose.

Electric Booster Pump ( EBP)

In series with the 90ST, I have a Davies Craig Electric Booster pump. When the engine is running, I don't think there will be enough flow through this line to provide enough heat to the camper, especially if the cab heater is used. The EBP flows 15l per minute, and is designed especially for this. When the engine is running and we want to send the coolant to the camper, the EWP will provide the pressure to push it down the lines, a 10m circuit in total. Should it prove not to be needed, then I can always leave it switched off, or take it out.


Camper Heating System.

I have decided to go with all manual valves, I was thinking of using motorised valves but it was a bit complex and I didn't think it was worth the hassle, and I don't think I have enough space either.

The camper heating system consists of the a 20 litre calorifier to provide hot water for shower. washing up etc. This is the main circuit that will be normally open to ensure we have hot water for showers etc. Most of the time it will run off engine heat. The calorifier has an 800W electric heating element as well, so we can heat up the water from shore power if necessary. The feed to this has a 1/2" valve to control flow.


So that the priority will be the camper heater when we want it to be, a 3/4" valve controls the flow into the two 5kW fan driven heat exchangers plumbed in series. We should be able to sort out a how much we open this valve to provide just enough heat, without cooking us and everything in the cabinet. The heat exchangers have two fans each, the fans draw air into the compartment from outside (through an air filter) and blow it into the camper. The fans will be thermostatically controlled, so they switch on an off automatically in the low speed mode, I only want to run the fans at the low speed setting, as it is very quiet at that speed. I can manually override the fans to full speed if required. At full speed then fans will suck in 500m3 per hour, so at half speed, it should still be a reasonable amount of air to help control condensation. http://www.kalori.com/produit.asp?idpr=24

Finally, there is a 1/2" Stainless steel pipe loop, 2m long inside the rear compartment where the water tanks are. This is to provide some heat into this area to stop the tanks from freezing up in cold weather. I'm not sure if this is necessary, but I have done it anyway. A 1/4" valve limits the flow to this circuit when it is opened. This is also something we can set the ball valve to a certain angle to limit flow.

The return line from the camper is another 4.5M long 3/4" and returns to the main suction line at the bottom of the water pump. The water then enters the engine block, warming it up or at least stopping it from freezing.


Pipe Routing

The hot water pipe from the 90ST to the camper run right alongside the diesel fuel lines feeding the engine and the 90ST itself. I have done this that it might help with the diesel waxing in cold weather. I can run a small Facet pump that I use to prime/bleed the system and it will pump fuel around the supply circuit, through the filters, the fuel pump and back to the tank. Not sure if this is required, but it is an option to help keep the main fuel tank warm. The plan is to cable tie the supply and return fuel lines to the hot water feed pipe from the 90ST.

Both the SSBH hot water feed and return lines run next to the grey water tank. I'm not sure at this stage whether they will be in direct contact as I have not designed the grey water tank yet, but could possibly even run it through the tank itself if required, Since we don't want the tank to get very hot, the alternative is to run a loop from the return line through the tank and use a three way valve to control the flow. I have not decided on this and could be that just having the touching the tank will be enough, it depends on how cold it gets I suppose.


Problems I can see.

First one is that the when the 90ST is running, I suspect the there may be a short circuit through the turbo instead of the engine block. The pipe is pretty small in comparison to the ones through the engine block, so this may not be a problem and the water will not be hot enough to do anything to the turbo, but it may limit the effectiveness in pre-heating the engine.
.
Second is that the Cab heater is out of the loop when the 90ST is running. Apart from some complex three way valving and a load of pipes, I can't see how to fix that, I don't think it is a major problem not having the cab heater working when the engine is not running.

Finally, will heating up the diesel be a problem in hot weather? I suspect we may even get the diesel in the tank up to water temp on a long run in high temps, but maybe not. It this is a problem, then I could separate the fuel lines away, and only cable tie them together when we go to colder climates.

When the fans are not running on the heat exchangers, there may be quite a bit of residual heat inside the cabinet itself. Not too much of a problem but the main 220V inverter lives in that cabinet as well, and it doesn't like working above 50 degrees. I will insulate all the pipes running to the heat exchangers to limit this, and there will always be some air flow due to the hot air inside the cabinet rising and flowing out, but it will be pretty warm inside there. I might have to rig up sometime to turn one of the fans on if it gets too hot inside there.

The compartment with the calorifier and the manifold is in it is going to get hot, it also house the Shurflo water pumps, if it is too hot, I can move them into the boot, but would prefer to keep them where they are. I will lag the manifold and all the pipes in that compartment, but heat will always escape and there is no ventilation in that one yet, maybe I should cut a hole to allow the hot air to enter the boot area. The manifold lives under the calorifer, and it is a tight squeeze to get the pipe in, and I needed a few unions to make sure I could get it in and take it out again.

DSC05586.jpg


Don't worry, the pipes don't look that bad now, but it is a pretty small space for lot of piping under there, especially 3/4" stuff.
 

LukeH

Adventurer
Hey Iain, are you aware that with the setup you've drawn, each time you want hot water you have to heat the engine block up, even if you're not going to drive anywhere?
Also, if you want to use hot coolant from the running engine to heat your water or camper it all has to pass through the Webasto whether it's off or on.

Your 90ST needs to go between the 12v circulating pump and the 5m return line. You can then heat your camper and water in a closed off circuit without wasting heat in the engine compartment. When the time comes to preheat the engine or draw heat from the engine you can open valves to let the coolant flow to the block.
The Engine and the Webasto are two independant heat sources, they need to be in parallel, not in series.

Am I making sense?
 

Iain_U1250

Explorer
Hi Luke, what you are saying makes sense, however, if I had to bypass the engine, I would need to add a separate tank to provide additional water. The minimum for the 90ST is 6 litres. The 90ST does not like starting and stopping, uses a lot of 12v power and fuel and cause problems in the long run. I had a long talk to the techs at Webasto, they said I would be better off heating the 20lt or so of engine coolant. Alternatively I could add a 3/4" bypass line, to route most of flow around the engine, but I still need the return line to be connected to the engine for the expansion, so I will be drawing in cooler water anyway.

I also found this installation guide, and all the options are similar to the way I have plumbed it.

http://techwebasto.com/redirect/heater_main/5000994A.pdf

Most of the time we won't be in very cold county, so it will be pretty easy to warm up the block. In really cold countries, we may be running the 90ST flat out all the time, but apparently that is not a bad thing.
 

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